Hello all,

Haven't posted here or even lurked for more
than a year, and my news server is showing
over 300,000 unread messages! Good to see
a few familiar names though.

Anyway, I am building a pergola using the designs
on http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur07.htm

I noticed that the posts are approximately
2.8m long, but only about 0.5m is in the
ground. For fence posts I have always been
told that a quarter of the post should be in
the ground, and this is less than a fifth.

Do you think this is because there isn't as
much lateral force on a pergola (due to wind)
so it does not need as much to stop the post
moving as with a fence? I guess with all the
braces the pergola could be pretty much
free-standing, so the main thing is to keep it
in the same position in the ground.

Also, would it matter if the holes were tapered
slightly so they get narrower at the bottom?

Also, I will probably use a post fix concrete
like Hanson PostFix or Blue Circle Postcrete
because I have too much money and not enough
experience of mixing mortars. Do you have
any views on whether either of these is a
superior product?

Sorry for all the questions! Thanks in
advance for any help you can offer.

Al Reynolds

Al Reynolds wrote:
Hello all,

Haven't posted here or even lurked for more
than a year, and my news server is showing
over 300,000 unread messages! Good to see
a few familiar names though.

Anyway, I am building a pergola using the designs
on http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur07.htm

I noticed that the posts are approximately
2.8m long, but only about 0.5m is in the
ground. For fence posts I have always been
told that a quarter of the post should be in
the ground, and this is less than a fifth.

Do you think this is because there isn't as
much lateral force on a pergola (due to wind)
so it does not need as much to stop the post
moving as with a fence? I guess with all the
braces the pergola could be pretty much
free-standing, so the main thing is to keep it
in the same position in the ground.

Also, would it matter if the holes were tapered
slightly so they get narrower at the bottom?

Also, I will probably use a post fix concrete
like Hanson PostFix or Blue Circle Postcrete
because I have too much money and not enough
experience of mixing mortars. Do you have
any views on whether either of these is a
superior product?

Sorry for all the questions! Thanks in
advance for any help you can offer.

Al Reynolds

Don't buy named concrete or mortar mixes, just use plain old cement at £3 a
bag, for each 25kg bag you'll need 2 sand and four stone, you can mix it wet
or dry, litterally no water at all and it will still set rock hard through
natural absorption.

I should imagine 500mm is ample, it's not a swing / gatepost / fencepost
after all and shouldn't be under too much stress.....I would be inclined to
get as much preservative into the legs prior to concreting though...leave
each one resting in a bucket of creosote overnight or something similar,
also place a few inches of concrete at the bottom of each hole first so that
the end grain isn't sitting in wet soil, then concrete almost level to the
top of the hole, thus protecting almost all of the timber below ground.

Al Reynolds wrote:

Anyway, I am building a pergola using the designs
on http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur07.htm

I noticed that the posts are approximately
2.8m long, but only about 0.5m is in the
ground. For fence posts I have always been
told that a quarter of the post should be in
the ground, and this is less than a fifth.

It shows a 2.8m post burried to give a min height of 2.1m, so you have 700mm
in the ground, more than enough for a pergols I would have thought. Don't
think you will find 2.8m posts though, they tend to be 2.1, 2.4, 2.7. 3.0m.

Also, would it matter if the holes were tapered
slightly so they get narrower at the bottom?

Hire or buy (about £17) a post hole digger
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/501584&bklist= You wouldn't believe how
effecitive & easy they are.

Also, I will probably use a post fix concrete
like Hanson PostFix or Blue Circle Postcrete
because I have too much money and not enough
experience of mixing mortars. Do you have
any views on whether either of these is a
superior product?

Sorry to disagree with Phil L, but these products are excellent & well worth
the money. I use Wickes Postcrete http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/221100 one
bag per post. Sets in 10 mins & gives a very strong fixing.




--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

Haven't posted here or even lurked for more
than a year, and my news server is showing
over 300,000 unread messages! Good to see
a few familiar names though.

Anyway, I am building a pergola using the designs
on http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur07.htm

I noticed that the posts are approximately
2.8m long, but only about 0.5m is in the
ground. For fence posts I have always been
told that a quarter of the post should be in
the ground, and this is less than a fifth.

Do you think this is because there isn't as
much lateral force on a pergola (due to wind)
so it does not need as much to stop the post
moving as with a fence? I guess with all the
braces the pergola could be pretty much
free-standing, so the main thing is to keep it
in the same position in the ground.

Also, would it matter if the holes were tapered
slightly so they get narrower at the bottom?

Also, I will probably use a post fix concrete
like Hanson PostFix or Blue Circle Postcrete
because I have too much money and not enough
experience of mixing mortars. Do you have
any views on whether either of these is a
superior product?

Sorry for all the questions! Thanks in
advance for any help you can offer.

Al Reynolds


600mm in the ground is enough. Once fully constructed the pergola is very
solid and the posts should not take too much strain. Accurate placement is
the key to successful installation in my experience - you cannot measure too
often. The rest of the job is then easy. Ensure there is drainage at the
bottom and if you can slope the concrete at the top away from the post so
water drains. We used 80% of a bag of Blue Circle postcrete on each post and
a few old broken bricks as packing and it worked really well. The dry mix
method would work too and probably be cheaper. At the risk of being a bit
radical though, I am not totally persuaded that you will need to concrete
the posts in given the minimum loading on them assuming tha you are building
a double pergola.

It is important that cut surfaces are properly treated with preservative. We
bought our pergola as a kit from Jacksons fencing - they are possibly
expensive but worked well and they were helpful. Check pieces are straight
though, and avoid the sell of too many bags of nails to fix it. We had six
bays and used just over one bag of 3" and just over one bag of 4" nails to
complete it.

HTH

Thanks for the advice people - all useful as ever.

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

Cheers,
Al

The message
from "Al Reynolds" contains these words:

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

The other way up would be better.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Al Reynolds wrote:
Thanks for the advice people - all useful as ever.

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

Why?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Al Reynolds wrote:
Thanks for the advice people - all useful as ever.

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

Why?

Because digging the buggers is a problem.

No; a small taper will not hurt. But I am with the poster who thinks
you don't need to bother too much. After all a shed isn't set in stone
is it?

The biggest problem with using concrete is that after the legs
eventually rot away, they will be a real pain to repair or replace.
Double what you think is enough preservative and chuck a few bits of
copper in the hole for the post to sit on.

Talking of setting posts:

An interesting foible on the new road junction through Stoke is the
concrete fencing they put on one of the small "off" ramps there. The
posts are RSJs set in concrete which is formed in those plastic
inspection "pipes".

The fence abuts a canal some 7 feet down the other side and the whole
lot is just made up with infill. (Spoil from the rest of the site(?)
and some top soil.)

It looks like a small bump from a little old lady out for a drive one
Sunday afternoon could send it all in the water.

I imagine they have done their sums right though. I wish I had a photo
to show you. The fence is some 6 or 7 feet higher again, so there will
be a lot of sail area to catch the winds. (Not a very windy place
though, the Miglans.) So you are walking under a 14 foot virtual cliff
if you take a stroll to the shops along the cut.

It doesn't look right at all.

Still, for 40-odd million quid, what do you expect these days?
Landscape?

Weatherlawyer wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Al Reynolds wrote:
Thanks for the advice people - all useful as ever.

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

Why?

Because digging the buggers is a problem.

Post hole digger - damn near perfect tubula holes.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Al Reynolds wrote:

Any thoughts on the hole being tapered? They're
about 11" diameter at the top and 7" at the bottom
at the moment.

Why?

Because digging the buggers is a problem.

Post hole digger - damn near perfect tubula holes.

Substituting a foreskin for farsight will not make you see more than a
prick.