Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this
mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?

How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.

My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

Thanks
Pete

PM wrote:
Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this
mean that the joint was good?

Almost certainly.

I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?

If it worries you. Solder blobs outside simply mean you have put too
much solder on. The joint should still be good.


How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

When there is a bright ring visible all the way round the end of the
outer part of the joint.

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.

Thats fine. do reflux, and juts re-heat and add a little more.


My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?


Should be fine. I find a less than full blast heat for longer is good.
The little tirchs are pretty uselksss - use a big one.

Thanks
Pete

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
PM wrote:
Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling
up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the
process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does
this
mean that the joint was good?

Almost certainly.

I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean
and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?

If it worries you. Solder blobs outside simply mean you have put too
much solder on. The joint should still be good.


How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

When there is a bright ring visible all the way round the end of the
outer part of the joint.

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I
guess I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.

Thats fine. do reflux, and juts re-heat and add a little more.


My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at
getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?


Should be fine. I find a less than full blast heat for longer is good.
The little tirchs are pretty uselksss - use a big one.

Thanks for the answers NP. How big is a 'big' torch - I don't want to have
to lug round gas cylinders! Mine is a simple screw-on valve+burner onto the
top of the canister.

PM wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
PM wrote:
Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling
up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the
process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does
this
mean that the joint was good?
Almost certainly.

I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean
and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?
If it worries you. Solder blobs outside simply mean you have put too
much solder on. The joint should still be good.

How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

When there is a bright ring visible all the way round the end of the
outer part of the joint.

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I
guess I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.
Thats fine. do reflux, and juts re-heat and add a little more.

My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at
getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

Should be fine. I find a less than full blast heat for longer is good.
The little tirchs are pretty uselksss - use a big one.

Thanks for the answers NP. How big is a 'big' torch - I don't want to have
to lug round gas cylinders! Mine is a simple screw-on valve+burner onto the
top of the canister.


Yup, but there are ones that talke a 5" cylinder and ones that take a
10" cylinder. Get the bigger one.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
Yup, but there are ones that talke a 5" cylinder and ones that take a
10" cylinder. Get the bigger one.

Size of the gas canister makes no difference.
I installed my heating with whatever blowlamp was cheapest in Wickes,
and it handled everything up to 28mm Tee's without any problem.

I can't claim I noticed much difference in handling between leaded
solder which I used on the heating and gas pipework, and unleaded
which I used on the water supply pipework.

As others have said, getting the pipe ends and insides of the
fittings bright shiney copper and fluxed is really important.
If I did think I'd messed up a joint, I never reused the fitting,
although that was well before price of copper went sky high.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
As others have said, getting the pipe ends and insides of the
fittings bright shiney copper and fluxed is really important.

I know it's good advice - and I do it too, but for an experiment I got the
grottiest bit of old tube I could find in the depths of my cellar and
worst end feed fitting - both dirty and green - and soldered them using
Everflux. Took them apart and they were perfectly tinned. So aggressive
flux is pretty aggressive. Of course it might baulk at grease, etc. With a
non aggressive flux cleanliness is next to godliness, though.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
PM wrote:
Thanks for the answers NP. How big is a 'big' torch - I don't want to
have to lug round gas cylinders! Mine is a simple screw-on valve+burner
onto the top of the canister.

Pretty well all DIY ones are suitable - the reason for a separate cylinder
type that plumbers use is running costs.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:39:12 +0100, "PM"
wrote:

|Hi all,
|
|After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up
|outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!)
|and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this
|mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
|bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and
|flux another few mm to stop this happening?
|
|How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?
|
|I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
|taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
|removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess I
|still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
|re-use the old fitting.
|
|My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting
|the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

I had to cut out a section and replace with compression fittings. I blamed
lead free solder, which IMO is cr*p. As I was doing heating, lead free
is not necessary.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:39:12 +0100, "PM"
wrote:

|Hi all,
|
|After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling
up
|outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!)
|and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does
this
|mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a
dirty
|bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and
|flux another few mm to stop this happening?
|
|How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?
|
|I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
|taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
|removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess
I
|still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
|re-use the old fitting.
|
|My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting
|the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

I had to cut out a section and replace with compression fittings. I
blamed
lead free solder, which IMO is cr*p. As I was doing heating, lead free
is not necessary.


You can still get leaded solder. I'm doing heating as well but my solder is
also lead-free just because it is more universal.

If any of my joints leak I'm going to blame the solder as well :-)

"PM" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this
mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?

How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess
I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.

My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

Thanks
Pete


Always clean the inside of the endfeed fitting with wire wool as well as the
outside of the copper pipe. I didn't clean the inside of the endfeed
fittings at first when doing my CH and had a couple of failures. Also, that
flux that comes in the beige round flat can, "Tempflux" or whatever ( "The
Mild Flux" ) really is mild and there are much more effective fluxes out
there ( "EverFlux" for instance ), though some may frown on the corrosive
nature of aggressive fluxes, especially if used on gas runs or not wiped off
the outside of joints.

Andy.

"Andy" wrote in message
...

"PM" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling
up
outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the
process!)
and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does
this
mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a
dirty
bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean
and
flux another few mm to stop this happening?

How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been
taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and
removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I
guess
I
still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to
re-use the old fitting.

My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at
getting
the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

Thanks
Pete


Always clean the inside of the endfeed fitting with wire wool as well as
the
outside of the copper pipe. I didn't clean the inside of the endfeed
fittings at first when doing my CH and had a couple of failures.


I use a tool with 15mm/22mm wire brush for that, works very well and doesn't
moult into the fitting.

Also, that
flux that comes in the beige round flat can, "Tempflux" or whatever ( "The
Mild Flux" ) really is mild and there are much more effective fluxes out
there ( "EverFlux" for instance ), though some may frown on the corrosive
nature of aggressive fluxes, especially if used on gas runs or not wiped
off
the outside of joints.

The flux I've got is called powerflow, don't know how acidic it is but it
brightens the outside of the tube if left on there cold. The solder is the
same brand. I will be doing gas pipe in a bit, I'm going to use solder ring
connectors for that which I seem to have more success with :-)