This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was unplugging
everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal part of the plug)
I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD player case (metal) I got
a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just a sensation. I have checked
the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin plug and it appears OK. I
tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the same result. I haven't taken
the cover off the DVD player to investigate if the cover is grounded inside
yet. Anybody got any ideas where or what the problem could be. We have
other metal cased items in the house and there doesn't appear to be a
problem on those so I think it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but
then again I am not a Sparkie!

TIA

John

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 09:42:29 -0000, "John"
wrote:

This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was unplugging
everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal part of the plug)
I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD player case (metal) I got
a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just a sensation. I have checked
the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin plug and it appears OK. I
tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the same result. I haven't taken
the cover off the DVD player to investigate if the cover is grounded inside
yet. Anybody got any ideas where or what the problem could be. We have
other metal cased items in the house and there doesn't appear to be a
problem on those so I think it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but
then again I am not a Sparkie!

TIA

John


Nothing to worry about this is normal.

In article ,
John wrote:
This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was
unplugging everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal
part of the plug) I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD
player case (metal) I got a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just
a sensation. I have checked the earth connection in the DVD player 3
pin plug and it appears OK. I tried the 'setup' in other sockets with
the same result. I haven't taken the cover off the DVD player to
investigate if the cover is grounded inside yet. Anybody got any ideas
where or what the problem could be. We have other metal cased items in
the house and there doesn't appear to be a problem on those so I think
it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but then again I am not a
Sparkie!

Lots of devices use high value resistors between line and ground for RF
suppression. These are of such a value to limit any current to a safe
figure. But if the conditions are right - like no ground connection at
the time - you can get a tingle. It's quite normal.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John wrote:
This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I
have to take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player.
As I was unplugging everything I noticed whilst holding the
aerial lead (metal part of the plug) I brushed the inside of my
forearm against the DVD player case (metal) I got a tingling
sensation, it didn't hurt but just a sensation. I have checked
the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin plug and it appears
OK. I tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the same result.
I haven't taken the cover off the DVD player to investigate if
the cover is grounded inside yet. Anybody got any ideas where
or what the problem could be. We have other metal cased items
in the house and there doesn't appear to be a problem on those
so I think it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but then
again I am not a Sparkie!

This puzzles me also.

We were given a Panasonic VCR last week. It has a metal
cover (fixing screws touchable), lots of 'earthed' screens
inside, all connected together.

But the mains lead to the VCR is only 2-wire?

Ok, so it might earthed via the coax cable to the TV.

But the mains lead to the TV is also only 2-wire?

There's no chance that it could be earthed by the aerial.

So I seem to have mains-powered boxes with metal bits
that are touchable, with none of those metal bits
safety-earthed??

--
Tony Williams.

"John" wrote in message
...
This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was
unplugging everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal part
of the plug) I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD player
case (metal) I got a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just a
sensation. I have checked the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin
plug and it appears OK. I tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the
same result. I haven't taken the cover off the DVD player to investigate
if the cover is grounded inside yet. Anybody got any ideas where or what
the problem could be. We have other metal cased items in the house and
there doesn't appear to be a problem on those so I think it is unlikely to
be in the mains wiring but then again I am not a Sparkie!

TIA

John


As others have said - it's normal.

It's caused by one of the devices ( TV / Digibox / VCR etc ) connected to
the antenna circuit using only a 2-wire mains lead and also having internal
filters which by design cause small amounts of leakage current to flow to
their internal chassis. Since the internal chassis is not grounded (
2-wire mains lead ), the chassis floats at around half mains voltage. This
slightly-live internal chassis is not exposed anywhere except the aerial
inlet, and this is is where you get the tingle from.

You get the tingle when you touch both the slightly-live chassis, and
something with a true ground, at the same time.

Also, this 'floating' voltage will be back-fed from the offending appliance
to your RF distribution, meaning that quite possibly all the aerial outlets
in your house will also have this voltage present on them. The first many
people know about this is when they get a tuner card for their PC, and as
they plug the aerial in, they feel the tingle between the aerial wire and
the PC case ( which is grounded via a 3-pin plug. ) They often assume the
PC is faulty and 'live', but usually this is not the case. The PC is
correctly earthed, it is the aerial cable screen that it 'live'.

I know someone who has run a short earth wire between the screen connection
in the back of the UHF wall-plate to the earth lug in an adjacent 13A
outlet, basically earthing these floating chassis devices via their aerial
wires. This was intended to allow this leakage to bleed away, since he
thought this may be causing issues with the tuner card in his PC. I don't
know whether he has had any issues with ths or not.

--
Ron

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll leave it then and just make sure I
don't suck the aerial lead whilst putting a disc in the DVD!

Cheers

John

"John" wrote in message
...
This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was
unplugging everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal part
of the plug) I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD player
case (metal) I got a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just a
sensation. I have checked the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin
plug and it appears OK. I tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the
same result. I haven't taken the cover off the DVD player to investigate
if the cover is grounded inside yet. Anybody got any ideas where or what
the problem could be. We have other metal cased items in the house and
there doesn't appear to be a problem on those so I think it is unlikely to
be in the mains wiring but then again I am not a Sparkie!

TIA

John

We have this with a table lamp which has a metal 'stem'. It's been checked
and checked, properly re-wired and tested in other sockets and it still does
it. Other lamps with metal 'stems' and other metal objects don't do it
although we used to have it with an electric kettle.

Doesn't bother me and we can only feel it, as you say, when tou ching it
very lightly.

It's also done it for forty odd years and hasn't caused any problem, it's
just interesting.

Mary

Tony Williams wrote:
In article ,
John wrote:

This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I
have to take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player.
As I was unplugging everything I noticed whilst holding the
aerial lead (metal part of the plug) I brushed the inside of my
forearm against the DVD player case (metal) I got a tingling
sensation, it didn't hurt but just a sensation. I have checked
the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin plug and it appears
OK. I tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the same result.
I haven't taken the cover off the DVD player to investigate if
the cover is grounded inside yet. Anybody got any ideas where
or what the problem could be. We have other metal cased items
in the house and there doesn't appear to be a problem on those
so I think it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but then
again I am not a Sparkie!

This puzzles me also.

We were given a Panasonic VCR last week. It has a metal
cover (fixing screws touchable), lots of 'earthed' screens
inside, all connected together.

But the mains lead to the VCR is only 2-wire?

Ok, so it might earthed via the coax cable to the TV.

But the mains lead to the TV is also only 2-wire?

There's no chance that it could be earthed by the aerial.

So I seem to have mains-powered boxes with metal bits
that are touchable, with none of those metal bits
safety-earthed??

this is common.


NT

As others have said - it's normal.

It's caused by one of the devices ( TV / Digibox / VCR etc ) connected to
the antenna circuit using only a 2-wire mains lead and also having internal
filters which by design cause small amounts of leakage current to flow to
their internal chassis. Since the internal chassis is not grounded (
2-wire mains lead ), the chassis floats at around half mains voltage. This
slightly-live internal chassis is not exposed anywhere except the aerial
inlet, and this is is where you get the tingle from.

You get the tingle when you touch both the slightly-live chassis, and
something with a true ground, at the same time.

Also, this 'floating' voltage will be back-fed from the offending appliance
to your RF distribution, meaning that quite possibly all the aerial outlets
in your house will also have this voltage present on them. The first many
people know about this is when they get a tuner card for their PC, and as
they plug the aerial in, they feel the tingle between the aerial wire and
the PC case ( which is grounded via a 3-pin plug. ) They often assume the
PC is faulty and 'live', but usually this is not the case. The PC is
correctly earthed, it is the aerial cable screen that it 'live'.

I know someone who has run a short earth wire between the screen connection
in the back of the UHF wall-plate to the earth lug in an adjacent 13A
outlet, basically earthing these floating chassis devices via their aerial
wires. This was intended to allow this leakage to bleed away, since he
thought this may be causing issues with the tuner card in his PC. I don't
know whether he has had any issues with ths or not.

--
Ron

We've got a Panasonic TV that does this and as said consequently
'livened' up the RF distribution system. At the time I thought that it
was possible that line and neutral had been swapped in the TV and I put
it on an extension lead with the supplies reversed, and the leakage
went away.

I meant to chase it up with the manufacturers but that never happened
and when some time later and the warranty was over, and I was fitting a
digibox, I took the back off and changed the mains connector to the pcb
around.

Rob

This puzzles me also.

We were given a Panasonic VCR last week. It has a metal
cover (fixing screws touchable), lots of 'earthed' screens
inside, all connected together.

But the mains lead to the VCR is only 2-wire?

Ok, so it might earthed via the coax cable to the TV.

But the mains lead to the TV is also only 2-wire?

There's no chance that it could be earthed by the aerial.

So I seem to have mains-powered boxes with metal bits
that are touchable, with none of those metal bits
safety-earthed??

this is common.


NT

Well, yes, we seem to all agree on that.
However, it does beg the question*why* is it normal.

We don't accept minor tingles from anything else, and accept it as 'normal'.
Why should we accept it in this case?

Recently, we criticised a householder who electrocuted himself by coming
between between a live kitchen shelf who's mounting screws had punctured a
wire in the wall, and a nearby earthed appliance. He was criticised for
not realising something was up when they'd been getting a tingle from the
shelf previously.

I don't know what 'class2' 'double insuated' actually means, ( Yes, I know I
could google it... ) but in this case, it doesn't appear to amount to much
if there are exposed metal parts which routinely deliver a shock!

Just seems fundamentally wrong to me.

All it would take is single failure of a filter cap for the
partially-exposed chassis to become properly live, and with no earth,
over-current protection would not trip.

--
Ron

Ron Lowe wrote:

I don't know what 'class2' 'double insuated' actually means, ( Yes, I know I
could google it... ) but in this case, it doesn't appear to amount to much
if there are exposed metal parts which routinely deliver a shock!

A class2 device is unlikely to give you a tingle unless you can feel
some form of inductive coupling to the casework...

With a normally earthed bit of eletronic kit then you can get a tingle
if you have a relaively high earth loop impedance (e.g. as would be
typical in houses with TT (local earth rod) earthing). The RFI filter on
the input can then in effect hold the casework at half mains voltage
(although with a very high impedance).

All it would take is single failure of a filter cap for the
partially-exposed chassis to become properly live, and with no earth,
over-current protection would not trip.

I would expect with a double isolated device the casework would not be
connected to the RFI filter.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

robgraham wrote:

We've got a Panasonic TV that does this and as said consequently
'livened' up the RF distribution system. At the time I thought that it
was possible that line and neutral had been swapped in the TV and I put
it on an extension lead with the supplies reversed, and the leakage
went away.

Remember that with many countries electrical systems their sockets do
not preserve polarisation. So the devices are designed to not be phased
(pun intended) by reversal of the supply. This is also why they normally
insert a capacitive filter to earth from both phase and neutral.

I meant to chase it up with the manufacturers but that never happened
and when some time later and the warranty was over, and I was fitting a
digibox, I took the back off and changed the mains connector to the pcb
around.

It may suggest on your set there is only a filter between one leg of the
supply and earth.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Ron Lowe wrote:

I don't know what 'class2' 'double insuated' actually means, ( Yes, I
know I could google it... ) but in this case, it doesn't appear to amount
to much if there are exposed metal parts which routinely deliver a shock!

A class2 device is unlikely to give you a tingle unless you can feel some
form of inductive coupling to the casework...

Or touch the aerial inlet connector, as discussed in this thread...

With a normally earthed bit of eletronic kit then you can get a tingle if
you have a relaively high earth loop impedance (e.g. as would be typical
in houses with TT (local earth rod) earthing). The RFI filter on the input
can then in effect hold the casework at half mains voltage (although with
a very high impedance).

I can see how that could happen.
However, for the purpose of this thread, I'd like to focus on what's
acceptable practice in the design of a double-insulated appliance with a
2-core mains lead, and why it's acceptable. Here, someone made the actual
choice to design the high ( infinite! ) earth impedance, with the
consequences.

All it would take is single failure of a filter cap for the
partially-exposed chassis to become properly live, and with no earth,
over-current protection would not trip.

I would expect with a double isolated device the casework would not be
connected to the RFI filter.


I'd expect that too.

But how about the shell of connectors which are externally accessible?
Is it regarded as acceptable for those to give you a tingle?
If so, why is it acceptable?

Getting shocks off other kit is not normally regarded as acceptable.
Is it OK for an electric shower to give you a little tingle, so long as it's
just the pipe outlet and nothing more, and the tingle is high-impedance so
not many mA flows?

Is there a rule about how much externally-touchable surface is OK to be
giving shocks?
Or how big those shocks are allowed to be?

It just seems wrong to me that *any* device should be, by design, giving
*any* shocks, however mild.


--
Ron

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Ron Lowe wrote:

I don't know what 'class2' 'double insuated' actually means, ( Yes, I
know I could google it... ) but in this case, it doesn't appear to
amount to much if there are exposed metal parts which routinely deliver
a shock!

A class2 device is unlikely to give you a tingle unless you can feel some
form of inductive coupling to the casework...

Or touch the aerial inlet connector, as discussed in this thread...

With a normally earthed bit of eletronic kit then you can get a tingle if
you have a relaively high earth loop impedance (e.g. as would be typical
in houses with TT (local earth rod) earthing). The RFI filter on the
input can then in effect hold the casework at half mains voltage
(although with a very high impedance).

I can see how that could happen.
However, for the purpose of this thread, I'd like to focus on what's
acceptable practice in the design of a double-insulated appliance with a
2-core mains lead, and why it's acceptable. Here, someone made the actual
choice to design the high ( infinite! ) earth impedance, with the
consequences.

All it would take is single failure of a filter cap for the
partially-exposed chassis to become properly live, and with no earth,
over-current protection would not trip.

I would expect with a double isolated device the casework would not be
connected to the RFI filter.


I'd expect that too.

But how about the shell of connectors which are externally accessible?
Is it regarded as acceptable for those to give you a tingle?
If so, why is it acceptable?

Getting shocks off other kit is not normally regarded as acceptable.
Is it OK for an electric shower to give you a little tingle, so long as
it's just the pipe outlet and nothing more, and the tingle is
high-impedance so not many mA flows?

Is there a rule about how much externally-touchable surface is OK to be
giving shocks?
Or how big those shocks are allowed to be?

It just seems wrong to me that *any* device should be, by design, giving
*any* shocks, however mild.


--
Ron



Any shock can make you jump and hurt something as a result. I found 56 volts
on my coax (digital meter)

Ron Lowe wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Ron Lowe wrote:

I don't know what 'class2' 'double insuated' actually means, ( Yes, I
know I could google it... )

it means metal cased equipment that is to a fair extent single
insulated.


but in this case, it doesn't appear to amount
to much if there are exposed metal parts which routinely deliver a shock!

you havent had a shock. A tingle is not a shock.


However, for the purpose of this thread, I'd like to focus on what's
acceptable practice in the design of a double-insulated appliance with a
2-core mains lead,

its acceptable to have single insulation, mark it as double insulated,
and its ok if you get a slight bite off the aerial.


and why it's acceptable.

why not? Why would something be prevented if it isnt causing a problem?


Here, someone made the actual
choice to design the high ( infinite! ) earth impedance, with the
consequences.

yes, the consequences that it cost a little less.


All it would take is single failure of a filter cap for the
partially-exposed chassis to become properly live, and with no earth,
over-current protection would not trip.

true. But not the point. The point is not what runs through someones
imagination, but what actually happens in the real world. The reality
is that the safety record is excellent.


I would expect with a double isolated device

double isolated? I dont think so.

the casework would not be
connected to the RFI filter.

So you expected wrongly. Thats all.


I'd expect that too.

But how about the shell of connectors which are externally accessible?
Is it regarded as acceptable for those to give you a tingle?
If so, why is it acceptable?

why not?


Getting shocks off other kit is not normally regarded as acceptable.
Is it OK for an electric shower to give you a little tingle, so long as it's
just the pipe outlet and nothing more, and the tingle is high-impedance so
not many mA flows?

no. A shower needs secure earthing not to be dangerous, so tingling
isnt an option.


Is there a rule about how much externally-touchable surface is OK to be
giving shocks?
Or how big those shocks are allowed to be?

There are insulation requirements for both class I and class II goods.
Whether theyre always followed is open to debate I suppose.


It just seems wrong to me that *any* device should be, by design, giving
*any* shocks, however mild.

there you go assuming again. I'd agree its not best practice, as its
long been known that touching an aerial that bites when youre standing
on a roof, no matter how slight the shock, can be enough for a person
to fall off and die.


Well, yes, we seem to all agree on that.
However, it does beg the question*why* is it normal.

cos its not killing people, as far as we know, and its cheaper.

We don't accept minor tingles from anything else, and accept it as 'normal'.
Why should we accept it in this case?

why not?


Recently, we criticised a householder who electrocuted himself by coming
between between a live kitchen shelf who's mounting screws had punctured a
wire in the wall, and a nearby earthed appliance. He was criticised for
not realising something was up when they'd been getting a tingle from the
shelf previously.

quite, if a metal shelf gives you electricity its fairly obvious
somethings wrong.


Just seems fundamentally wrong to me.

you mean its not the way you'd assumed. Every aspect of life is like
that. Single insulated goods are called double insulated to inspire
public confidence in safety, and to distinguish them from goods with
none of the requirements of so-called double insulation. Theres nowt
new about political spin and public miseducation.


NT

Hi all
seems no one has picked up on the fact that john held the aerial lead if it
was still attached to the tv then there is your answer .
The tv sends a small radio carrier out through the aerial in order to better
capture the radio signal ,if its sat' ie sky then the LNB power is sent via
the cable.
As any radio guy will tell you you can get a heck of a belt of an aerial .
This also manifests itself in aluminium coax plugs as the plug itself
greying and becoming very flakey also if dark sometimes a small spark can be
seen when fitting/removing.
None of this is dangerous in normal cases and as with any electrical
appliance always unplug before moving .

HTH
CJ

wrote:

Single insulated goods are called double insulated to inspire
public confidence in safety, and to distinguish them from goods with
none of the requirements of so-called double insulation. Theres nowt
new about political spin and public miseducation.

What are you on about now? You should talk about "class 2 construction"
rather than double insulation. Double insulation - basic and
supplementary - is only one aspect or method of class 2 construction. A
single layer of insulation is allowed between hazardous live parts and
accessible metal parts provided it meets the requirements in the
relevant product standard for reinforced insulation, or is part of a
component or assembly subject to special constructional and/or test
requirements. The latter applies to things like isolating transformers
and components which bridge the insulation, such as class Y filter
capacitors.

In EN 60065, the standard applicable to sound & vision equipment, 0.5 mA
leakage is permitted (RMS at 50 Hz) and this is what can give rise to
harmless tingles. Contrary to what has been said elsewhere, it is
common to find filter capacitors between the mains and accessible parts
- TVs, for example, commonly have 4.7 nF caps between both poles of the
mains and the 'chassis'. By chassis I really mean the internal 0V or
ground rail which appears as accessible metalwork on antenna sockets,
SCARTs and phono sockets, etc. 4.7 nF will leak about 0.3 mA at mains
fundamental frequency.

A problem can arise if a large no. of items of class 2 equipment are
interconnected by non-isolating signal wiring since the leakage currents
will add up in phase, and the tingle severity will tend to get a bit
worse. Nevertheless you need a lot of equipment in a system before the
leakage becomes dangerous. 10 mA is normally regarded as the value
above which shock current may become dangerous, and that's 20 items all
leaking 0.5 mA - fairly unlikely in practice.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
wrote:

Single insulated goods are called double insulated to inspire
public confidence in safety, and to distinguish them from goods with
none of the requirements of so-called double insulation. Theres nowt
new about political spin and public miseducation.

What are you on about now? You should talk about "class 2 construction"
rather than double insulation. Double insulation - basic and
supplementary - is only one aspect or method of class 2 construction. A
single layer of insulation is allowed between hazardous live parts and
accessible metal parts provided it meets the requirements in the
relevant product standard for reinforced insulation, or is part of a
component or assembly subject to special constructional and/or test
requirements. The latter applies to things like isolating transformers
and components which bridge the insulation, such as class Y filter
capacitors.

In EN 60065, the standard applicable to sound & vision equipment, 0.5 mA
leakage is permitted (RMS at 50 Hz) and this is what can give rise to
harmless tingles. Contrary to what has been said elsewhere, it is
common to find filter capacitors between the mains and accessible parts
- TVs, for example, commonly have 4.7 nF caps between both poles of the
mains and the 'chassis'. By chassis I really mean the internal 0V or
ground rail which appears as accessible metalwork on antenna sockets,
SCARTs and phono sockets, etc. 4.7 nF will leak about 0.3 mA at mains
fundamental frequency.

A problem can arise if a large no. of items of class 2 equipment are
interconnected by non-isolating signal wiring since the leakage currents
will add up in phase, and the tingle severity will tend to get a bit
worse. Nevertheless you need a lot of equipment in a system before the
leakage becomes dangerous. 10 mA is normally regarded as the value
above which shock current may become dangerous, and that's 20 items all
leaking 0.5 mA - fairly unlikely in practice.


So despite saying 'What are you on about now? ' we agree after all.


NT

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...




It just seems wrong to me that *any* device should be, by design, giving
*any* shocks, however mild.

I'd never describe what we experience as even the mildest of shocks.

It was once decided in medical circles that the smallest touch which could
be experienced by a human was that of a bee's wing falling on the back of a
hand.

The tingle we experience from our lamp is like that. The slightest pressure
gives no experience at all.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

The tingle we experience from our lamp is like that. The slightest
pressure gives no experience at all.

Mary



You have a lamp that gives you a tingle?
What kind of cable does it have : 2 or 3 core?

Have you figured out where this voltage is coming from?
What makes you think it's safe?
( 'It's never hurt me yet' is really not good enough answer to this! )
It might be safe enough, then again, it might not.

If the leak path is 'by design' ( like the filters we've been discussing ),
than yes, it's probably safe. There may be other benign explanations too.
( eg: If the lamp is earthed via 3-core cable, and the house earth system
possibly floating slightly higher than true earth due to a highish-Z
earth. )

However, it could also be down to insulation failure in the lamp, which has
only partially broken down at the moment, but which may break down fully at
some time in the future cuasing a leithal situation.

I'd reccoment that you get to the bottom of this soon.
You need to know the source of this voltage before you can call it safe.

--
Ron

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

The tingle we experience from our lamp is like that. The slightest
pressure gives no experience at all.

Mary



You have a lamp that gives you a tingle?

See my post in this thread of 5 December 12.12

Mary

"John" wrote in message
...
This morning I am decorating the bedroom and in order to do so I have to
take down the shelf holding LCD TV, VCR and DVD player. As I was
unplugging
everything I noticed whilst holding the aerial lead (metal part of the
plug)
I brushed the inside of my forearm against the DVD player case (metal) I
got
a tingling sensation, it didn't hurt but just a sensation. I have checked
the earth connection in the DVD player 3 pin plug and it appears OK. I
tried the 'setup' in other sockets with the same result. I haven't taken
the cover off the DVD player to investigate if the cover is grounded
inside
yet. Anybody got any ideas where or what the problem could be. We have
other metal cased items in the house and there doesn't appear to be a
problem on those so I think it is unlikely to be in the mains wiring but
then again I am not a Sparkie!

TIA

John

Enjoyed this thread immensely - but not understood a chuffing word :-)
I'll get me coat!

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:03:02 GMT, "gavin" wrote:

Enjoyed this thread immensely - but not understood a chuffing word :-)
I'll get me coat!

Basically it means you buy an invention of the Devil called a PC with
a TV card in it. You extend the aerial to go in the PC and while
holding the aerial, you touch the PC case and get a shock.

The immediate reaction is
OH****IAMGOINGTODIEANDELECTRICIANSARECHRISTMASCANC ELLED.

So you do the next best thing and drag it in here. )

Plus the SWR is never 1-1 and s'hets & hetrodines were killed by fet and
lsi'

Techno-babble is great but I thought this was a laymans thread.

CJ

"EricP" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:03:02 GMT, "gavin" wrote:

Enjoyed this thread immensely - but not understood a chuffing word :-)
I'll get me coat!

Basically it means you buy an invention of the Devil called a PC with
a TV card in it. You extend the aerial to go in the PC and while
holding the aerial, you touch the PC case and get a shock.

The immediate reaction is
OH****IAMGOINGTODIEANDELECTRICIANSARECHRISTMASCANC ELLED.

So you do the next best thing and drag it in here. )


Aha - little light at the end of the tunnel :-)

Aha - little light at the end of the tunnel :-)


Yes - but unfortunately it's attached to the front of a train... :-)

wrote:

Andy Wade wrote:
wrote:
Single insulated goods are called double insulated to inspire
public confidence in safety, and to distinguish them from goods with
none of the requirements of so-called double insulation. Theres nowt
new about political spin and public miseducation.

So despite saying 'What are you on about now? ' we agree after all.

Where's the "spin and public miseducation" then?

--
Andy

cj wrote:

Techno-babble is great but I thought this was a laymans thread.


Laymans should be warned that the statement

"The tv sends a small radio carrier out through the aerial in order
to better capture the radio signal"

sounds a bit like BS

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 18:24:48 UTC, Adrian C wrote:

cj wrote:

Techno-babble is great but I thought this was a laymans thread.


Laymans should be warned that the statement

"The tv sends a small radio carrier out through the aerial in order
to better capture the radio signal"

sounds a bit like BS

I have this image of a carrier signal modulated with small hooks - a bit
like Velcro...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

Bob Eager wrote:


I have this image of a carrier signal modulated with small hooks - a
bit like Velcro...

Which reminds me of The Meaning of Liff by the late great Douglas Adams
http://folk.uio.no/alied/TMoL.html

HALCRO (n.)
An adhesive fibrous cloth used to hold babies' clothes together. Thousands
of tiny pieces of jam 'hook' on to thousands of tiny-pieces of dribble,
enabling the cloth to become 'sticky'.


--
Malc

Justin unbuttoned Clothilde's tight blouse and her breasts fell out. He
picked them up and put them back in again.
"Thank you," said Clothilde, polite even in passion. "I'm always losing
them."

John Cleary - Bear Pit