Hi,

Excuse my lack of techi knowlege on this subject, I will explain it as
best I can! You may have seen me post on here before regarding my
broken old Mechanical timer control unit for my CH/Ho****er system.

British Gas have told me that I can replace my broken Mechanical (Made
by SMS) controller with a new digital one without replacing my twin
pumps for one single pump/diverter modern set up. Apparantly this is
because the system currently works on a series of relay switches which
will not work if they put in a digital control unit.

As a stop gap to get me through they have wired me up a digital timer
direct into the old control unit box and disabled the mechanical timer,
however the only way I can switch between hot water and heating is to
use the room thermostat as the relay switch in the old controller unit
which does this is blown and is now no longer made/stocked.

For now I can live with this, but it seems that I will have to invest
in a new diverter valve sometime in the near future, to bring my system
up to date and also because the wiring they have left me with in my
kitchen is extremely unsightly (insulating tape heaven!)

Does anybody in there experience have any idea how much it would cost
to get my 2 twin pumps replaced with a modern diverter valve and new
control unit, with labour included... British Gas have given me a quote
with a discount of around £360 and I am unsure whether this is
reasonable?!

Also, has anyone ever heard of such a problem before, as most posts on
here make replacing an old mechanical control unit seem so simple!

Thanks for your help!

Tom

In article . com,
Thomarse wrote:
Does anybody in there experience have any idea how much it would cost
to get my 2 twin pumps replaced with a modern diverter valve and new
control unit, with labour included... British Gas have given me a quote
with a discount of around £360 and I am unsure whether this is
reasonable?!

Think BG are taking the p**s as usual. If you go to this site:-

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/downloads.asp

and download the Replacement Guide for an SMC system you'll find the only
extra component needed is a changeover relay - you retain the twin pumps
and don't need a three port valve.

Suitable relays might be difficult to come by on a single basis as most
electronic suppliers have a minimum charge, and might need the sort of
connections an electrician isn't familiar with.

One way would be to buy an octal plug in type which with matching base
which gives screw connections. They have actually two sets of changeover
contacts but you only need to use the one set.

See:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ays/index.html

SR 508 for the relay, SR 511 for the base.

All it needs is an electrician with a couple of brain cells to fit the lot.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks for the reply Dave,

I had a look at the links you posted and they are certainly very
useful, it proves what I thought would be the case all along. I will be
getting on to British gas and pointing them in the direction of these
parts and asking them to explain why they cant do this? I have a
service cover with them, so they should do this for me.. Its an on
going saga which I have reported to Trading Standards.

On a side note however, would you say that it would be more efficient
to have a three port valve? I am just thinking in the longer term when
I come to sell the house whether getting this work done at some point
would be worth it?

For now though I just want a working control unit in my kitchen that
doesnt look like its been fixed by my 18 moth old and taped up with
sticky tape!

I will get on to BG and post their response here.. No doubt they will
have a get out!

Tom
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Thomarse wrote:
Does anybody in there experience have any idea how much it would cost
to get my 2 twin pumps replaced with a modern diverter valve and new
control unit, with labour included... British Gas have given me a quote
with a discount of around £360 and I am unsure whether this is
reasonable?!

Think BG are taking the p**s as usual. If you go to this site:-

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/downloads.asp

and download the Replacement Guide for an SMC system you'll find the only
extra component needed is a changeover relay - you retain the twin pumps
and don't need a three port valve.

Suitable relays might be difficult to come by on a single basis as most
electronic suppliers have a minimum charge, and might need the sort of
connections an electrician isn't familiar with.

One way would be to buy an octal plug in type which with matching base
which gives screw connections. They have actually two sets of changeover
contacts but you only need to use the one set.

See:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ays/index.html

SR 508 for the relay, SR 511 for the base.

All it needs is an electrician with a couple of brain cells to fit the lot.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2006-11-21 11:56:22 +0000, "Thomarse" said:

Thanks for the reply Dave,

I had a look at the links you posted and they are certainly very
useful, it proves what I thought would be the case all along. I will be
getting on to British gas and pointing them in the direction of these
parts and asking them to explain why they cant do this? I have a
service cover with them, so they should do this for me.. Its an on
going saga which I have reported to Trading Standards.

On a side note however, would you say that it would be more efficient
to have a three port valve? I am just thinking in the longer term when
I come to sell the house whether getting this work done at some point
would be worth it?

For now though I just want a working control unit in my kitchen that
doesnt look like its been fixed by my 18 moth old and taped up with
sticky tape!

I will get on to BG and post their response here.. No doubt they will
have a get out!

Tom


The next quote will be for a new boiler at £4k..... :-)


Grundfos has a twin pump unit. UPP 15-50. This comes complete with
wiring controls
etc. such that it can drop directly into a heating system with standard
programmer, thermostat
etc.

However....... list price is £155.

http://www.plumbase.co.uk/plumbline/...Cat=1&SubCat=9

or could be a bit less

http://www.bhl.co.uk/home.php?cat=2141


Choosing a 3port valve and standard pump would be less expensive in
component cost but
may need a bit more plumbing reworking.

I don't think that it factors into ability to sell the house because
most people have little idea about CH components.

In article . com,
Thomarse wrote:
I had a look at the links you posted and they are certainly very
useful, it proves what I thought would be the case all along. I will be
getting on to British gas and pointing them in the direction of these
parts and asking them to explain why they cant do this?

The answer might be is it's not in their colouring by numbers book...

I have a service cover with them, so they should do this for me.. Its an
on going saga which I have reported to Trading Standards.

Good luck. My brother is having much the same problem. Totally incompetent
'engineers'.

On a side note however, would you say that it would be more efficient
to have a three port valve? I am just thinking in the longer term when
I come to sell the house whether getting this work done at some point
would be worth it?

I'm really not sure. My self installed 30 year old system uses a three
port valve. They are, of course, about half the price of a pump. My worry
with two pumps would be the central heating one sticking through not being
used in the summer months. But then three port valves ain't 100% reliable.

For now though I just want a working control unit in my kitchen that
doesnt look like its been fixed by my 18 moth old and taped up with
sticky tape!

Off the top of my head, you should have all the wiring needed already in
place between the programmer and pumps, so fitting the new programmer and
relay shouldn't be that involved. But electricians can be funny with
something they've not done before...

I will get on to BG and post their response here.. No doubt they will
have a get out!

You're unlikely to get through to anyone who knows what you're talking
about. Sadly.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It seems to be a common problem with British Gas.. It took me weeks
just to get them to phone me back about the problem, and even then
after dozens of promised phone backs etc it took a very stern letter to
prompt some action.

3 engineers later, 1 which couldnt work out what to do, who came back a
week later and then still couldnt work out what to do, then another who
came after that who wiered in this temporary digtal timer onto my old
unit, didnt have any rawl plugs of his own so borrowed mine, didnt have
a cable deterctor so guessed where the wires might be in the wall
before drilling and then left me with a taped up box on the wall...
PLUS the new timer he added on didnt do anything as he had wired it up
wrong. Then the 3rd one who fixed that problem and told me that I
needed to ugrade this and that and basically that I needed a new
system...

I have the mobile number of teh service manager now and he rang me
yesterday to apologise (only because my MP had written to him to
complain). And now I find out that they are telling me rubbish about
having to replace my twin pumped system just to get a ne control unit.

It is crazy that they cant jsut sort this problem out for me. But then
again they do just want to sell new systems!

If I ever get this sorted by them I will post it on here, if not I will
be back for advice on how to do it myself!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Thomarse wrote:
I had a look at the links you posted and they are certainly very
useful, it proves what I thought would be the case all along. I will be
getting on to British gas and pointing them in the direction of these
parts and asking them to explain why they cant do this?

The answer might be is it's not in their colouring by numbers book...

I have a service cover with them, so they should do this for me.. Its an
on going saga which I have reported to Trading Standards.

Good luck. My brother is having much the same problem. Totally incompetent
'engineers'.

On a side note however, would you say that it would be more efficient
to have a three port valve? I am just thinking in the longer term when
I come to sell the house whether getting this work done at some point
would be worth it?

I'm really not sure. My self installed 30 year old system uses a three
port valve. They are, of course, about half the price of a pump. My worry
with two pumps would be the central heating one sticking through not being
used in the summer months. But then three port valves ain't 100% reliable.

For now though I just want a working control unit in my kitchen that
doesnt look like its been fixed by my 18 moth old and taped up with
sticky tape!

Off the top of my head, you should have all the wiring needed already in
place between the programmer and pumps, so fitting the new programmer and
relay shouldn't be that involved. But electricians can be funny with
something they've not done before...

I will get on to BG and post their response here.. No doubt they will
have a get out!

You're unlikely to get through to anyone who knows what you're talking
about. Sadly.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message .com
from "Thomarse" contains these words:

It is crazy that they cant jsut sort this problem out for me. But then
again they do just want to sell new systems!

How do you think they're able to afford all those expensive vans and
telly adverts?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm really not sure. My self installed
30 year old system uses a three
port valve. They are, of course,
about half the price of a pump.

My God, not again!! Good quality 3-Ports valves are more expensive than a
pump. Pumps are far more reliable and don't have mojor restrictions in the
pipework that 3-port valves give.

So are you saying my current twin pump set up is actually better (age
aside) than a 3 port valve system?

If so (dumb ass question coming up)... Why do British gas insist that
I'd be better off with a 3 port valve?
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm really not sure. My self installed
30 year old system uses a three
port valve. They are, of course,
about half the price of a pump.

My God, not again!! Good quality 3-Ports valves are more expensive than a
pump. Pumps are far more reliable and don't have mojor restrictions in the
pipework that 3-port valves give.

In message . com,
Thomarse writes
Hi,

Excuse my lack of techi knowlege on this subject, I will explain it as
best I can! You may have seen me post on here before regarding my
broken old Mechanical timer control unit for my CH/Ho****er system.

British Gas have told me that I can replace my broken Mechanical (Made
by SMS) controller with a new digital one without replacing my twin
pumps for one single pump/diverter modern set up. Apparantly this is
because the system currently works on a series of relay switches which
will not work if they put in a digital control unit.

How can there still be people out there who are clueless enough to still
be using BG ?



--
geoff

In article ,
raden wrote:
How can there still be people out there who are clueless enough to still
be using BG ?

Are there better value central heating maintenance contracts? My brother
has certainly had his money's worth out of them with his Potterton Envoy...

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2006-11-21 21:51:18 +0000, raden said:

In message . com,
Thomarse writes
Hi,

Excuse my lack of techi knowlege on this subject, I will explain it as
best I can! You may have seen me post on here before regarding my
broken old Mechanical timer control unit for my CH/Ho****er system.

British Gas have told me that I can replace my broken Mechanical (Made
by SMS) controller with a new digital one without replacing my twin
pumps for one single pump/diverter modern set up. Apparantly this is
because the system currently works on a series of relay switches which
will not work if they put in a digital control unit.

How can there still be people out there who are clueless enough to
still be using BG ?

Branding has an enormous effect....

Well, I got on to BG Manager last night, now I have his personal mobile
number, thanks to my MP stirring them up a bit.. explained that I didnt
need the 3 port valve etc and he tried to squirm out of it, but the
long and short of it is that they are going to try and replace my
control unit properly now... However I did have to tell them where to
get the parts and also show him wiring diagrams on the net.... I wonder
how much he gets paid? Cus I was doing his job for him last night!

We will see if they put it right!!!
Andy Hall wrote:

On 2006-11-21 21:51:18 +0000, raden said:

In message . com,
Thomarse writes
Hi,

Excuse my lack of techi knowlege on this subject, I will explain it as
best I can! You may have seen me post on here before regarding my
broken old Mechanical timer control unit for my CH/Ho****er system.

British Gas have told me that I can replace my broken Mechanical (Made
by SMS) controller with a new digital one without replacing my twin
pumps for one single pump/diverter modern set up. Apparantly this is
because the system currently works on a series of relay switches which
will not work if they put in a digital control unit.

How can there still be people out there who are clueless enough to
still be using BG ?

Branding has an enormous effect....