We have three electrically opened garage doors, currently they are
simply plugged into sockets in the garage which are fed by the RCD
protected side of a split load CU.

Since our garden electrics are also fed from the same side of the
split load unit it means that anything that goes awry in the garden
and trips the RCD also stops the garage doors working which can be a
bit of a nuisance (especially since the CU is in one of the garages!).
It's not a disaster because there's a alternative access to the garage
but it would be good if we could split the garage doors off the RCD
protected circuits - or at least split them off the same circuit as
the garden, pond, etc.

So what are the allowed/correct ways of doing this?

Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

Similar to the above I could dedicate a circuit to the garage door
openers and not have them on sockets at all but I suspect that
this then requires a double pole switch for each to allow it to
be isolated. A bit more expensive but not much.

The most expensive solution is to dedicate an RCBO (combined RCD
and MCB in other words) to either the garden/pond or the garage
doors and add this to the CU on the non-RCD side. I suppose it's
the ideal solution but will cost thirty or forty pounds. It is
also the simplest solution in that it only involves moving some
wires in the CU.

..... and yes, I know it's probably part P'able.

--
Chris Green

wrote:

We have three electrically opened garage doors, currently they are
simply plugged into sockets in the garage which are fed by the RCD
protected side of a split load CU.

Since our garden electrics are also fed from the same side of the
split load unit it means that anything that goes awry in the garden
and trips the RCD also stops the garage doors working which can be a
bit of a nuisance (especially since the CU is in one of the garages!).
It's not a disaster because there's a alternative access to the garage
but it would be good if we could split the garage doors off the RCD
protected circuits - or at least split them off the same circuit as
the garden, pond, etc.

So what are the allowed/correct ways of doing this?

Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

Similar to the above I could dedicate a circuit to the garage door
openers and not have them on sockets at all but I suspect that
this then requires a double pole switch for each to allow it to
be isolated. A bit more expensive but not much.

The most expensive solution is to dedicate an RCBO (combined RCD
and MCB in other words) to either the garden/pond or the garage
doors and add this to the CU on the non-RCD side. I suppose it's
the ideal solution but will cost thirty or forty pounds. It is
also the simplest solution in that it only involves moving some
wires in the CU.

.... and yes, I know it's probably part P'able.

--
For me changing the existing sockets to the non RCD side of the CU
would be adequate provided you put a notice next to the other sockets
say something like "Sockets must not be used for outdoor equipment".
After all the regs speak of sockets that might reasonably be expected
to be used for outdoor equipment and to my mind it is not reasonable to
use a socket with such a notice on it. But he part P inspector might
have differnat views. But I wouldn't be bothering to notify :-)

I think that the most cost effective way to satisfy every jobsworth
would be to run a new non RCD circuit to a fused/switched connection
unit near the unit. Cost about a tenner to do that yourself

Of course if you are going th inspected route the cost of the job is
trivial compared with the cost of inspection so you might as fell fit a
dedicated RCD.

On 2006-10-08 10:26:25 +0100, said:

We have three electrically opened garage doors, currently they are
simply plugged into sockets in the garage which are fed by the RCD
protected side of a split load CU.

Since our garden electrics are also fed from the same side of the
split load unit it means that anything that goes awry in the garden
and trips the RCD also stops the garage doors working which can be a
bit of a nuisance (especially since the CU is in one of the garages!).
It's not a disaster because there's a alternative access to the garage
but it would be good if we could split the garage doors off the RCD
protected circuits - or at least split them off the same circuit as
the garden, pond, etc.

So what are the allowed/correct ways of doing this?

Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

Similar to the above I could dedicate a circuit to the garage door
openers and not have them on sockets at all but I suspect that
this then requires a double pole switch for each to allow it to
be isolated. A bit more expensive but not much.

The most expensive solution is to dedicate an RCBO (combined RCD
and MCB in other words) to either the garden/pond or the garage
doors and add this to the CU on the non-RCD side. I suppose it's
the ideal solution but will cost thirty or forty pounds. It is
also the simplest solution in that it only involves moving some
wires in the CU.

.... and yes, I know it's probably part P'able.

I don't have this exact issue but I addressed the wiring arrangement by
running a circuit from the house CU and installing a CU in the garage.

I then followed the house principles but used radial circuits.

- Lighting and emergency lighting is run from the non-RCD side

- Large fixed machinery is fed through isolators and IEC 60309 32A
outlets (also non RCD side)

- Smaller fixed machinery is fed through isolators and IEC60309 16A
outlets (RCD side)

- Several radial circuits with BS1363A outlets are fed from 16A MCBs (RCD side)


At one point, I had a freezer in the garage. That was fitted with a
modified BS1363A plug (MK make them with T-shaped earth pin) and had a
dedicated socket and circuit, non-RCD. This prevents portable
equipment being plugged into the non-RCD outlet.

Probably the last of these is the least expensive approach, especially
if the garage is joined to the house.

In article ,
wrote:
Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

I'd change them to spur units or use a non 13 amp plug.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

dcbwhaley wrote:

wrote:

We have three electrically opened garage doors, currently they are
simply plugged into sockets in the garage which are fed by the RCD
protected side of a split load CU.

Since our garden electrics are also fed from the same side of the
split load unit it means that anything that goes awry in the garden
and trips the RCD also stops the garage doors working which can be a
bit of a nuisance (especially since the CU is in one of the garages!).
It's not a disaster because there's a alternative access to the garage
but it would be good if we could split the garage doors off the RCD
protected circuits - or at least split them off the same circuit as
the garden, pond, etc.

So what are the allowed/correct ways of doing this?

Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

Similar to the above I could dedicate a circuit to the garage door
openers and not have them on sockets at all but I suspect that
this then requires a double pole switch for each to allow it to
be isolated. A bit more expensive but not much.

The most expensive solution is to dedicate an RCBO (combined RCD
and MCB in other words) to either the garden/pond or the garage
doors and add this to the CU on the non-RCD side. I suppose it's
the ideal solution but will cost thirty or forty pounds. It is
also the simplest solution in that it only involves moving some
wires in the CU.

.... and yes, I know it's probably part P'able.

--
For me changing the existing sockets to the non RCD side of the CU
would be adequate provided you put a notice next to the other sockets

There wouldn't be any "other sockets", I'd dedicate a circuit to the
three doors.

say something like "Sockets must not be used for outdoor equipment".
After all the regs speak of sockets that might reasonably be expected
to be used for outdoor equipment and to my mind it is not reasonable to
use a socket with such a notice on it. But he part P inspector might
have differnat views. But I wouldn't be bothering to notify :-)

Quite ( part P).

I think that the most cost effective way to satisfy every jobsworth
would be to run a new non RCD circuit to a fused/switched connection
unit near the unit. Cost about a tenner to do that yourself

A bit more than that as there are three of them.

Of course if you are going th inspected route the cost of the job is
trivial compared with the cost of inspection so you might as fell fit a
dedicated RCD.

I might go that way anyway having thought about the effort involved,
I'll just shop around for a cheap[ish] rcbo.

--
Chris Green

Andy Hall wrote:

- Several radial circuits with BS1363A outlets are fed from 16A MCBs (RCD side)

That's the way it is at the moment and is what causes the problem.


At one point, I had a freezer in the garage. That was fitted with a
modified BS1363A plug (MK make them with T-shaped earth pin) and had a
dedicated socket and circuit, non-RCD. This prevents portable
equipment being plugged into the non-RCD outlet.

I could do that but it seems a little OTT, especially as the three
sockets in question are out of reach unless you climb a ladder.


Probably the last of these is the least expensive approach, especially
if the garage is joined to the house.

It's not, the CU I'm talking about is entirely separate from the house
CU and feeds only garages and garden.

--
Chris Green

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Can I used a dedicated, non-RCD protected circuit for the garage
doors? The existing sockets are mounted on the rafters adjacent
to the door opening gear so are hardly likely to be used for
'portable equipment out of doors'. Is it OK to have these three
dedicated sockets non-RCD protected even though they're in a
garage? This is the cheapest way to fix the problem, I have
spare circuits on the non-RCD side of the CU.

I'd change them to spur units or use a non 13 amp plug.

For three door openers it'll be cheaper (and certainly easier) simply
to move the garage sockets onto their own RCBO. (Or move the garden
onto a dedicated RCBO circuit).

--
Chris Green

On 2006-10-08 13:46:34 +0100, said:

Andy Hall wrote:

- Several radial circuits with BS1363A outlets are fed from 16A MCBs (RCD side)

That's the way it is at the moment and is what causes the problem.


At one point, I had a freezer in the garage. That was fitted with a
modified BS1363A plug (MK make them with T-shaped earth pin) and had a
dedicated socket and circuit, non-RCD. This prevents portable
equipment being plugged into the non-RCD outlet.

I could do that but it seems a little OTT, especially as the three
sockets in question are out of reach unless you climb a ladder.

OK, well probably not needed.




Probably the last of these is the least expensive approach, especially
if the garage is joined to the house.

It's not, the CU I'm talking about is entirely separate from the house
CU and feeds only garages and garden.

In that case perhaps a separate RCBO to split things apart?

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-08 13:46:34 +0100, said:

Andy Hall wrote:

- Several radial circuits with BS1363A outlets are fed from 16A MCBs (RCD side)

That's the way it is at the moment and is what causes the problem.


At one point, I had a freezer in the garage. That was fitted with a
modified BS1363A plug (MK make them with T-shaped earth pin) and had a
dedicated socket and circuit, non-RCD. This prevents portable
equipment being plugged into the non-RCD outlet.

I could do that but it seems a little OTT, especially as the three
sockets in question are out of reach unless you climb a ladder.

OK, well probably not needed.

It's a toss-up between separating the feed to the three door openers
and running off the non-RCD side of the CU and .....



Probably the last of these is the least expensive approach, especially
if the garage is joined to the house.

It's not, the CU I'm talking about is entirely separate from the house
CU and feeds only garages and garden.

In that case perhaps a separate RCBO to split things apart?

...... doing this which would cost a bit more but requires less
re-wiring.

--
Chris Green

On 2006-10-09 09:57:44 +0100, said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-08 13:46:34 +0100, said:

Andy Hall wrote:

- Several radial circuits with BS1363A outlets are fed from 16A MCBs (RCD side)

That's the way it is at the moment and is what causes the problem.


At one point, I had a freezer in the garage. That was fitted with a
modified BS1363A plug (MK make them with T-shaped earth pin) and had a
dedicated socket and circuit, non-RCD. This prevents portable
equipment being plugged into the non-RCD outlet.

I could do that but it seems a little OTT, especially as the three
sockets in question are out of reach unless you climb a ladder.

OK, well probably not needed.

It's a toss-up between separating the feed to the three door openers
and running off the non-RCD side of the CU and .....



Probably the last of these is the least expensive approach, especially
if the garage is joined to the house.

It's not, the CU I'm talking about is entirely separate from the house
CU and feeds only garages and garden.

In that case perhaps a separate RCBO to split things apart?

..... doing this which would cost a bit more but requires less
re-wiring.

So the old time/cost equation.... :-)