I noticed while staying at the Radisson SAS at Stansted airport
recently that even though the whole of one wall is made of glass that
you cannot hear *anything* from outside. No aircraft despite being
only a few hundred metres from the runway, no traffic and no
roadworks.

The glass is a little dark, but seems to be totally soundproof. I
wouldn't mind glass like this on our bedroom window since I am a light
sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes on the road
200m away wake me up.

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

The message
from Mark contains these words:

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Triple glazed, I would think.

Of course a vacuum between the panes would be ideal, but they'd bow
inwards and touch or break or both.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:07:36 +0100, Mark wrote:

... but seems to be totally soundproof.

Seems might be fairly relevant, I doubt that the area you where in was
particulary quiet. Aircon, people, that will mask noises that would be
very obvious in a really quiet room.

I am a light sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes
on the road 200m away wake me up.

Motorbikes can be fing loud, particulary the high reving "sport" bikes.
Outside we can hear them screaming along a road 4+ miles away down the
valley.

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done?

Sound proofing relies on a few things, mass (lots of it), total sealing
and layers. Ordinary domestic double glazing does a pretty good job if
you want to improve on that fit another sealed frame/units double glazed
window 18" or so back from the first. The large space provides a bit of
cushioning between the panes of glass, two little and the air in the
space doesn't compress and absorb the sound, it just transfers it to the
next pane.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message , Guy King
writes
The message
from Mark contains these words:

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Triple glazed, I would think.

Of course a vacuum between the panes would be ideal, but they'd bow
inwards and touch or break or both.

I don't know the answer but ISTR that the optimum distance between panes
is much greater for soundproofing than for heat insulation as you have
to consider the likelihood of convection increasing heat loss.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:23:44 +0100, Guy King wrote:

|The message
|from Mark contains these words:
|
| How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
| be extremely expensive?
|
|Triple glazed, I would think.

Perhaps quad glazed?

Glass itself transmits sound quite well. A wide gap between panes and a
greater number of gaps gives better soundproofing.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

In article , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , Guy King
writes
The message
from Mark contains these words:

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Triple glazed, I would think.

Of course a vacuum between the panes would be ideal, but they'd bow
inwards and touch or break or both.

I don't know the answer but ISTR that the optimum distance between panes
is much greater for soundproofing than for heat insulation as you have
to consider the likelihood of convection increasing heat loss.

regards



The distance does matter, in radio studios for example we sometimes use
panes that are around Six to Eight inches apart as well as being angled
or sloped relative to each other, but this is to improve the reflections
within the studios.

Around 4 to 6 mm thickness glass is used......
--
Tony Sayer

I wouldn't mind glass like this on our bedroom window since I am a light
sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes on the road
200m away wake me up.

Remember it's all structural elements, not just windows, that need to
be designed to supress sound.

Yes, I've also heard large gaps in DG required for soundproofing, but
smaller gaps for improved thermal insulation. Obviously well fitted DG
is better than single glazed sashes - but beyond that the payback may
be small.

You might be better with thick curtains, thick carpets etc. to dampen
sound within the room.

The message
from tony sayer contains these words:

The distance does matter, in radio studios for example we sometimes use
panes that are around Six to Eight inches apart as well as being angled
or sloped relative to each other, but this is to improve the reflections
within the studios.

I should expect having the glass sloped relative to each other would
make a difference to sound transmission as well.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
The message
from Mark contains these words:

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Triple glazed, I would think.

From experience. We once lived on a main road and once in realised that
the traffic noise was just too much for us. We double glazed everywhere
at the front and that was fine at night (road was quiet) but during the
day was still noisy. Luckily we had very deep walls so there was a lot
of space and we put a third window behind the double glazed window
downstairs in our main room about 5 inches behind the double glazed
unit. After this the only sounds that came through were the lorries
thundering past during the day but as the house shook when they came
though I don't know what would have helped remove that noise. In the end
we solved the problem entirely by moving house to a cul-de-sac. I miss
the old house but I don't miss the noise.

--
John Kelly

remove dimspam if replying by email

"Mark" wrote in message
...
I noticed while staying at the Radisson SAS at Stansted airport
recently that even though the whole of one wall is made of glass that
you cannot hear *anything* from outside. No aircraft despite being
only a few hundred metres from the runway, no traffic and no
roadworks.

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

From memory, and assuming no gaps or other short-cuts for the sound waves,
sound transmission across a boundary is simply related to ratio of densities
of the air/glass and glass/air interfaces. So the more interfaces the
better, and triple glazing will lower the sound level significantly. It's
rare for there to be no sound leaking gaps in normal buildings, and the
surrounding structure has to be correctly made. (Probably more difficult to
get a decent audio quiet room than one for RF electrical tests, and they're
not easy when 100dB of attenuation is required!).

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mark wrote:
I noticed while staying at the Radisson SAS at Stansted airport
recently that even though the whole of one wall is made of glass that
you cannot hear *anything* from outside. No aircraft despite being
only a few hundred metres from the runway, no traffic and no
roadworks.

The glass is a little dark, but seems to be totally soundproof. I
wouldn't mind glass like this on our bedroom window since I am a light
sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes on the road
200m away wake me up.

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Sound dampening glass is usually triple glazed, with each layer of
glass a different thickness to the others to more effectively damp
transmission of vibrations - each pane has different resonant
frequencies.

Phil.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:07:36 +0100, Mark wrote:


I am a light sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes
on the road 200m away wake me up.

Motorbikes can be fing loud, particulary the high reving "sport" bikes.
Outside we can hear them screaming along a road 4+ miles away down the
valley.

...or the low burbling ones that neighbours leave running at 5am in the
morning to warm up while they have their breakfast.



How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done?

Sound proofing relies on a few things, mass (lots of it), total sealing
and layers. Ordinary domestic double glazing does a pretty good job if
you want to improve on that fit another sealed frame/units double glazed
window 18" or so back from the first. The large space provides a bit of
cushioning between the panes of glass, two little and the air in the
space doesn't compress and absorb the sound, it just transfers it to the
next pane.


I have double glazing but much of the sounf transmission comes around
the frames through the gaps. A friend had secondary glazing in his
flat in addition to double glazing and it was amazing - shut the
secondary glazing and you couldn't hear a thing from outside.

wrote:
I have double glazing but much of the sounf transmission comes around
the frames through the gaps. A friend had secondary glazing in his
flat in addition to double glazing and it was amazing - shut the
secondary glazing and you couldn't hear a thing from outside.

Adjusting them can help a lot with this, but trickle vents can let in
quite a bit of noise even when shut.

Even heavy lined full-length curtains can make a big difference - the
closer they hang against the wall the better.

Chris


--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

Phil wrote:
Sound dampening glass is usually triple glazed, with each layer of
glass a different thickness to the others to more effectively damp
transmission of vibrations - each pane has different resonant
frequencies.

Isn't the middle pane normally angled as well? Or is that just in
recording/radio studios?

Chris

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

In article ,
Chris Hodges wrote:
Sound dampening glass is usually triple glazed, with each layer of
glass a different thickness to the others to more effectively damp
transmission of vibrations - each pane has different resonant
frequencies.

Isn't the middle pane normally angled as well? Or is that just in
recording/radio studios?

You can get adequate insulation for most recording studio purposes - say
studio to control room - with just two layers of thick glass well spaced -
say about 12-18 inches. It's unlikely you'd want a window between two
different studios. The above insulation allows an orchestra at full belt
barely to be heard in a quiet control room. So an attenuation of probably
better than 70 dB.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 7 Sep 2006 05:25:20 -0700, wrote:

...or the low burbling ones that neighbours...

Neighbours? Oh you mean the people living 1/2 a mile away. Can't hear
them, doubt I'd hear them if they disconected the exhuast on the tractor.
B-)

... leave running at 5am ...

Just hop on and move it a further away. B-)

I have double glazing but much of the sounf transmission comes around
the frames through the gaps.

There shouldn't be any gaps, either in the seals or around the frames.

A friend had secondary glazing in his flat in addition to double
glazing and it was amazing - shut the secondary glazing and you
couldn't hear a thing from outside.

Properly installed double glazing should do that without the abomination
of secondary glazing.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article . com,
Phil writes

Mark wrote:
I noticed while staying at the Radisson SAS at Stansted airport
recently that even though the whole of one wall is made of glass that
you cannot hear *anything* from outside. No aircraft despite being
only a few hundred metres from the runway, no traffic and no
roadworks.

The glass is a little dark, but seems to be totally soundproof. I
wouldn't mind glass like this on our bedroom window since I am a light
sleeper and just about anything from birds to motorbikes on the road
200m away wake me up.

How soundproof can you make glass and how is it done? I guess it would
be extremely expensive?

Sound dampening glass is usually triple glazed, with each layer of
glass a different thickness to the others to more effectively damp
transmission of vibrations - each pane has different resonant
frequencies.

One of the Pilks sites gives a bit of an insight:

http://www.pilkington.com/Asia+and+A...and/English/Bu
ilding+Products/Householder/SmartGlass+Solutions/Reduced+Noise/Redu
ced+Noise+Facts+and+Figures.htm

or

http://snipurl.com/w3ra

Thick glass better, then DG, then DG with differing glass types
(laminated), better again with increased gap between panes.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
A friend had secondary glazing in his flat in addition to double
glazing and it was amazing - shut the secondary glazing and you
couldn't hear a thing from outside.

Properly installed double glazing should do that without the abomination
of secondary glazing.

Not for best noise insulation. Single glazing with secondary spaced to the
thickness of the wall is very much better. It's also easy to get thick
glass secondary glazing. I agree it's a pain, though, unless the sound
insulation is important.

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 19:22:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

... shut the secondary glazing and you couldn't hear a thing from
outside.

Properly installed double glazing should do that without the
abomination of secondary glazing.

Not for best noise insulation. Single glazing with secondary spaced to
the thickness of the wall is very much better.

I have my doubts, it must be a pretty close call single or secondary
glazing 25dB attenuation each. Double glazing 50dB... (Guesstimated
figures from experience).

Certianly our new double glazing does a fine job of keeping the sound of
Tornadoes at 200' out. Most sound now appears to come through the roof
and ceilings or the older windows, (4mm gap sealed unit glassware but in
normal timber frames).


I agree it's a pain, though, unless the sound insulation is important.

I'd go for good quality well gapped (as per the regs now 20mm+?) double
glazing first and see how that fairs before using single with secondary.
If the DG doesn't perform well enough on it's own you can still add the
secondary relatively painlessly.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail