Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

The message . uk
from Ed Sirett contains these words:

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

I've not yet found one that won't.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:32:28 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

Don't even try. The only thing that is compatible is the rail fitting
(sometimes) and the terminal for the wire. Virtually every
manufacturer seems to use their own busbar setup. MK even have two
incompatible busbar systems - old and new.


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:32:28 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

Don't even try. The only thing that is compatible is the rail fitting
(sometimes) and the terminal for the wire. Virtually every
manufacturer seems to use their own busbar setup. MK even have two
incompatible busbar systems - old and new.


Seconded

The message
from Matt contains these words:

Don't even try.

I must have been very lucky then. I've fitted perhaps half a dozen over
the years and they've always just plugged in. I don't recall any of them
being the "correct" ones.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Ed Sirett wrote:

Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

Sort answer is it depends. Often you can, but there are plenty of
exceptions.

I started a thread about this last year... Alas it never got much
interest. However it may help:

http://tinyurl.com/7whpd


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Matt wrote:

MK even have two incompatible busbar systems - old and new.

Three, actually:

(i) the original type with U-slotted fingers for Siemens MCBs;

(ii) single finger type when they changed to Merlin Gerin components c.
1992 - this type had a wider finger for the incomer connection and
finger bent over at 90 deg. from the bar;

(iii) the current K type, flat with all fingers the same and generally a
bit thinner and cheaper-feeling.

--
Andy

Ed Sirett wrote:
Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

Always worth a try.
From the budget screwfix range; Marbo and Volex are fully
interchangeable. In fact put the MCB's side by side and they even have
the same markings on the side. I guess produced in the same factory and
then badged accordingly. GE and Steeple being another example where by
they are almost identical and I have found to be interchangeable with
the Marbo/ Volex. Hager slightly different but will usually fit.
Crabtree totally on there own with there own unique plug in MCB's. I
know from previous threads that this has been favoured by some and with
the more ample head room in the CU for terminations. For me it is a
concern as if any thing went wrong in years to come what will the
availability of breakers be? As for other makes I cannot comment. It
has been a while since I have fitted a Wylex or MK board. Shame really
because I would have tthought that these would be the better items.
However in this day and age it seems that the price appears to be more
important to the customer, especially when the products work. Unlike
boilers I suspect?
Ed, A friend of mine used to fit a lot of WB but has changed to
Vaillant cos he reckons that the circuit boards were more suspectable
in the WB. But I also know that the rep messed him around a bit and
there may be some sour grapes. I would be particularly interested if
you have fitted many and if you have noticed any failure patterns. Soon
to choose my own system boiler and I cannot choose between the two.

Regards
Legin

Ed Sirett wrote:
Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

My answer would be somewhere between the first too, try it and it may
be OK. The usual problem is incompatible bus bars.

--
Chris Green

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

They usually fit (but not always, and sometimes with cosmetic issues).
However, they often come with dire warnings not to mix manufacturers'
products as it invalidates the type approval. This alone might cause the
panel to fail inspection.

Christian.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.


Wylex and MK will fit the same DIN rail in a MK box but the bus bars are
quite different, I don't think they would mix.

H

HLAH wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.


Wylex and MK will fit the same DIN rail in a MK box but the bus bars are
quite different, I don't think they would mix.

H

They do mix but you need to bend the busbar. It's OK if you can group
the same type together then you only need one bend.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:37:53 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

They usually fit (but not always, and sometimes with cosmetic issues).
However, they often come with dire warnings not to mix manufacturers'
products as it invalidates the type approval. This alone might cause the
panel to fail inspection.

In this case we have a number of issues and the panel failing it's type
approval would be the least of my concerns with the unit.

1) The downstairs sockets, alarm and immersion on the non-RCD
2) We have all the lighting and the rest of the sockets on the RCD side.
3) The 20A double oven was wired as an unfused spur direct off the 32A
ring.
4) There are blank plates missing in the spare ways on the breaker box.

etc.etc.





--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

In article ,
Andy Wade writes:
Matt wrote:

MK even have two incompatible busbar systems - old and new.

Three, actually:

(i) the original type with U-slotted fingers for Siemens MCBs;

(ii) single finger type when they changed to Merlin Gerin components c.
1992 - this type had a wider finger for the incomer connection and
finger bent over at 90 deg. from the bar;

(iii) the current K type, flat with all fingers the same and generally a
bit thinner and cheaper-feeling.

Whilst I generally rate MK accessories very highly, I have never
had the same high regard for their CU's -- they've been just "OK"
by my rating. Their current design of domestic plastic CU's is
definately a much cheaper-feeling product than the previous ones
with the clear plastic access door. I have bought the occasional
one to use as a DIN rail enclosure, but not as a CU. I suspect
the issue with their CU range is that they don't make much/any of
it, but feel they have to have CU's in their product range or it
would be incomplete. Dependance on others is probably why they've
run though a number of different styles.

For the last couple of domestic CU's I've fitted, I have chosen
commercial grade CU's which are just so much better made and more
amply sized, it's a real pleasure to work with them. I've used the
MEM (now call Eaton) Memshield2 range. This will cost you more
than a domestic plastic CU, but as I do DIY to get a better quality
result, I don't mind paying for quality.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
"Christian McArdle" writes:
Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

They usually fit (but not always, and sometimes with cosmetic issues).
However, they often come with dire warnings not to mix manufacturers'
products as it invalidates the type approval. This alone might cause the
panel to fail inspection.

This is something the US is very hot on* (UL type approval applies
to a combination of breaker and enclosure, and is voided by using
an enclosure the manufacturer didn't include for certification),
but providing the accessories fit properly, I've never seen this
regarded as an issue here.

* If you look in a US panel, you'll be horrified, and relieved it
wouldn't come close to getting approval in the EU.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:45:50 +0100, Andy Wade
wrote:

Matt wrote:

MK even have two incompatible busbar systems - old and new.

Three, actually:

(i) the original type with U-slotted fingers for Siemens MCBs;

(ii) single finger type when they changed to Merlin Gerin components c.
1992 - this type had a wider finger for the incomer connection and
finger bent over at 90 deg. from the bar;

(iii) the current K type, flat with all fingers the same and generally a
bit thinner and cheaper-feeling.

I stand corrected. I must have somehow missed the middle iteration
completely.

I just found an RCD on one of the earlier types that works with a
pushbutton test but fails when tested at a socket. It's probably a
dead cert the really old RCD's are no longer available!




--

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

* If you look in a US panel, you'll be horrified, and relieved it
wouldn't come close to getting approval in the EU.

Plenty here...
http://electrical-contractor.net/cgi...er=4&SUBMIT=Go

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Ed Sirett
saying something like:

Question as per title.

Is the answer don't even try. Or usually OK. Or always OK.

They'll physically fit - the whole point of the DIN rail is
standardisation - but the electrical connections might or might not line
up. Most modern ones will interchange, but a mix of old and new might
not. Not a real problem is all you have is an oddball one that works and
will get the system back up and running- you can wire it in one way or
other.
--

Dave