Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Firstly, how much of a problem is it if the pipe after the u-bend
(between the main soil pipe and the u-bend) has an upwards gradient?
The current installation has a slight upwards gradient, which (not
least) I think means the sink does not empty quickly.

I think it has this upwards gradient because a sink and dishwasher have
been plumbed in between the u-bend and the sink. This has pushed the
waste-end of the u-bend lower than originally intended. Does anyone
know if there's a way of plumbing in the dishwasher and washing machine
to bring the u-bend outlet higher? Can I just insert a small length of
pipe to achieve this?

Finally, the pipe to the waste pipe and the u-bend have been joined
particuarly badly. Basically, there is no seal/o-ring and the pipes
are different diameters! I can't see how it could ever have sealed
properly (to unblock the pipe, I had to unscrew it and it now no longer
seals). What's the best way to join these pipes together?

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....

Miles

miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Firstly, how much of a problem is it if the pipe after the u-bend
(between the main soil pipe and the u-bend) has an upwards gradient?
The current installation has a slight upwards gradient, which (not
least) I think means the sink does not empty quickly.

I think it has this upwards gradient because a sink and dishwasher have
been plumbed in between the u-bend and the sink. This has pushed the
waste-end of the u-bend lower than originally intended. Does anyone
know if there's a way of plumbing in the dishwasher and washing machine
to bring the u-bend outlet higher? Can I just insert a small length of
pipe to achieve this?

Finally, the pipe to the waste pipe and the u-bend have been joined
particuarly badly. Basically, there is no seal/o-ring and the pipes
are different diameters! I can't see how it could ever have sealed
properly (to unblock the pipe, I had to unscrew it and it now no longer
seals). What's the best way to join these pipes together?

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....

Miles


I think you can get adjustable traps for this sort of problem

On 23 Nov 2006 02:09:44 -0800 someone who may be "miles"
wrote this:-

Firstly, how much of a problem is it if the pipe after the u-bend
(between the main soil pipe and the u-bend) has an upwards gradient?
The current installation has a slight upwards gradient, which (not
least) I think means the sink does not empty quickly.

Not only will it not empty quickly, but debris is likely to
accumulate at the lower end, leading to a blockage. If the pipe went
downhill slightly then the debris would be washed along with the
water.

I think it has this upwards gradient because a sink and dishwasher have
been plumbed in between the u-bend and the sink. This has pushed the
waste-end of the u-bend lower than originally intended. Does anyone
know if there's a way of plumbing in the dishwasher and washing machine
to bring the u-bend outlet higher?

Take a look at the various traps with inlets for washing machines.
There are some models with a minimum distance between the inlet and
outlet of the trap. One of these might be enough to bring the outlet
of the trap up to a suitable height and you wouldn't need to adjust
anything else. These tend to be the ones with angled inlets for
washing machines.

Alternatively consider replacing the trap with one without machine
connections. Then either do the machine outlets properly with
standpipes and a new connection to the stack, or if there is space
there are running outlets that can be clamped onto a horizontal
pipe.

Finally, the pipe to the waste pipe and the u-bend have been joined
particuarly badly. Basically, there is no seal/o-ring and the pipes
are different diameters! I can't see how it could ever have sealed
properly (to unblock the pipe, I had to unscrew it and it now no longer
seals). What's the best way to join these pipes together?

Replace them.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....

These days I'd say most people would use one of these:-
http://www.plumbsave.net/products.html?option_ID=846
to plumb in a WM/sink/DW - the hoses from the WM / DW attach directly to the
trap - B&Q and the likes have them

Jon

Jonathan Pearson wrote:
miles wrote:

Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....


These days I'd say most people would use one of these:-
http://www.plumbsave.net/products.html?option_ID=846
to plumb in a WM/sink/DW - the hoses from the WM / DW attach directly to the
trap - B&Q and the likes have them

Jon



Actually, that is exactly what it is all plumbed in with at the moment,
but the extra length for the WM/DW fittings means the trap outlet is not
high enough.

My current favoured option is to replace it with something more like

http://www.plumbsave.net/products.html?option_ID=827

so the waste pipe at least has a downhill gradient, and find some other
fitting to link in the WM/DW (for example, giving them their own traps).

Does this sound feasible?

Thanks for your help!

Miles

miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Firstly, how much of a problem is it if the pipe after the u-bend
(between the main soil pipe and the u-bend) has an upwards gradient?
The current installation has a slight upwards gradient, which (not
least) I think means the sink does not empty quickly.

I think it has this upwards gradient because a sink and dishwasher have
been plumbed in between the u-bend and the sink. This has pushed the
waste-end of the u-bend lower than originally intended. Does anyone
know if there's a way of plumbing in the dishwasher and washing machine
to bring the u-bend outlet higher? Can I just insert a small length of
pipe to achieve this?

Finally, the pipe to the waste pipe and the u-bend have been joined
particuarly badly. Basically, there is no seal/o-ring and the pipes
are different diameters! I can't see how it could ever have sealed
properly (to unblock the pipe, I had to unscrew it and it now no longer
seals). What's the best way to join these pipes together?

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....

Miles

It's almost always easier to take the whole lot out back to the pipe
sticking through the wall and start again with new traps, pipes and
fittings. It's not a big job or expensive.

A

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:13:33 +0000 someone who may be none
""seb\"@(none)" wrote this:-

My current favoured option is to replace it with something more like

http://www.plumbsave.net/products.html?option_ID=827

Bottle traps are not a good idea on kitchen sinks. They clog up too
easily with scraps of food.

http://www.plumbsave.net/products.html?option_ID=845 might be small
enough to get the waste pipe going in the right direction and you
could connect the dishwasher to it, carefully to avoid siphonage.
Then you only have to deal with the washing machine, by one of the
methods already suggested.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....


When I purchased a 'Designer Pack' for a Franke sink, cum taps, cum waste
system it included a system Franke Plumbing Kit - LIRA 2.

This is really a waste management system with adaptors to the sink wastes
and connectors for washing machines, dish washers etc. The 'core' of the
system is a horizontal tube which acts as a manifold to which the 'sources'
connect then a 'U - bend' hanging off the bottom of the manifold. A sketch
is worth a thousand words -
http://www.titanicsinks.co.uk/acatal..._Packs_45.html


towards the bottom of the page..

--

Brian

wrote:
miles wrote:

Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

snip


Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....

Miles


It's almost always easier to take the whole lot out back to the pipe
sticking through the wall and start again with new traps, pipes and
fittings. It's not a big job or expensive.

A


I agree - it's quite clear that this botch should be ripped out and
started again.

There is a reason why whoever did it like this did it: the whole lot
joins an iron waste pipe running inside the house which has an outlet
which is too high for the current pipework.

My first impression is that to seal this outlet off, and cut a new one
about a foot lower for the kitchen waste pipes to feed into is a Big
Job. Am I right? Or this is fairly routine? Is it a building job or a
plumbing job?

Thanks,

Miles

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:36:45 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:


miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....


When I purchased a 'Designer Pack' for a Franke sink, cum taps, cum waste
system it included a system Franke Plumbing Kit - LIRA 2.



What are cum taps and cum wastes ??.....

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:36:45 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"

wrote:


miles wrote:
Hi,

During the course of investigating a blocked waste pipe, I've been
forced to become more familiar with the kitchen plumbing as installed
by my house's previous owners.

Suspecting this job may have hust got larger than anticipated ....


When I purchased a 'Designer Pack' for a Franke sink, cum taps, cum waste
system it included a system Franke Plumbing Kit - LIRA 2.



What are cum taps and cum wastes ??.....

If you have to ask ....

--

Brian

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:43:03 +0000 someone who may be Miles
wrote this:-

There is a reason why whoever did it like this did it: the whole lot
joins an iron waste pipe running inside the house which has an outlet
which is too high for the current pipework.

My first impression is that to seal this outlet off, and cut a new one
about a foot lower for the kitchen waste pipes to feed into is a Big
Job. Am I right? Or this is fairly routine? Is it a building job or a
plumbing job?

The ideal solution would be to use the existing connection for the
sink and make a new connection for the washing machine and
dishwasher lower down. They could then have separate standpipes with
a running trap between them and the stack.

Making a new 40mm connection in a cast iron stack can be done with
care and patience. There are saddle adapters that will mate properly
with such pipes, provided one can get all the way round them to
attach the straps and screw up the fastening. Don't drop the cast
iron plug down the stack, as it may stick somewhere. It helps if
access to drill is reasonable.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

miles wrote:
Hi,


snip


Miles


Thanks for all your help: I finally got it sorted out through a
combination of replacing the old plastic pipe seals, and a very short
extension that puts the outlet of the existing trap just a tiny bit
higher (but enough to make a difference).

I'll leave the larger-scale changes for when it's time to redo the
kitchen ...

Miles