Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

wrote:
Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!


If you want a proper job then conrete posts with gravel boards at the
bottom,.panels slotted into them. Hire a petrol post hole borer and
have a mixerfull of concrete for each post to make sure it aint going
anywhere, I used 9ft posts with 7ft "out" with 1ft of gravel board and
6ft of vertical panel fence, looks the biz, and when the panels fail I
can just slot a new one in :-)

wrote:
Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Watch out for the post borer - great fun until it's kicked-back on you a few
times.

Steve Walker wrote:
wrote:
Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Watch out for the post borer - great fun until it's kicked-back on you a few
times.

Agreed, I'm over 16st and it flew me round a couple of times :-)

"Staffbull" wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve Walker wrote:
wrote:
Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Watch out for the post borer - great fun until it's kicked-back on you a
few
times.

Agreed, I'm over 16st and it flew me round a couple of times :-)


****, I was thinking of hiring one in the next few months. Don't they have
some sort of safety clutch?

H

"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...
....
If you want a proper job then conrete posts with gravel boards at the
bottom,.panels slotted into them. Hire a petrol post hole borer and
have a mixerfull of concrete for each post to make sure it aint going
anywhere, I used 9ft posts with 7ft "out" with 1ft of gravel board and
6ft of vertical panel fence, looks the biz, and when the panels fail I
can just slot a new one in :-)

Fences over 2 metres high require planning permission.

Colin Bignell

nightjar wrote:
"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...
...
If you want a proper job then conrete posts with gravel boards at the
bottom,.panels slotted into them. Hire a petrol post hole borer and
have a mixerfull of concrete for each post to make sure it aint going
anywhere, I used 9ft posts with 7ft "out" with 1ft of gravel board and
6ft of vertical panel fence, looks the biz, and when the panels fail I
can just slot a new one in :-)

Fences over 2 metres high require planning permission.

Colin Bignell

You are also required to stick to the speed limits, but thousands get
done every day !! who cares about 6 in !! :-)

Staffbull wrote:
nightjar wrote:
"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...
...
If you want a proper job then conrete posts with gravel boards at the
bottom,.panels slotted into them. Hire a petrol post hole borer and
have a mixerfull of concrete for each post to make sure it aint going
anywhere, I used 9ft posts with 7ft "out" with 1ft of gravel board and
6ft of vertical panel fence, looks the biz, and when the panels fail I
can just slot a new one in :-)
Fences over 2 metres high require planning permission.

Colin Bignell

You are also required to stick to the speed limits, but thousands get
done every day !! who cares about 6 in !! :-)


Concrete gravel boards that slot into the posts make the spacing a
doddle I would have thought.

wrote:

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

The cheapskate way that I have always done it is to use a 4" hand
operated posthole borer, and bore down 3'. Drop 3"x4"x9' posts in and
tamp soil in firmly with a piece of 1" pipe.
My fences have lasted 30 years so far without leaning over. If you ever
want to pull the posts out one day, there isn't a bloody great lump of
concrete on the end of them.

If you do use a powered borer you should hold it so that you can let it
go if the handles suddenly start revolving

wrote:

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.


Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Use the special Fast Post Fixing Concrete mix that Wickes (or others
sell).

Drop the post in the hole and get a mate to hold it upright throughout.

Split the bag and pour it down the hole and round the post.

Pour in water from a watering can, (no need to mix). Rock solid in
about 3-5mins.
Dont believe me? Try it?

****, I was thinking of hiring one in the next few months. Don't they have
some sort of safety clutch?

I've hired these a few times. They have a centrafugal clutch that engages
when the engine speed rises above tickover. The throttle lever *should* be
spring loaded so if you let go it instantly returns to tickover and stops.

One of the ones I hired was missing the spring - and didn't stop when let
go..... And while boring a 10" hole hit a large flint that caused the argor
to stop dead and the machine complete with engine and me hanging on to spin
round wildly, whilst trying to get to the throttle (on the opposite handle
from me being a 2 man machine) to try and stop it! Several bruses gained
that day.

Alan.

Bookworm wrote:
wrote:

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.


Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Use the special Fast Post Fixing Concrete mix that Wickes (or others
sell).

Drop the post in the hole and get a mate to hold it upright throughout.

Split the bag and pour it down the hole and round the post.

Pour in water from a watering can, (no need to mix). Rock solid in
about 3-5mins.
Dont believe me? Try it?

I beleive you, but how much each? a fiver or so? and for a couple of
shovels of concrete!! get a dumpy bag delivered and five bags of the
finest portland, and flex ure biceps, it'll save you a fortune :-)

I can never beleive the price they charge for pre mixed stuff, I saw a
bag of pre mixed cement in B&Q not long ago for £7 !!! bloody crazy

"Staffbull" wrote in message
ups.com...

nightjar wrote:
"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...
...
If you want a proper job then conrete posts with gravel boards at the
bottom,.panels slotted into them. Hire a petrol post hole borer and
have a mixerfull of concrete for each post to make sure it aint going
anywhere, I used 9ft posts with 7ft "out" with 1ft of gravel board and
6ft of vertical panel fence, looks the biz, and when the panels fail I
can just slot a new one in :-)

Fences over 2 metres high require planning permission.

Colin Bignell

You are also required to stick to the speed limits, but thousands get
done every day !! who cares about 6 in !! :-)

To judge by the boundary disputes that go on, quite a lot of people do.
However, I was mainly posting as a warning to the OP. As with speeding, it
is a matter of personal choice as to whether to break the law, but it helps
if you know what the law is to begin with.

Colin Bignell

Staffbull wrote:
Bookworm wrote:

wrote:


So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.


Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Use the special Fast Post Fixing Concrete mix that Wickes (or others
sell).

Drop the post in the hole and get a mate to hold it upright throughout.

Split the bag and pour it down the hole and round the post.

Pour in water from a watering can, (no need to mix). Rock solid in
about 3-5mins.
Dont believe me? Try it?


I beleive you, but how much each? a fiver or so? and for a couple of
shovels of concrete!! get a dumpy bag delivered and five bags of the
finest portland, and flex ure biceps, it'll save you a fortune :-)

I can never beleive the price they charge for pre mixed stuff, I saw a
bag of pre mixed cement in B&Q not long ago for £7 !!! bloody crazy


I know that it is too expensive but it does a brilliant job when you
need to do a quick job.

I used half a bag of "postcrete" per pole to get a rigid support within
15 mins and then filled the rest with wet concrete left to cure.

Result was very good and meant that minimal bracing was adequate to
support the posts as the concrete cured.

One tip: ignore the instructions to just pour the mix into a hole half
filled with water but find an old bit of wood and give the water
postcrete mix a good stir.

Steve

Staffbull wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
wrote:

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.


Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

Use the special Fast Post Fixing Concrete mix that Wickes (or others
sell).

Drop the post in the hole and get a mate to hold it upright
throughout.

Split the bag and pour it down the hole and round the post.

Pour in water from a watering can, (no need to mix). Rock solid in
about 3-5mins.
Dont believe me? Try it?

I beleive you, but how much each? a fiver or so? and for a couple of
shovels of concrete!! get a dumpy bag delivered and five bags of the
finest portland, and flex ure biceps, it'll save you a fortune :-)

£3:49 a bag in Wickes. I agree with Bookworm, bloody wonderfull stuff.
Trouble with concrete is the setting time.

Whilst the OP is in Wickes buying the Postcrete I'd suggest buying one of
these post hole diggers http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/501584 and a demolition
crowbar http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/167422

I use this combination all the time. Post hole digger gives a nice neat
tight hole (oooh errr missus) and the crowbar persuades any rocks or stones
to give in.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cur a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Note - simple garden fence - live expectancy 5 years minimum. Posts &
"Premium" Panels fom Wickes. Posts will be as delivered - e.g.
pressure treated from supplier.
Note 2 - the last fence put up in 20 mins (ish!!) with metpost and
cheap as sh*t panels lasted 10 years.



wrote:
Due to (a) the weather; (b) sodding vandals; and (c) 10 years of no
maintenance, I need to replace a garden fence.

QUite simply its a straight run, 6' tall, and needs 7 x 6' panels.

The original fence was put up with metpost....

So - thinking of doing a better job and looking for tips.

Thinking of hiring a "post hole cutter" to simply drill a big hole and
drop a post in SIMPLE! I'm obviously assuming a 2-man device will
be pretty straight down. And I'm told if you cut a hole you just drop
a post in. So - 6' fence, assuming need to bury post 3' down? (so 9'
posts?) The post will be a snug fit (so I'm told) - but what do you
fill the gaps with? Or don't bother?

It'll be me and my father helping out - so have 2 "men"

Assuming it will take 15-20 mins per panel? (if so - may also do
another run of 8 panels whilst we've got the tool on hire)

Advice/things to avoid/and tips most welcome!

On 2006-11-14 15:13:24 +0000, said:

OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cur a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Note - simple garden fence - live expectancy 5 years minimum. Posts &
"Premium" Panels fom Wickes. Posts will be as delivered - e.g.
pressure treated from supplier.
Note 2 - the last fence put up in 20 mins (ish!!) with metpost and
cheap as sh*t panels lasted 10 years.



Are you using concrete posts? If not and they are wood then standing
them in a solvent preservative is a good plan.

However, since the main cost is labour it makes much more sense to do
the job properly and use concrete posts. The wooden posts are
going to rot either way and 10yr life is typical.

Andy Hall wrote:

However, since the main cost is labour it makes much more sense to do
the job properly and use concrete posts. The wooden posts are
going to rot either way and 10yr life is typical.

Concrete posts do add a lot to the labour aspect, especially if working
alone. Much heavier, anything above about 8' is really a two man lift.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

wrote:
OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cut a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Personally I'd concrete them in. Use Postcrete or similar.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2006-11-14 20:13:32 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:

However, since the main cost is labour it makes much more sense to do
the job properly and use concrete posts. The wooden posts are
going to rot either way and 10yr life is typical.

Concrete posts do add a lot to the labour aspect, especially if working
alone. Much heavier, anything above about 8' is really a two man lift.

True.

However, let's say wooden posts are 10 year life, concrete are probably 30.

Cost of materials a little more but in the context of the project not a lot.

Projected cost of labour ten years in the future is almost certainly
more than the difference in cost
between wooden and concrete posts.

wrote:

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

You do need to at least ram earth down each side of the post. Because
it's a square post and a round hole, there is a gap on all four sides,
and you can ram the earth that you removed from the hole back in there
using a long piece of pipe. You could put concrete down there instead
but I don't think a small amount of concrete is any better than earth.
I assume that you are going to use timber treated for use in the
ground, called H4 in NZ. I have never had H4 timber go rotten.
If you want a top job then a large lump of concrete surrounding the
post will make it last longer than just 50 years.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-11-14 20:13:32 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:

However, since the main cost is labour it makes much more sense to
do the job properly and use concrete posts. The wooden posts
are going to rot either way and 10yr life is typical.

Concrete posts do add a lot to the labour aspect, especially if
working alone. Much heavier, anything above about 8' is really a
two man lift.

True.

However, let's say wooden posts are 10 year life, concrete are
probably 30.
Cost of materials a little more but in the context of the project not
a lot.
Projected cost of labour ten years in the future is almost certainly
more than the difference in cost
between wooden and concrete posts.

That is a really good point - as long as the home owner intends to stay for
long enough.

I find that people like the idea of concrete posts even though they cost
twice as much. As you say, its the labour cost & that extra cost can put
them off.

I add 50% to my labour estimate for concrete posts and another 20% if they
want concrete gravel boards.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cut a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Personally I'd concrete them in. Use Postcrete or similar.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

I'm considering putting up a fence, and while browsing a local supplier,
found they sold plastic posts - UPVC coloured brown or green. They're shaped
rather like concrete posts with a double groove to slot in the panels. These
seem to be a good idea as they have all the advantages of concrete without
the weight. Anybody come across these or used them? They also sell matching
gravel boards. Can't remember the name of the manufacturer.

John Miller

Wood

Will only be in house for 4-5 years MAX

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2006-11-14 15:13:24 +0000, said:

OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cur a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Note - simple garden fence - live expectancy 5 years minimum. Posts &
"Premium" Panels fom Wickes. Posts will be as delivered - e.g.
pressure treated from supplier.
Note 2 - the last fence put up in 20 mins (ish!!) with metpost and
cheap as sh*t panels lasted 10 years.



Are you using concrete posts? If not and they are wood then standing
them in a solvent preservative is a good plan.

However, since the main cost is labour it makes much more sense to do
the job properly and use concrete posts. The wooden posts are
going to rot either way and 10yr life is typical.

That may be the better solution - but would (A) be good enough for 5
years?

If not - how big a hole would you suggest? And just fill with normal
balast?

(As an aside - another mate says use gravel and not concrete as it
helps the water drain awyay and prevents rot!)

lol!

Why isn't there a simple answer

The Medway Handyman wrote:

wrote:
OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cut a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Personally I'd concrete them in. Use Postcrete or similar.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Dave

Slightly off topic - just thought I'd say what a great website! OK -
not in the technical web department, but must go as (appearing to be)
one of the most honest and clear websites I've seen. If only more were
like that!

RJ

The Medway Handyman wrote:

wrote:
OK - thanks everyone - much apprecaited.

Sorted on the fencing and I am going to hire a post-borer machine

I have 2 people telling me different things;:-

A says: cut a neat 100mm hole 33% as deep as the hight of the fence
(e.g. 2' for a 6' fence) and put in a 100mm x 100mm post straight in
and dont to anything else

B says: cut a big hole (200mm +) put in post and fill with concrete.

Are both correct or is one wrong?

Personally I'd concrete them in. Use Postcrete or similar.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

wrote:
Dave

Slightly off topic - just thought I'd say what a great website! OK -
not in the technical web department, but must go as (appearing to be)
one of the most honest and clear websites I've seen. If only more
were like that!

Thanks Ryan, the punters seem to like it as well!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257