True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.

Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

If anybody should get a knighthood for making vacuum cleaners, then it
should go to the boss of 'Numatic International', makers of the 'Henry'
and a wide range of machines for various purposes. They are a *lot*
better than Dyson's, and only half the price. Dyson's won't stand up to
commercial use.

The Anti-British Broacasting Corporation might have, to suit their
pro-US agenda,

appetite for bad news and apparent glee at bemoaning British failure,
means people switch off when success stories come about.

....but it doesn't mean the British people do.

the suck-up

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dyson gets a knighthood?
That really sucks.....
--
Col

That's your excuse for everything isn't it, being dead!

On 2006-12-31 13:43:18 +0000, "alexander.keys1"
said:


True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.

Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

Why? That's a circular argument. The jobs are not "British" as
such. This company
began manufacturing in the UK and employed British people to do the work.
Subsequently, the costs of manufacturing in the UK rose to a point
where it was no longer
tenable to manufacture here and so part was moved offshore. The
alternatives would have been:

1) Raise prices. Would the (British) consumer pay?

2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

3) Look for government subsidy. Even if that were to have happened,
one only has to look at
the tattered remains of various parts of British industry to see why it
doesn't work.




If anybody should get a knighthood for making vacuum cleaners, then it
should go to the boss of 'Numatic International', makers of the 'Henry'
and a wide range of machines for various purposes.

Why? The honour for Dyson was not for making vacuum cleaners, it was
for services to business (see Queen's List).


They are a *lot*
better than Dyson's, and only half the price.

They may or may not be, but that is not relevant.


Dyson's won't stand up to
commercial use.

They aren't sold for commercial use.




The Anti-British Broacasting Corporation might have, to suit their
pro-US agenda,

appetite for bad news and apparent glee at bemoaning British failure,
means people switch off when success stories come about.

...but it doesn't mean the British people do.

Except when it comes to buying on price rather than considering the
broader economic issues.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-12-31 13:43:18 +0000, "alexander.keys1"
said:


True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says
his recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want
to buy.

He didn't reinvent the vacuum cleaner, the cyclone idea has been around for
40 years. He makes things that his enourmous marketing budget convinces
people that they want to buy. The product may look like a space station but
is very unreliable and seriously under performs.

Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

Why? That's a circular argument. The jobs are not "British" as such.
This company began manufacturing in the UK and employed British people to
do the work. Subsequently, the costs of manufacturing in the UK rose to a
point where it was no longer tenable to manufacture here and so part was
moved offshore. The alternatives would have been:

1) Raise prices. Would the (British) consumer pay?

********. Numatic make a far superior product and operate a very
competitive price structure, much cheaper than Dyson for a better product.

2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

Numatic continue to expand and create jobs im Cornwall - an economically
deprived area. Manufacturing in the UK doesn't seem to be a problem for
Europe's leading vac & floor machine manufacturer - why should it be a
problem for Dyson?

3) Look for government subsidy. Even if that were to have happened, one
only has to look at the tattered remains of various parts of British
industry to see why it doesn't work.

Numatic get nothing from the Govmint, they prosper in spite of Govmint.

If anybody should get a knighthood for making vacuum cleaners, then
it should go to the boss of 'Numatic International', makers of the
'Henry' and a wide range of machines for various purposes.

Too bloody true mate!

Why? The honour for Dyson was not for making vacuum cleaners, it was for
services to business (see Queen's List).

He should be publicly dishonoured for selling UK jobs to Malaysia. People
like James Dyson have no moral code.

They are a *lot*
better than Dyson's, and only half the price.

Bloody right again.
They may or may not be, but that is not relevant.

Dyson's won't stand up to commercial use.

They aren't sold for commercial use.

They won't bloody stand up to domestic use - let alone commercial. Known in
the domestic appliance trade as the "Die Soon". **** poor performance &
reliability.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2006-12-31 23:05:52 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-12-31 13:43:18 +0000, "alexander.keys1"
said:


True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says
his recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want
to buy.

He didn't reinvent the vacuum cleaner, the cyclone idea has been around
for 40 years. He makes things that his enourmous marketing budget
convinces people that they want to buy. The product may look like a
space station but is very unreliable and seriously under performs.

Hence the award for services to business? (could include marketing?)


Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

Why? That's a circular argument. The jobs are not "British" as
such. This company began manufacturing in the UK and employed British
people to do the work. Subsequently, the costs of manufacturing in the
UK rose to a point where it was no longer tenable to manufacture here
and so part was moved offshore. The alternatives would have been:

1) Raise prices. Would the (British) consumer pay?

********. Numatic make a far superior product and operate a very
competitive price structure, much cheaper than Dyson for a better
product.

Except that without reviewing the complete accounts for both companies,
one is comparing apples with pears.

For example, Dyson may well consider that marketing spend is key to
their business success, whereas Numatic may not. It is, nonetheless,
part of the cost base of the company. Whether one product is better
than the other is a separate issue.



2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

Numatic continue to expand and create jobs im Cornwall - an
economically deprived area. Manufacturing in the UK doesn't seem to be
a problem for Europe's leading vac & floor machine manufacturer - why
should it be a problem for Dyson?

Different cost base and business model. Dyson is not trying to be a
Numatic and Numatic is not trying to be Dyson.


3) Look for government subsidy. Even if that were to have happened,
one only has to look at the tattered remains of various parts of
British industry to see why it doesn't work.

Numatic get nothing from the Govmint, they prosper in spite of Govmint.

That should ensure their success.


If anybody should get a knighthood for making vacuum cleaners, then
it should go to the boss of 'Numatic International', makers of the
'Henry' and a wide range of machines for various purposes.

Too bloody true mate!

Why? The honour for Dyson was not for making vacuum cleaners, it was
for services to business (see Queen's List).

He should be publicly dishonoured for selling UK jobs to Malaysia.

He hasn't sold UK jobs to Malaysia. That implies that there is some
kind of ownership of them. There isn't Until the UK grows out of
that notion it will continue to have issues like this.


People like James Dyson have no moral code.

His duty is first of all to the company shareholders, second to
creditors. That means trading in a solvent fashion. The law
doesn't give an option on that.





They are a *lot*
better than Dyson's, and only half the price.

Bloody right again.
They may or may not be, but that is not relevant.

Dyson's won't stand up to commercial use.

They aren't sold for commercial use.

They won't bloody stand up to domestic use - let alone commercial.
Known in the domestic appliance trade as the "Die Soon". **** poor
performance & reliability.

One has to ask the obvious questions.

- If the products are so poor (and I'm not arguing that one either
way), why do people continue to buy them?

- If people in the UK really do care about preserving manufacturing
employment in the UK, why are they continuing to buy products made in
Malaysia when Dyson's move to offshore production had a great deal of
publicity?


The only conclusions that I can see are

- People are attracted by the marketing

- They put their pocket book ahead of moral considerations of where
products are made.

- Perhaps for some people the products are not that bad.

I normally agree with most of your posts Andy but here I have got to
differ. AIUI you agree with him moving his manufactoring base. You
certainely seem to put up a good argument supporting why he did this or
that and that is your perogative. For myself I bought three dyson's in
succession. Replacing not because they were worn out but because better
models came along and the other was always handy for thge garage/ van.
I paid good money for them, vastly over other makes at the time and was
proud to do so because it felt right. At the time I felt that the
marketing was spot on and there was also the trend value attatched, and
it felt good to be supporting a British industry. As soon as ne moved
the manufactoring base I couldn't help feeling betrayed. He was earning
millions and was desperate to save a couple of quid in each machine. As
it was he was selling at a premium. The logistics about manufactoring
here or there I will leave to you.
From my point of view he had a good loyal customer base that were not
always buying on price and he sold them out to make more in profits. I
don't think that I am alone in the view either as the price of his
machines has dropped massively and will probably continue to do so. I
think that he would have maintained a better margin and sales if he had
left the production here.

Legin

On 2007-01-03 07:32:13 +0000, "legin" said:


I normally agree with most of your posts Andy but here I have got to
differ. AIUI you agree with him moving his manufactoring base. You
certainely seem to put up a good argument supporting why he did this or
that and that is your perogative. For myself I bought three dyson's in
succession. Replacing not because they were worn out but because better
models came along and the other was always handy for thge garage/ van.
I paid good money for them, vastly over other makes at the time and was
proud to do so because it felt right. At the time I felt that the
marketing was spot on and there was also the trend value attatched, and
it felt good to be supporting a British industry. As soon as ne moved
the manufactoring base I couldn't help feeling betrayed. He was earning
millions and was desperate to save a couple of quid in each machine. As
it was he was selling at a premium. The logistics about manufactoring
here or there I will leave to you.
From my point of view he had a good loyal customer base that were not
always buying on price and he sold them out to make more in profits. I
don't think that I am alone in the view either as the price of his
machines has dropped massively and will probably continue to do so. I
think that he would have maintained a better margin and sales if he had
left the production here.

Legin

I take your point.

The thing is though, that quite often manufacturers will have piece
parts and components
manufactured in low cost areas and then do final assembly and QA in
western Europe.

There are very few products where one can say that the entire content
is made in the
perceived country of manufacture.

This is one of the reasons that there are rules for minimum content
required in order
to be able to label a product as made in a specific country.

So really, we are talking about matters of degree and perception. You
felt good about buying
Dyson's products because it felt right, marketing was right and
supporting British industry etc.
These are all very good reasons, although based on products sold and
what one sees people
buying, it's a minority practice.
I take a similar view on making product choices, although they tend to
be geographically
a bit broader - for example some hand power tools from Germany,
woodworking machinery
from Austria and Italy and so on. This tends to be based on where I
believe that I can get
the best and most appropriate products. Geographically, I will try to
buy products designed
and manufactured in Europe if I can, but I've long ago stopped having
the notion of selecting
a British product vs. a German one for example. Leaving aside all of
the unnecessary interventions
of the EU, from a practical business and consumer perspective I tend
to take an inclusive
view of Europe as opposed to it being somewhere that starts at Calais.
When you spend over 100
days a year travelling on business around Europe, it does tend to
result in a broader view.

Coming back to Dyson, I don't begrudge him his rewards at all. He
bootstrapped his business from scratch,
took the risks, got slapped down by the large manufacturers and all of
the rest of it.
I don't connect the fact that he has made subsantial sums from his
business, considering the risks taken etc. as
having a bearing on whether he can be criticised for a decision to move
some production
to another country.
As you say, he might have been able to make more margin by keeping
everything here in the UK, but
that would probably have risked having less and less market share.
Below a certain point, the product becomes niche. While that is OK,
the economies of scale go away and the prices have to go yet higher.
He simply made a business decision not to go that route, but to stay in
the volume game.

Also, we need to keep in mind that there are still substantial R&D and
other functions retained in the UK.
Considering the general trend to a services based economy (financial
sector in London is one example),
this is in line with the trend.

Britain has always had a good reputation for innovation, but a poor one
for execution and implementation.
Realistically, we are kidding ourselves if we believe that we can
continue to maintain and build the manufacturing bases of a generation
or two ago. They weren't based on sustainable reality then, and
certainly aren't
now.

There are not easy solutions. We could attempt to buck the trend.
That would involve altering human nature not to want to buy what they
believe is reasonable value for the lowest price. As it is, in order
to satisfy what people want, volume manufacture of commodity products
is in the Far East. We could impose large import tariffs to make such
goods unattractive - that would create a whole range of other issues.

I think that the real solution, and a long term one, is a cultural,
educational and training change such that there is a better match
between the supply of expertise and the market for it. Otherwise, I
think that we are really sticking fingers in dikes rather than
addressing the issues.

uk.media.tv.misc
The Medway Handyman
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:05:52 GMT


Numatic make a far superior product and operate a very
competitive price structure, much cheaper than Dyson for a better product.

2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

Numatic continue to expand and create jobs im Cornwall - an economically
deprived area


I've never heard of the company you mention - but if it wasnt for dyson
would the company be in business making a similar product - if not -
then those people in cornwall probably wouldnt have jobs .

Do you know if the people in cornwall look at it in that way ? .


--
www.phptakeaway.co.uk
(work in progress)

On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:07:20 UTC, Krustov wrote:

Numatic make a far superior product and operate a very
competitive price structure, much cheaper than Dyson for a better product.

2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

Numatic continue to expand and create jobs im Cornwall - an economically
deprived area

I've never heard of the company you mention - but if it wasnt for dyson
would the company be in business making a similar product - if not -
then those people in cornwall probably wouldnt have jobs .

1) Numatic were around long before Dyson.
2) It's not a similar product, except that it's a vacuum cleaner. It it
more conventional, but simple, well designed and works well.
3) Numatic make Henrys - now have you heard of their products?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 1 Jan 2007 13:19:30 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:07:20 UTC, Krustov wrote:

Numatic make a far superior product and operate a very
competitive price structure, much cheaper than Dyson for a better product.

2) Go into liquidation, in which case all jobs would be lost

Numatic continue to expand and create jobs im Cornwall - an economically
deprived area

I've never heard of the company you mention - but if it wasnt for dyson
would the company be in business making a similar product - if not -
then those people in cornwall probably wouldnt have jobs .

1) Numatic were around long before Dyson.
2) It's not a similar product, except that it's a vacuum cleaner. It it
more conventional, but simple, well designed and works well.
3) Numatic make Henrys - now have you heard of their products?

For anyone who doesnt yet have a Henry ... Homebase are selling them
for £85 at the moment which I'm sure is less than I paid for mine
three years ago

Anna


--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
....

He should be publicly dishonoured for selling UK jobs to Malaysia. People
like James Dyson have no moral code.

And you employ how many people in the UK?

"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner,

I dont believe anyone's that clueless. Not over the age of 3 anyway.

NT

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.


Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an inventor get
a knighthood!

ray wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:

"Ar" wrote in message
. ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.



Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an inventor get
a knighthood!

Services to British industry?

JNugent wrote:
ray wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:

"Ar" wrote in message
...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.



Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Services to British industry?

services to the laber parti.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
SNIP

services to the laber parti.



So Labour Party hype on "Education, Education, Education" didn't seem
to work did it !

AWEM

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
SNIP
services to the laber parti.



So Labour Party hype on "Education, Education, Education" didn't seem
to work did it !

AWEM


Anyone else remember Wilson's 'white heat of technological revolution' ?

ISTR the reality was strikes, more strikes, and more strikes after that,
no power, and union people getting paid double what you got with a top
class honours degree, SuperTax and the Brain Drain.

ray wrote:

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.


Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an inventor get
a knighthood!

At least he does something. Better than doing nothing.

However... Dyson has been interviewed a lot on TV, trying to sell his
ideas as an image rather than function. But this is not unusual. They
like genuine British entrepreneurs, but I wouldn't buy his vacuum cleaner;
too expensive and somewhat flimsy.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:00:07 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "ray"
, wrote


"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...

True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.


Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an inventor get
a knighthood!


Because you've run out of drug addict old rock stars?

Maybe you need another "Sir Elton" to tell heads' of state "up yours".

ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far east in
the name of shareholders dividend?

JD has the morals of a cheap whore.

Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far east in
the name of shareholders dividend?

JD has the morals of a cheap whore.

Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.

I dont blame him, the British are hopelessly uncompetitive.


NT

Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.

I dont blame him, the British are hopelessly uncompetitive.

What, all of them? That's discriminating against 60, 000, 000 people,
including yourself and your family (one would assume). In either case it
makes you sound like a dickless nobody.

"Mother Farquhar" wrote in message
...
Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.

I dont blame him, the British are hopelessly uncompetitive.

What, all of them? That's discriminating against 60, 000, 000 people,
including yourself and your family (one would assume). In either case it
makes you sound like a dickless nobody.


There are about 32 million dickless people in the UK, we generally call them
women:-))

Of the remaining 28 million dick persons,we call them males:-))

You will of course have to check which category you yourself belong to:-))

wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far east in
the name of shareholders dividend?

JD has the morals of a cheap whore.

Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.

I dont blame him, the British are hopelessly uncompetitive.


Yup. With income tax as high as it is, and cheap chinese money boosting
the pound and the euro, its hardly surprising.

NT

On 2006-12-31 23:09:16 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far east
in the name of shareholders dividend?

Because the shareholders expect a dividend and will otherwise invest elsewhere?

Who are the shareholders? Pension schemes, managed funds, ISAs,.....

Who are the customers? Investors in pension schemes, managed funds,
ISAs,..... People who continue to buy his products.

One can hardly blame ER2. She probably has a Henry anyway.

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2006-12-31 23:09:16 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!
Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far
east in the name of shareholders dividend?

Because the shareholders expect a dividend and will otherwise invest elsewhere?

Who are the shareholders? Pension schemes, managed funds, ISAs,.....

Who are the customers? Investors in pension schemes, managed funds,
ISAs,..... People who continue to buy his products.

One can hardly blame ER2. She probably has a Henry anyway.

I thought she normally had Phillips


--
geoff

On 2007-01-01 01:37:08 +0000, raden said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2006-12-31 23:09:16 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!
Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far
east in the name of shareholders dividend?

Because the shareholders expect a dividend and will otherwise invest elsewhere?

Who are the shareholders? Pension schemes, managed funds, ISAs,.....

Who are the customers? Investors in pension schemes, managed funds,
ISAs,..... People who continue to buy his products.

One can hardly blame ER2. She probably has a Henry anyway.

I thought she normally had Phillips

Very good...

The Medway Handyman wrote:
ray wrote:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an
inventor get a knighthood!

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the far east in
the name of shareholders dividend?

JD has the morals of a cheap whore.


This is a necessary precondition to getting a knighthood, but first you
have to become an expensive whore.

Sorry - that's an insult to cheap whores.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:09:16 GMT The Medway Handyman wrote :
Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the
far east in the name of shareholders dividend?

"Dyson's plea for the dignity of the assembly line had a setback in
2002, when he shifted his own to Malaysia, leaving 800 workers laid
off at home. What precipitated his action was being refused planning
permission to extend his plant by a few hundred yards. Such
pettiness, combined with growing labour costs and the fact that his
mechanical supplies were already coming from the Far East, spurred
him to go."

That's planners for you ...

http://news.independent.co.uk/people...icle327225.ece
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:09:16 GMT The Medway Handyman wrote :

Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the
far east in the name of shareholders dividend?


"Dyson's plea for the dignity of the assembly line had a setback in
2002, when he shifted his own to Malaysia, leaving 800 workers laid
off at home. What precipitated his action was being refused planning
permission to extend his plant by a few hundred yards. Such
pettiness, combined with growing labour costs and the fact that his
mechanical supplies were already coming from the Far East, spurred
him to go."

That's planners for you ...

http://news.independent.co.uk/people...icle327225.ece

IIRC, it was in a rural area. A sufficiently-large
factory would have been *welcomed* in a location zoned
for industry, probably in or on the edge of a town or
city. There are good reasons for not allowing any old
development in a rural spot.

Either we have planning policies designed to protect
rural and residential areas from the negative effects
of industrial development or we don't. And we do.

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:44:38 +0000 JNugent wrote :
IIRC, it was in a rural area. A sufficiently-large
factory would have been *welcomed* in a location zoned
for industry, probably in or on the edge of a town or
city. There are good reasons for not allowing any old
development in a rural spot.

Either we have planning policies designed to protect
rural and residential areas from the negative effects
of industrial development or we don't. And we do.

I agree that if you had a new business wanting to build a mega
factory then you would probably not allow one in a location
such as this (though IIRC Rolls Royce's new car factory is).
But when you have a successful business that wants to expand,
you ought to be flexible.

We had the same thing (for different reasons) in the 1960s when
TPTB stopped car firms expanding and made them build factories
at Halewood, Linwood etc with all the economic disadvantages
that ensued.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

JNugent wrote:
Either we have planning policies designed to protect rural and
residential areas from the negative effects of industrial development or
we don't. And we do.

Either planning allows industry in places where people are industrious
or the country becomes a leisure park for people who cannot afford it.


--
djc

"JNugent" wrote in message
...

Either we have planning policies designed to protect rural and residential
areas from the negative effects of industrial development or we don't. And
we do.

They do not. They protect the interests of large landowners. The public gets
terrible a deal with the most expensive homes in the western world, living
in small pokey homes. The average new home in little Denmark is "twice" as
big. Only 7.5% of the land is settled with about 2.5% paved.

Read the below:
Unaffordable Housing (pdf)
http://policyexchange.moodia.co.za/images/libimages/143.pdf


Bigger Better Faster More (pdf)
http://policyexchange.moodia.co.za/images/libimages/141.pdf

Better Homes Greener Cities (pdf)
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/137.pdf

Book:
Who Owns Britain by Kevin Cahill
(available from Amazon)

DVD:
Whose Britain Is It Anyway - BBC, 2006
Presented by Peter Snow & Dan Snow

"JNugent" wrote in message
...

IIRC, it was in a rural area. A sufficiently-large factory would have been
*welcomed* in a location zoned for industry, probably in or on the edge of
a town or city. There are good reasons for not allowing any old
development in a rural spot.

Either we have planning policies designed to protect rural and residential
areas from the negative effects of industrial development or we don't. And
we do.

Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceuticals group, abandoned plans to locate
its European headquarters to Britain because of planning constraints.
Development of Heathrow Airport's Terminal Five was delayed for years by
planning objections, with Swedish furniture giant IKEA struggling for
permission for 20 more stores. The planning system not only strangles the
people in choosing a place to live but also discourages wealth creating
industry.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:09:16 GMT The Medway Handyman wrote :
Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the
far east in the name of shareholders dividend?

"Dyson's plea for the dignity of the assembly line had a setback in
2002, when he shifted his own to Malaysia, leaving 800 workers laid
off at home. What precipitated his action was being refused planning
permission to extend his plant by a few hundred yards. Such
pettiness, combined with growing labour costs and the fact that his
mechanical supplies were already coming from the Far East, spurred
him to go."

That's planners for you ...

http://news.independent.co.uk/people...icle327225.ece
--
It was wages and costs that made him move - for years Dyson touted the
bits for his vacuum round the plastic moulders in the midlands. Several
set up to make the bits, I actually printed in about 1990 several
batches of Dyson pullalong vacuum top covers plus the large clear
plastic drum for the upright - three lines and Full . We sold the
machine we had made up to a factory in Redditch that was making the
bits. The problem was - cost - Dyson wanted the bits for nothing , they
were difficult plastic bits to mould and we worked with three different
companies about the small bits of printing. Eventually each one lost it
as costs were driven down and it wasn't worth doing anymore.

This is replecated across industry , it costs too much to make stuff ,
wages alone account for the most - who wants to work for peanuts? Noone
but if the bloke down the road only pays minimum wage then you have to
or he'll put you out of business. But even then its still cheaper to
import form China or from the eastern european countries.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:09:16 GMT The Medway Handyman wrote :
Quite. And why isn't it revoked when he sells out jobs to the
far east in the name of shareholders dividend?

"Dyson's plea for the dignity of the assembly line had a setback in
2002, when he shifted his own to Malaysia, leaving 800 workers laid
off at home. What precipitated his action was being refused planning
permission to extend his plant by a few hundred yards.

The same with Screwfix in Yeovil. Screwfix said OK we move if no expansion,
and did. It is the same with all these rural towns that are run by Little
Middle Englanders, they cut off their own noses,

That's planners for you ...

http://news.independent.co.uk/people...icle327225.ece
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "ray" saying
something like:

Why does someone that uses expired patents and calls himself an inventor get
a knighthood!

Same as any other creature who wants to be called 'Sir'. Personal honour
and probity don't enter into it.
--

Dave

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.

Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

If anybody should get a knighthood

No one should. It is a silly and outdated and should have been banned years
ago. Open to corruption - Thatcher gave all the top P&O men gongs for giving
money to her party.

On 2007-01-08 00:29:54 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...

True Blue wrote:
"Ar" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6217291.stm

"
James Dyson, the engineer who reinvented the vacuum cleaner, says his
recipe for success is simple: he makes things that people want to buy.

Must have been SO difficult for New Liebour to give a nighthood to
someone that exported British jobs to Asia.

If anybody should get a knighthood

No one should. It is a silly and outdated and should have been banned
years ago. Open to corruption - Thatcher gave all the top P&O men gongs
for giving money to her party.

Bet you wouldn't turn down a "K" if it was offered.

They could call you Sir Twyford Adamant; or perhaps you would prefer a
peerage - Lord Vitreous of China.