Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay windows
(of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run double
glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short
bit at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the
time, we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer.
Warning bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs
windows never (from the start, and fitted before lower bay done) closed
properly - it stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure shuts
okay. Fitters were made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm,
seen this before" but in the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although
never had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted
them since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end.
Problems appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to
PVA the plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!)
When it dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of the
bay. Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to crack
in pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure enough,
the cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the summer
months, with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks are
now maybe 3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs,
except slight bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the lowest part.

Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do
anything about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and mentioned
the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back next week -
never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces
of reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter -
and I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone
suggest whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring
the problem because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than
progressive - but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the
pencil marks with widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't
want to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to,
especially if ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company
will deny it, go to court who might say I left it too long!

Advice appreciated!

Thanks

David

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:42 +0000, David Hearn wrote:

Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay windows
(of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run double
glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short bit
at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the time,
we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer. Warning
bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs windows never
(from the start, and fitted before lower bay done) closed properly - it
stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure shuts okay. Fitters were
made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm, seen this before" but in
the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although never
had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted them
since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end. Problems
appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to PVA the
plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!) When it
dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of the bay.
Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to crack in
pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure enough, the
cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the summer months,
with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks are now maybe
3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs, except slight
bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the lowest part.

Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do anything
about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and mentioned
the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back next week -
never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces of
reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter - and
I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone suggest
whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring the problem
because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than progressive -
but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the pencil marks with
widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't want
to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to, especially if
ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company will deny it, go to
court who might say I left it too long!

Advice appreciated!

Thanks

David

================================
You've got a 10 year guarantee - use it. Contact the company, remind them
of their courtesy call and the concerns you expressed then and insist that
they send their surveyor to inspect the windows. Make an issue of the
marks you've made and make sure that they understand that the cracks are
getting worse.

Since they took the trouble to make a courtesy call it's quite likely that
they will at least make the effort to call and see the problem for
themselves in case there is a serious problem which could damage their
reputation.

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

Cicero wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:42 +0000, David Hearn wrote:

Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay windows
(of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run double
glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short bit
at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the time,
we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer. Warning
bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs windows never
(from the start, and fitted before lower bay done) closed properly - it
stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure shuts okay. Fitters were
made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm, seen this before" but in
the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although never
had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted them
since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end. Problems
appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to PVA the
plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!) When it
dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of the bay.
Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to crack in
pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure enough, the
cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the summer months,
with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks are now maybe
3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs, except slight
bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the lowest part.

Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do anything
about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and mentioned
the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back next week -
never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces of
reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter - and
I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone suggest
whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring the problem
because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than progressive -
but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the pencil marks with
widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't want
to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to, especially if
ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company will deny it, go to
court who might say I left it too long!

Advice appreciated!

Thanks

David

================================
You've got a 10 year guarantee - use it. Contact the company, remind them
of their courtesy call and the concerns you expressed then and insist that
they send their surveyor to inspect the windows. Make an issue of the
marks you've made and make sure that they understand that the cracks are
getting worse.

Since they took the trouble to make a courtesy call it's quite likely that
they will at least make the effort to call and see the problem for
themselves in case there is a serious problem which could damage their
reputation.

Cic.

Great - thanks for that. I don't want to be an unreasonable customer
(ie. going independent surveyor and small claims court) but I also am
aware I've left it a while.

I think writing (politely) is best - rather than calling?

Thanks

D

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:08:57 +0000, David Hearn wrote:

Cicero wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:42 +0000, David Hearn wrote:

Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay windows
(of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run double
glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short
bit at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the
time, we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer.
Warning bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs
windows never (from the start, and fitted before lower bay done) closed
properly - it stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure shuts
okay. Fitters were made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm,
seen this before" but in the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although
never had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted
them since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end.
Problems appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to
PVA the plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!)
When it dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of the
bay. Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to crack
in pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure enough,
the cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the summer
months, with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks
are now maybe 3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs,
except slight bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the lowest
part.

Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do
anything about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and
mentioned the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back
next week - never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces
of reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter -
and I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone
suggest whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring
the problem because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than
progressive - but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the
pencil marks with widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't
want to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to,
especially if ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company
will deny it, go to court who might say I left it too long!

Advice appreciated!

Thanks

David

================================
You've got a 10 year guarantee - use it. Contact the company, remind
them of their courtesy call and the concerns you expressed then and
insist that they send their surveyor to inspect the windows. Make an
issue of the marks you've made and make sure that they understand that
the cracks are getting worse.

Since they took the trouble to make a courtesy call it's quite likely
that they will at least make the effort to call and see the problem for
themselves in case there is a serious problem which could damage their
reputation.

Cic.

Great - thanks for that. I don't want to be an unreasonable customer (ie.
going independent surveyor and small claims court) but I also am aware
I've left it a while.

I think writing (politely) is best - rather than calling?

Thanks

D

===============================
It's not unreasonable to ask a company to honour their guarantee,
especially when it has about eight years left to run, because
that's what guarantees are for.

I would favour a call followed by letter if necessary. Polite but firm
and persistent seems to get the best results unless the sledge hammer of
legal action becomes necessary.

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

"David Hearn" wrote:
Long story cut (slightly) short.

and cut even shorter .....

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although never
had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted them
since they installed it.

I hope for your sake that the defects you mention are covered by the
guarantee. A typical DG 10 year guarantee often only covers the sealed
double-glazed units, that they should remain sealed and not be subject to
condensation of the collection of dust between the two panes of glass. Does
your guarantee cover workmanship and problems with frames and surrounding
masonry? If not, workmanship is covered by the Sale of Good Act, and if a
trader is not willing to remedy poor work then the small claims court route
is often the only answer.

David Hearn wrote:
Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay
windows (of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run
double glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short
bit at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the
time, we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer.
Warning bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs
windows never (from the start, and fitted before lower bay done)
closed properly - it stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure
shuts okay. Fitters were made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm,
seen this before" but in the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although
never had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted
them since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end.
Problems appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to
PVA the plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!)
When it dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of
the bay. Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to
crack in pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure
enough, the cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the
summer
months, with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks
are now maybe 3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs,
except slight bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the
lowest part.
Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do
anything about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and
mentioned the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back
next week - never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces
of reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter -
and I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone
suggest whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring
the problem because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than
progressive - but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the
pencil marks with widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't
want to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to,
especially if ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company
will deny it, go to court who might say I left it too long!

What do you mean by 'reinforcement'? - aluminium? - what size, length, shape
etc, where were they situated before? - you said they were on the cills?

David Hearn wrote:

Long story cut (slightly) short.
Advice appreciated!

Thanks

My advice is to cut a lot more of the story out. If you gave the same
speel to the person who answered the phone, no wonder there was no
follow up. They'd probably switched off half way through.

Phil L wrote:
David Hearn wrote:
Long story cut (slightly) short.

Around start of 2004 (give or take a few months) we had our bay
windows (of 1930's semi) replaced by a local, recommended, family run
double glazing company.

Ignoring usual delays, poor finish etc, main concern was removal of 2
aluminium square sections of reinforcement from lower sill (the short
bit at 45 degrees on each side) during fitting "oh, we do this all the
time, we can't cut the ends to fit otherwise!" said the installer.
Warning bells. A minor, secondary issue is that one of the upstairs
windows never (from the start, and fitted before lower bay done)
closed properly - it stuck a bit, but with a bit of downward pressure
shuts okay. Fitters were made aware of this, scratched their heads, "Hmm,
seen this before" but in the end nothing done about it.

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although
never had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted
them since they installed it.

The original old bay had been rotten and had dropped slightly (hence
replacement) and installer re-plastered upstairs bay at the end.
Problems appeared a few weeks/months/while after wards when I came to
PVA the plaster (possibly a number of months knowing how long I take!)
When it dried some cracks appeared along the edges of both sides of
the bay. Marked 2 points either side of the crack and noted (next to
crack in pencil) date and gap size. Did this every so often and sure
enough, the cracks were getting wider. I think they got worse over the
summer
months, with little movement over the winter. At best guess, cracks
are now maybe 3-4mm on each side. No sign of any problems downstairs,
except slight bowing of lower sill with the 2 corners being the
lowest part.
Since then we've had a little boy (wife was pregnant at the time of
install) and what with everything, never found a round tuit to do
anything about it.

I'm aware that we've left it a long time, possibly too long. We were
contacted back in Feb/March this year as a courtesy call from the
installers, to which my wife told them her mind (politely) and
mentioned the cracks. Fitting manager (or someone) would call back
next week - never heard from them.

What would people suggest we do about it now? I still have the pieces
of reinforcement that were removed.

We should get them in to check it out and see what they said. I'd be
happier getting their surveyor guy in to check, rather than a fitter -
and I think things should be put in writing - however, can anyone
suggest whether I've left things too long. I was initially monitoring
the problem because I wasn't sure it wasn't just settling, rather than
progressive - but then it just got longer and longer. Will having the
pencil marks with widths + dates be a problem (or a benefit)?

So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't
want to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to,
especially if ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company
will deny it, go to court who might say I left it too long!

What do you mean by 'reinforcement'? - aluminium? - what size, length, shape
etc, where were they situated before? - you said they were on the cills?

Bay shape

+-----------+
/ \
/ \

The metal slotted inside the main cills section. The cills were made
off-site, welded into the bay shape from 3 pieces. I believe there is a
piece within the main long centre section, and 2 pieces in the 2 open
ended pieces. The installer tapped on each open end and out slid the
aluminium inserts. I have still have both (somewhere in the garage -
certainly saw one the other day). I was told that as they needed to
adjust the length of the side pieces, they cannot do it with the inserts
and commonly throw them away.

The inserts are shaped like:
+------+
x | |
+- -+
y

With x being probably around 30mm? y is maybe 100mm or so. (Going from
distant memory!) Can't remember the length, but I think it's 18" to 2'
or so.

The load bearing corner pieces between the windows sit onto the cill and
are probably meant to be supported by the inserts, rather than punch
their way through. Although as they were square ended, they probably
don't extend right into the corner?

Does that help?

Thanks

D

Curious wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote:
Long story cut (slightly) short.

and cut even shorter .....

We have a 10 year (insurance backed) guarantee with them - although never
had to use it yet, and also more importantly - haven't contacted them
since they installed it.

I hope for your sake that the defects you mention are covered by the
guarantee. A typical DG 10 year guarantee often only covers the sealed
double-glazed units, that they should remain sealed and not be subject to
condensation of the collection of dust between the two panes of glass. Does
your guarantee cover workmanship and problems with frames and surrounding
masonry? If not, workmanship is covered by the Sale of Good Act, and if a
trader is not willing to remedy poor work then the small claims court route
is often the only answer.

All work etc provided by them are covered by their guarantee I
understand, but the insurance backing part of it (ie. if they go out of
business) is only for sealed units I believe.

Thanks

D

David Hearn wrote:
Phil L wrote:


What do you mean by 'reinforcement'? - aluminium? - what size,
length, shape etc, where were they situated before? - you said they
were on the cills?

Bay shape

+-----------+
/ \
/ \

The metal slotted inside the main cills section. The cills were made
off-site, welded into the bay shape from 3 pieces. I believe there
is a piece within the main long centre section, and 2 pieces in the 2
open ended pieces. The installer tapped on each open end and out
slid the aluminium inserts. I have still have both (somewhere in the
garage - certainly saw one the other day). I was told that as they
needed to adjust the length of the side pieces, they cannot do it
with the inserts and commonly throw them away.

The inserts are shaped like:
+------+
x | |
+- -+
y

With x being probably around 30mm? y is maybe 100mm or so. (Going
from distant memory!) Can't remember the length, but I think it's
18" to 2' or so.


They are only reinforcements for the profile of the window cills, they
cannot cause any kind of sagging in the frame itself

The load bearing corner pieces between the windows sit onto the cill
and are probably meant to be supported by the inserts, rather than
punch their way through. Although as they were square ended, they
probably don't extend right into the corner?

incorrect, the corner pieces are box steel sitting directly on the
stonework/brickwork, these provide support for the upper bay

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:42 +0000 David Hearn wrote :
So - what should be first steps? What should we insist on? I don't
want to have to pay an independent surveyor if we don't have to,
especially if ultimately they'll say it was installed badly, company
will deny it, go to court who might say I left it too long!

Ten year old page but possibly still relevant

http://www.expertexpert.com/bays.htm

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Phil L wrote:
David Hearn wrote:
Phil L wrote:

What do you mean by 'reinforcement'? - aluminium? - what size,
length, shape etc, where were they situated before? - you said they
were on the cills?
Bay shape

+-----------+
/ \
/ \

The metal slotted inside the main cills section. The cills were made
off-site, welded into the bay shape from 3 pieces. I believe there
is a piece within the main long centre section, and 2 pieces in the 2
open ended pieces. The installer tapped on each open end and out
slid the aluminium inserts. I have still have both (somewhere in the
garage - certainly saw one the other day). I was told that as they
needed to adjust the length of the side pieces, they cannot do it
with the inserts and commonly throw them away.

The inserts are shaped like:
+------+
x | |
+- -+
y

With x being probably around 30mm? y is maybe 100mm or so. (Going
from distant memory!) Can't remember the length, but I think it's
18" to 2' or so.


They are only reinforcements for the profile of the window cills, they
cannot cause any kind of sagging in the frame itself

Surely if the profile of the cill gets deformed, then whatever above it
will lower.

The load bearing corner pieces between the windows sit onto the cill
and are probably meant to be supported by the inserts, rather than
punch their way through. Although as they were square ended, they
probably don't extend right into the corner?

incorrect, the corner pieces are box steel sitting directly on the
stonework/brickwork, these provide support for the upper bay

The whole cill was pre-manufacturered and arrived on site as 1 piece.
Externally, the cill was just extruded uPVC, cut to correct angle and
welded together - any strengthening must be inside the cill corners.
The 'poles' (really just wedge pieces with metal inside) sit directly on
top of the uPVC cill. Cill site directly onto brickwork.

Whatever the construction, the cill is deformed/bowing, with the corners
where the 'poles' go lower than the centre of the window.

Thanks

D

Tony Bryer wrote:

Ten year old page but possibly still relevant

http://www.expertexpert.com/bays.htm

This is from that page perhaps the phone numbers at the end might be
updated he

In the 1930s, builders used windows with solid Hemlock mullions
[http://www.windowking.co.uk/help/mull_trans.php] at 2 ft centres,
supporting the structure above. The bay spandrel
[http://www.scholarsresource.com/imag...a/arc1285.jpg]
upper floor loading, perhaps even some main roof load, all transmitted
to the little bit of brickwork at the bottom of the bay.

At corners, they usually relied on the paired solid timber mullions to
act as posts; sometimes, for good measure, they installed extra posts
at bay points.

There was no need for a deep lintel to support loads from a 2 ft span,
so just a 4 inch (width) by 2 inch (height) wall plate was installed.

Three weeks later the job creaks, and cracks start to appear. The main
frame bows downward in the middle.

Consultants who take off some trim to see what's beneath and they
report: "Yes, the frames are reinforced - even the outer jambs. Yes,
there are 40mm OD bay poles at the points. Oh, yes they're
through-fixed to jamb reinforcement. And great, the heads of the bay
poles are in direct contact with the wall plate under the spandrel."

The heads of the bay poles were not always in such good contact with
the wall plate beneath the spandrel. They are now, because the upper
structure has moved down slightly and closed the gap at the top.

At the bottom, the poles are sitting on the cellular plastic sill,
trying to punch their way through, and it's distorted, not a lot, but
enough.

In a typical bay, removing the two intermediate mullions trebles the
effective span of the spandrel forcing its 4 x 2 inch wall plate to
behave as a real lintel.

The reinforcement doesn't go right into the corners. Then, because
they're 'replacement' units, there's just a little matter of the
clearance gaps all round the frames.

- Call the BPF (Tel: 0171 457 5000) and invest £50 in the finest
technical information available on the subject ; Code of Practice
(COP)3-A (Survey) and COP 3-B (Installation), prepared jointly by the
GGF and the BPF's Windows Group. Also call the GGF (Tel: 0171 403 7177)
for a copy of the Data Sheet 6.2.

- Calculate the required inertia for bay poles and lintels, and talk to
a local steel/aluminium supplier about stock sections, or maybe to Cego
Engineering (Crittall) Tel: 01376-583241 (Alex McShaffery) about their
adjustable 'jacking' bay poles and spigot plates.

- Support the floor, spandrel and other loads above.

- Take out the frames.

- Jack up the spandrel a smidgen.

- Install the lintel (probably a steel angle if that fits the case) to
accept and distribute the former mullion loads.

- Install a spigoted steel plate at the bottom making full contact with
the brickwork.
- Cut or drill the sill to allow the poles to pass through to the
brickwork.

- Install some proper bay poles (expanding or shimmed).

- Back go the frames!

An whole gang of proprietors know little more than how to buy and sell
things and keep accounts; they engage untrained 'fitters' off the
street, who commit the same simple technical boobs time and again.