Harry Bloomfield verbally sodomised in
:

Shep© laid this down on his screen :
If the engine is running good and the electrodes are not adversely
worn,keep dem plugs.

I agree with that.

Plugs have only three failure modes...

1. The electrodes wear out.

2. The insulator electrically breaks down.

3. The insulator cracks allowing a compression leakage.

Sod changing them for the fun of it, just keep the gap adjusted
correctly and if you feel inclined keep a spare handy to cover the
failures.


Yes, changing plugs for fun. Says it all.

--
Phil Kyle™

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"Phil Kyle" wrote in message
.. .
Harry Bloomfield verbally sodomised in
:

Shep© laid this down on his screen :
If the engine is running good and the electrodes are not adversely
worn,keep dem plugs.

I agree with that.

Plugs have only three failure modes...

1. The electrodes wear out.

2. The insulator electrically breaks down.

3. The insulator cracks allowing a compression leakage.

Sod changing them for the fun of it, just keep the gap adjusted
correctly and if you feel inclined keep a spare handy to cover the
failures.


Yes, changing plugs for fun. Says it all.

--
Phil KyleT

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That's a spot on assessment in my view. Regular changing of spark plugs
benefits only one category of person - those who make them if you need
explanation.

In 40 odd years of motoring I have only had to change a few plugs for really
identifiable reasons i.e. the electrode was starting to disappear into the
insulator through erosion and part of the insulator cracking off and
detaching itself causing a misfire.

Bomber Command used to have a "spark plug " crew attached to every squadron,
whose duty was to clean, gap, test and stuff 'em back into the aircraft. I
think you'll agree that was a fairly critical application?

As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of the
highest order and deserves consigning to the same category as those
misinformed persons who think that paying £30 for a can of oil for their
pride and joy will make it last forever, or even make it last ANY longer.
Someday the connection between "longlife" oils and the appearance of "engine
sludging" problems may be made in the minds of the hard of thinking.

Snakey

Snakey wrote:
"Phil Kyle" wrote in message
snip.

Bomber Command used to have a "spark plug " crew attached to every squadron,
whose duty was to clean, gap, test and stuff 'em back into the aircraft. I
think you'll agree that was a fairly critical application?

snip
Snakey



yes a critical application, that was why the Merlin engine had two
spark plugs per cylinder, each fired from a separate magneto. In the
section above there was one important stage left out. namely ditch
the rejects after test failure, and failures there were. Spark plugs
do fail, and they also degrade. I used to have to record all fuel
used against miles driven for accounts purposes and as an experiment
i changed the spark plugs separately to the service(I serviced my
own vehicle) new spark plugs gave me about 2 MPG increase tank full
to tank full, replacing standard with high efficiency plugs gave me
just under 3 MPG increase. I had my own small sand blasting kit to
clean my plugs but i still had reduced efficiency on old plugs.
Spark plugs will go on for multiple thousand miles beyond nominal
replacement intervals, however there is a penalty in reduced fuel
economy.

I also used Teflon additives which gave a 1 MPG increase or
thereabouts. that was a use once and it lasted for about five oil
replacements.
Martin McGowan

Snakey wrote:

That's a spot on assessment in my view. Regular changing of spark plugs
benefits only one category of person - those who make them if you need
explanation.


Well they do eventually degrade..its actually cheaper to replace them
than to actually clean and regap them, and its a LOT cheaper to change
them once a year than get non starting car towed home or to a garage.

In 40 odd years of motoring I have only had to change a few plugs for really
identifiable reasons i.e. the electrode was starting to disappear into the
insulator through erosion and part of the insulator cracking off and
detaching itself causing a misfire.

Bomber Command used to have a "spark plug " crew attached to every squadron,
whose duty was to clean, gap, test and stuff 'em back into the aircraft. I
think you'll agree that was a fairly critical application?

Less so with 4 engines each with 12 cylinders and (not sure, 2 plugs per
cylinder?)

As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of the
highest order and deserves consigning to the same category as those
misinformed persons who think that paying £30 for a can of oil for their
pride and joy will make it last forever, or even make it last ANY longer.
Someday the connection between "longlife" oils and the appearance of "engine
sludging" problems may be made in the minds of the hard of thinking.


Well again, yes and no. Under certain conditions certain plugs will run
better than others ..if you are in the business of screwing the last
horsepower or mile per gallon out of an engine, the plugs are certainly
worth swapping around to see if a particular type works best.

Read one particular chapter of Ernest K Ganns book 'Fate is the Hunter'
for a truly terrifying tale of 'new spark plugs' in a set of engines on
an airliner.."we didn't have time to change them on the last engine,
sir" " and thank christ for that..it was the only one that ran reliably
over 3000 feet altitude"

Al spark plugs are not created equal, and they are an integral part of
engine operation.

That doesn't of course mean that Super Unobtanium Plasmaplugs are
anything more than a load of hyped up ******** of course..just that
there is some potential for them not to be.


Snakey

Martin McGowan wrote:
Snakey wrote:
"Phil Kyle" wrote in message
snip.

Bomber Command used to have a "spark plug " crew attached to every
squadron, whose duty was to clean, gap, test and stuff 'em back into
the aircraft. I think you'll agree that was a fairly critical
application?

snip
Snakey


yes a critical application, that was why the Merlin engine had two spark
plugs per cylinder, each fired from a separate magneto. In the section
above there was one important stage left out. namely ditch the rejects
after test failure, and failures there were. Spark plugs do fail, and
they also degrade. I used to have to record all fuel used against miles
driven for accounts purposes and as an experiment i changed the spark
plugs separately to the service(I serviced my own vehicle) new spark
plugs gave me about 2 MPG increase tank full to tank full, replacing
standard with high efficiency plugs gave me just under 3 MPG increase. I
had my own small sand blasting kit to clean my plugs but i still had
reduced efficiency on old plugs. Spark plugs will go on for multiple
thousand miles beyond nominal replacement intervals, however there is a
penalty in reduced fuel economy.

I also used Teflon additives which gave a 1 MPG increase or thereabouts.
that was a use once and it lasted for about five oil replacements.
Martin McGowan

Strangely enough, my brother in law who does about 60K miles a year in a
diesel, reports a similar loss in economy before a service..my guess is
clogged air filters.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Martin McGowan wrote:
Snakey wrote:
"Phil Kyle" wrote in message
snip.
snip

Spark plugs do
fail, and they also degrade. I used to have to record all fuel used
against miles driven for accounts purposes and as an experiment i
changed the spark plugs separately to the service(I serviced my own
vehicle) new spark plugs gave me about 2 MPG increase tank full to
tank full, replacing standard with high efficiency plugs gave me just
under 3 MPG increase. snip

Strangely enough, my brother in law who does about 60K miles a year in a
diesel, reports a similar loss in economy before a service..my guess is
clogged air filters.

I serviced the car without changing the spark plugs and did the tank
full to tank full readings. then i changed the spark plugs. I was
trying to see what i could economise on. the spark plugs accounted
for about half the service improvement in economy. I continued to
change spark plugs as it was financially worth it.
Martin McGowan

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

snip
Less so with 4 engines each with 12 cylinders and (not sure, 2 plugs per
cylinder?)

As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of the
highest order and deserves consigning to the same category as those
misinformed persons who think that paying £30 for a can of oil for their
pride and joy will make it last forever, or even make it last ANY longer.


Someday the connection between "longlife" oils and the appearance of
"engine sludging" problems may be made in the minds of the hard of
thinking.


I would never use a "longlife" oil. I just can't believe that such oils
behave _as well_ as normal oils, over the extended time of usage.


Well again, yes and no. Under certain conditions certain plugs will run
better than others ..if you are in the business of screwing the last
horsepower or mile per gallon out of an engine, the plugs are certainly
worth swapping around to see if a particular type works best.


The standard spark plugs fitted to new car/motorcycle engines (in the past)
were the "best compromise". Fitting a softer (hotter) plug or a harder
(cooler) one could reduce erosion of electrodes or fouling of the insulation
in some (possibly many) cases.
Can you still get the wide range of plugs that were available some years
ago, or is that now deemed unnecessary (I've been retired from the motor
trade for some time now)?

Sylvain.

Read one particular chapter of Ernest K Ganns book 'Fate is the Hunter'
for a truly terrifying tale of 'new spark plugs' in a set of engines on an
airliner.."we didn't have time to change them on the last engine, sir" "
and thank christ for that..it was the only one that ran reliably over 3000
feet altitude"

Al spark plugs are not created equal, and they are an integral part of
engine operation.

That doesn't of course mean that Super Unobtanium Plasmaplugs are anything
more than a load of hyped up ******** of course..just that there is some
potential for them not to be.


Snakey

"Snakey" wrote in
...


As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of the
highest order .................

The primary advantage that these plugs have is the smaller
centre electrode diameter, not the tip material.

A sure way to loose that edge (pun intended) is to let wear
round off the electrode. Wear on the smaller electrode is
higher than on a normal one but if iridium is really required
or if a cheaper material would be good enough might be
asked. There are, if I remember correctly, some plugs with
platinum tip that is somewhere between iridium diameter and
the standard.

To expect the manufacturer not to exaggerate the performance
or to sell a new product at anything less than the maximum
price they feel the market will accept is just naive. That does
not, IMHO, make it wrong to buy these plugs if one feels that
the possibility of less maintenance work or better performance
is worth the price.
Using them where normal plugs work perfectly might not make
engineering sense but some people like to spend money.

--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail

OH- wrote:
"Snakey" wrote in
...

As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of the
highest order .................

The primary advantage that these plugs have is the smaller
centre electrode diameter, not the tip material.

A sure way to loose that edge (pun intended) is to let wear
round off the electrode. Wear on the smaller electrode is
higher than on a normal one but if iridium is really required
or if a cheaper material would be good enough might be
asked. There are, if I remember correctly, some plugs with
platinum tip that is somewhere between iridium diameter and
the standard.

To expect the manufacturer not to exaggerate the performance
or to sell a new product at anything less than the maximum
price they feel the market will accept is just naive. That does
not, IMHO, make it wrong to buy these plugs if one feels that
the possibility of less maintenance work or better performance
is worth the price.
Using them where normal plugs work perfectly might not make
engineering sense but some people like to spend money.

One of the very few things my father actually said to me was..s

"I tried Wilkinson sword blades, and they last for a week, Gillette last
three days, but they are a third the price. I use Gillette.

The Natural Philosopher verbally sodomised in
:

OH- wrote:
"Snakey" wrote in
...

As for the copper tip/ iridium tip BS, that's just marketing crap of
the highest order .................

The primary advantage that these plugs have is the smaller
centre electrode diameter, not the tip material.

A sure way to loose that edge (pun intended) is to let wear
round off the electrode. Wear on the smaller electrode is
higher than on a normal one but if iridium is really required
or if a cheaper material would be good enough might be
asked. There are, if I remember correctly, some plugs with
platinum tip that is somewhere between iridium diameter and
the standard.

To expect the manufacturer not to exaggerate the performance
or to sell a new product at anything less than the maximum
price they feel the market will accept is just naive. That does
not, IMHO, make it wrong to buy these plugs if one feels that
the possibility of less maintenance work or better performance
is worth the price.
Using them where normal plugs work perfectly might not make
engineering sense but some people like to spend money.

One of the very few things my father actually said to me was..s

"I tried Wilkinson sword blades, and they last for a week, Gillette last
three days, but they are a third the price. I use Gillette.

Your father was a dull *******, wasn't he?

--
Phil Kyle™

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