What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old) and,
having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am sanding the
door prior to painting.
The flat bits are, of course, easy but the moulded trim around the panels
is proving to be a bit of a challenge, as I'm trying to reinstate fairly
intricate shapes. The internal mitres are especially difficult.
Is there an obvious trick I'm missing, or is there no substitute for time
and painstaking care?

Appelation Controlee wrote:
What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old) and,
having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am sanding the
door prior to painting.
The flat bits are, of course, easy but the moulded trim around the panels
is proving to be a bit of a challenge, as I'm trying to reinstate fairly
intricate shapes. The internal mitres are especially difficult.
Is there an obvious trick I'm missing, or is there no substitute for time
and painstaking care?

Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!
Internal corners you pick out with sharp small chisels, knife blades
etc. Chisels most easily contolled if you tap with a small mallet like
a sculptor, rather than just working them freehand. Other bits - tools
such as small block or rebate planes on outside edges and along inside
angles if you can get at them. You can use the folded edge of heavy
duty sandpaper to get in to corners to some extent.

cheers
Jacob

"Appelation Controlee" wrote in message
...

What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old) and,
having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am sanding the
door prior to painting.
The flat bits are, of course, easy but the moulded trim around the panels
is proving to be a bit of a challenge, as I'm trying to reinstate fairly
intricate shapes. The internal mitres are especially difficult.
Is there an obvious trick I'm missing, or is there no substitute for time
and painstaking care?

=====================
A set of 'rifflers' will help to get into almost any shape or crevice:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...51762&id=10643

Their intended use is metal fettling so they'll easily cope with body filler.
Use them partly as scrapers and partly as files. A good local tool merchant will
stock them if you want to avoid the Screwfix p & p. Some places sell them
individually so you can choose shapes to suit your particular needs.

Cic.


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normanwisdom wrote:
Appelation Controlee wrote:
What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old)
and, having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am
sanding the door prior to painting.

A Dremmel drill or its counter part,it was made for this type of work.
Although it can be a bit fierce with some bits it takes practice on some
materials.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Appelation Controlee wrote:

What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?

Use a filler that's softer than the timber, not car body filler. The
risk now is that any sanding will tend to remove the wood
preferentially, leaving the filler sticking up as an island. Using
chalk whiting as a filler helps, silica fillers are far too hard.

For big areas and gentle curves, use a contoured foam sander. This is a
lump of hard foam (some packing foams, or thick PU insulation board)
which is shaped to fit the moulding. If it's new moulding, take a scrap
piece of it, put some sawcuts across it and use it as a crude file to
shape your foam. Harden the surface with shellac or superglue if you
have a lot to do, then wrap it carefully in sandpaper. Stick the paper
down with spray glue, if needed.

For tiny curved moudlings, use J-Flex (the blue stuff) which is the
most flexible sandpaper I've found (woodturners love it). Wrap it
around fragments of dowel, waterpipe, plastic grout fingers etc. Watch
out if using it on your finger, as fingers change shape over the length
of a moulding and you get inconsistent results.

For tight corners, then I prefer to scrape it rather than sanding it. I
will usually make a new profiled scraper blade to go in my scratch
stock (a few minutes work to make). After a while you've already got
most of the profiles you need. Rifflers are also useful, especially if
it's gadrooned, not just a straight moulding.

normanwisdom wrote:
Appelation Controlee wrote:
What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old) and,
having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am sanding the
door prior to painting.
The flat bits are, of course, easy but the moulded trim around the panels
is proving to be a bit of a challenge, as I'm trying to reinstate fairly
intricate shapes. The internal mitres are especially difficult.
Is there an obvious trick I'm missing, or is there no substitute for time
and painstaking care?

Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!

Hardly a trick. Putty is not a good filler. Small amounts will dry out
very quickly and, if it's only the paint keeping them in place, you have
ideal conditions for further rot.
Body filler should be roughly shaped with a sharp chisel as it's curing
i.e. within a couple of minutes. Personally I don't use it for fine
detail filling for that reason. Polyfilla works well enough for that,
even on exterior wood.

Internal corners you pick out with sharp small chisels, knife blades
etc. Chisels most easily contolled if you tap with a small mallet like
a sculptor, rather than just working them freehand. Other bits - tools
such as small block or rebate planes on outside edges and along inside
angles if you can get at them. You can use the folded edge of heavy
duty sandpaper to get in to corners to some extent.

cheers
Jacob

On 19 Sep 2006 02:43:35 -0700, wrote:

Appelation Controlee wrote:

What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?

------------8 snipped good stuff

Thanks to everyone for some excellent suggestions. :-)

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:50:22 GMT, Cicero wrote:

"Appelation Controlee" wrote in message
...

What's the best way to sand mouldings after a filler repair?
I'm renovating an exterior panelled door (big & about 100 years old) and,
having filled various bits of damage with car body filler, am sanding the
door prior to painting.
The flat bits are, of course, easy but the moulded trim around the panels
is proving to be a bit of a challenge, as I'm trying to reinstate fairly
intricate shapes. The internal mitres are especially difficult.
Is there an obvious trick I'm missing, or is there no substitute for time
and painstaking care?

=====================
A set of 'rifflers' will help to get into almost any shape or crevice:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...51762&id=10643

Their intended use is metal fettling so they'll easily cope with body filler.
Use them partly as scrapers and partly as files. A good local tool merchant will
stock them if you want to avoid the Screwfix p & p. Some places sell them
individually so you can choose shapes to suit your particular needs.

I found some of these locally and they've have proved excellent.
Thanks!

Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!

Hardly a trick. Putty is not a good filler. Small amounts will dry out
very quickly and, if it's only the paint keeping them in place, you have
ideal conditions for further rot.

Nonsense. Putty has been successfully used as a filler for hundreds of
years and if painted over reasonably soon (within a few weeks) it sets
hard and lasts forever.

cheers
Jacob

normanwisdom wrote:
Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!
Hardly a trick. Putty is not a good filler. Small amounts will dry out
very quickly and, if it's only the paint keeping them in place, you have
ideal conditions for further rot.

Nonsense. Putty has been successfully used as a filler for hundreds of
years and if painted over reasonably soon (within a few weeks) it sets
hard and lasts forever.

The idea of painting it quickly is to stop it setting. Once dry, it's
too inflexible to be of any use as a wood filler.

Stuart Noble wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!
Hardly a trick. Putty is not a good filler. Small amounts will dry out
very quickly and, if it's only the paint keeping them in place, you have
ideal conditions for further rot.

Nonsense. Putty has been successfully used as a filler for hundreds of
years and if painted over reasonably soon (within a few weeks) it sets
hard and lasts forever.

The idea of painting it quickly is to stop it setting. Once dry, it's
too inflexible to be of any use as a wood filler.

Seems to work OK IME, having spent a huge amount of time
servicing/repairing old doors and windows, chipping out 100 year old
putty etc. You must be doing it wrong!
It's not only the perfect filler (for painted wood) but also the
cheapest by far.

cheers
Jacob

"normanwisdom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stuart Noble wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Car body filler too hard to clean up easily, traditional putty much
better as it can be pressed, moulded, rubbed etc whilst still softish,
and is very durable once painted. So that's the first trick you've
missed!
Hardly a trick. Putty is not a good filler. Small amounts will dry out
very quickly and, if it's only the paint keeping them in place, you have
ideal conditions for further rot.

Nonsense. Putty has been successfully used as a filler for hundreds of
years and if painted over reasonably soon (within a few weeks) it sets
hard and lasts forever.

The idea of painting it quickly is to stop it setting. Once dry, it's
too inflexible to be of any use as a wood filler.

Seems to work OK IME, having spent a huge amount of time
servicing/repairing old doors and windows, chipping out 100 year old
putty etc. You must be doing it wrong!
It's not only the perfect filler (for painted wood) but also the
cheapest by far.

cheers
Jacob

=========================
I've used putty on occasions in the past as a filler but the main drawback is
that it takes so long to harden. This doesn't matter in most situations but
where it's likely to be knocked or touched modern 'Polyfilla' or similar is far
better from a convenience point of view.

Cic.

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normanwisdom wrote:

Nonsense. Putty has been successfully used as a filler for hundreds of
years

Putty (linseed oil and chalk whiting) has certainly been used for
hundreds of years. However:

- This isn't the same putty. A lead-dried linseed oil will cure more
happily than a modern cobalt-dried oil, particularly where moisture is
high and oxygen availability is low (such as thick putty, or painted
putty)

- It was never regarded as a high quality filler. Quality work,
whether in picture framing or cabinetry used "compo" instead, which
contains rabbit skin glue as well.

- It's not much good. It never was much good, but those were the days
when we thought cholera was a good idea because we didn't have much
choice about things. Nowadays we have a lot more options. In
particular, it shrinks.

If you want references try these:

Historical use of fillers in trim carpentry:
James Ayres' "Domestic Interiors"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...455/codesmiths

High quality fillers and compo:
Paul Curson's "Framing & Gilding"
http://www.skillspublish.com.au/BK07-12.htm

Bill Knight's monograph on linseed oil finishes for gunstocking is also
the canonical ref on old linseed oil drying processes.


if painted over reasonably soon (within a few weeks) it sets hard and lasts forever.

Painting it over will _slow_ the curing (which is slow anyway).