Hi,

I am a complete newbie to full on decorating. Previously I've been lucky
that all I've needed to do is a bit of painting here and there.

I've recently moved into a new property that needs a LOT of work doing.

With the bedroom I'm working on at the moment, when we pulled the wallpaper
from the walls (yes, it WAS that easy) it also caused the ceiling covering
to come away at the edges. We wanted to re-do the ceiling anyway, so pulled
all the ceiling covering off. That too came off real easy.

I then filled a couple of cracks, rubbed down any loose areas and cleaned
the surface of loose dust.

When I then attempted to apply the new ceiling paint (a polycell product)
with a foam roller, it appeared not to be sticking to the surface. It was
being pulled off by the roller. I tried with a medium pile fibre roller and
the same happened. Using a paint brush initially seemed OK. So I started to
paint a larger area, with the intention of covering properly once dried.
However, that too ended up causing the same problem.

Upon closer look, where the paint was coming off, it was not JUST the new
paint coming off. There was a layer of something else (green - grey in
colour) on the underside. So it would appear that whatever this layer is,
the new paint is causing it to come away. This also leaves a yellow-ish
surface underneath (which presumably WOULD keep the new paint).

Investigating further, scrubbing the surface "sort of" removed the offending
surface covering. It comes of quite a nasty, sludgy, grey-green mess. Also,
applying a brief spell of steam & then scraping seems to remove it, but not
without making a huge dusty mess.

Could someone please tell me what this stuff might be & why the paint not
only won't key to it, but infact pulls off the initial surface?

What would be the best way of dealing with this with minimum fuss (and
prefereably mess)?


Sorry if this is complete basics, but I AM a complete novice. :/

Thanks,
Simon

SilentBob wrote:
Hi,

I am a complete newbie to full on decorating. Previously I've been
lucky that all I've needed to do is a bit of painting here and there.

I've recently moved into a new property that needs a LOT of work
doing.

With the bedroom I'm working on at the moment, when we pulled the
wallpaper from the walls (yes, it WAS that easy) it also caused the
ceiling covering to come away at the edges. We wanted to re-do the
ceiling anyway, so pulled all the ceiling covering off. That too came
off real easy.

I then filled a couple of cracks, rubbed down any loose areas and
cleaned the surface of loose dust.

When I then attempted to apply the new ceiling paint (a polycell
product) with a foam roller, it appeared not to be sticking to the
surface. It was being pulled off by the roller. I tried with a medium
pile fibre roller and the same happened. Using a paint brush
initially seemed OK. So I started to paint a larger area, with the
intention of covering properly once dried. However, that too ended up
causing the same problem.

Upon closer look, where the paint was coming off, it was not JUST the
new paint coming off. There was a layer of something else (green -
grey in colour) on the underside. So it would appear that whatever
this layer is, the new paint is causing it to come away. This also
leaves a yellow-ish surface underneath (which presumably WOULD keep
the new paint).

Investigating further, scrubbing the surface "sort of" removed the
offending surface covering. It comes of quite a nasty, sludgy,
grey-green mess. Also, applying a brief spell of steam & then
scraping seems to remove it, but not without making a huge dusty mess.

Could someone please tell me what this stuff might be & why the paint
not only won't key to it, but infact pulls off the initial surface?

What would be the best way of dealing with this with minimum fuss (and
prefereably mess)?


Sorry if this is complete basics, but I AM a complete novice. :/

Thanks,
Simon

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.

I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes
through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.

I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes
through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.

--
Putting up any paper on a ceiling is a right pain in the ass,
especially on this stuff.
I would scrape any loose and visible stuff first then sand it with a
rough paper and then give it a rub of light sand paper and then put
white emulsion on slowly and carefully with a brush.
Forget the roller for this job.
A second coat may be needed and do it lightly again with the brush.

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.

I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes
through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.

--
Putting up any paper on a ceiling is a right pain in the ass,
especially on this stuff.
I would scrape any loose and visible stuff first then sand it with a
rough paper and then give it a rub of light sand paper and then put
white emulsion on slowly and carefully with a brush.
Forget the roller for this job.
A second coat may be needed and do it lightly again with the brush.

I forgot to add that it may flake for a bit when painting it but when
it dries out it will be ok.

wrote:
wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.

I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes
through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.

--
Putting up any paper on a ceiling is a right pain in the ass,
especially on this stuff.
I would scrape any loose and visible stuff first then sand it with a
rough paper and then give it a rub of light sand paper and then put
white emulsion on slowly and carefully with a brush.
Forget the roller for this job.
A second coat may be needed and do it lightly again with the brush.

I forgot to add that it may flake for a bit when painting it but when
it dries out it will be ok.

By the sound of what you're saying the ceiling going to look like the moon?

Line it I say.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

How old is the house?

I think it is late 40s. But decor looks like 70s.

Distemper?

That has been suggested.

Plasterboard and lots of it.

Owain

In message , The3rd
Earl Of Derby writes
wrote:
wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.

I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes
through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.

--
Putting up any paper on a ceiling is a right pain in the ass,
especially on this stuff.
I would scrape any loose and visible stuff first then sand it with a
rough paper and then give it a rub of light sand paper and then put
white emulsion on slowly and carefully with a brush.
Forget the roller for this job.
A second coat may be needed and do it lightly again with the brush.

I forgot to add that it may flake for a bit when painting it but when
it dries out it will be ok.

By the sound of what you're saying the ceiling going to look like the moon?

Line it I say.

Yeah, I'd either go for lining paper - no it's not the easiest job, but
neither, as long as there are two of you is it that dreadful. Scraping
and washing off the distemper isn't going to be a nice job either - in
theory distemper can be washed off by it's not pleasant and if over
painted difficult. I'm with the Earl here - if it's flaking when you
paint it isn't going to be good finish.

However if the condition of the ceiling is otherwise poor - too many
cracks etc. uneven plaster etc. then I'd probably go the overboarding
with plasterboard route unless you have attractive cornice you'd want to
keep. A bit awkward by not terribly difficult if there are two to DIY
it. A plasterer would be able to board it out and skim in day though.
We did this in a lot of the rooms in the old house (built 1938) and it
was money well spent for nice smooth ceilings that just need painting
--
Chris French

chris French wrote:


However if the condition of the ceiling is otherwise poor - too many
cracks etc. uneven plaster etc. then I'd probably go the overboarding
with plasterboard route unless you have attractive cornice you'd want to
keep. A bit awkward by not terribly difficult if there are two to DIY
it. A plasterer would be able to board it out and skim in day though.
We did this in a lot of the rooms in the old house (built 1938) and it
was money well spent for nice smooth ceilings that just need painting
--
Chris French

my suggestion would take a few hours only and might work out fine. the
alternative suggestions are both difficult jobs and lining paper can
still be seen at the joints. Plasterboard over a ceiling sounds crazy
to me unless you remove the whole ceiling.

wrote:
chris French wrote:

However if the condition of the ceiling is otherwise poor - too many
cracks etc. uneven plaster etc. then I'd probably go the overboarding
with plasterboard route unless you have attractive cornice you'd want to
keep. A bit awkward by not terribly difficult if there are two to DIY
it. A plasterer would be able to board it out and skim in day though.
We did this in a lot of the rooms in the old house (built 1938) and it
was money well spent for nice smooth ceilings that just need painting
--
Chris French

my suggestion would take a few hours only and might work out fine. the
alternative suggestions are both difficult jobs and lining paper can
still be seen at the joints. Plasterboard over a ceiling sounds crazy
to me unless you remove the whole ceiling.


You could try sizing the ceiling with ordinary wallpaper paste. IME this
stabilises powdery surfaces better than paint or pva, and I apply it
routinely to anything that has been filled and/or rubbed down. Dust from
plaster or filler seems to stay on ceilings long after you think you've
swept it all off, and is absorbent enough to ruin the first coat of paint.

You say you removed the ceiling covering. If it was vynil then it would have had a backing paper. Did you remove that as well?

"pebe" wrote in message
news
You say you removed the ceiling covering. If it was vynil then it would
have had a backing paper. Did you remove that as well?

It wasn't a vinyl covering. It was a textured paint covering, but it came
off very easily in large pieces. It left behind a mainly smooth off white
painted finish.When I applied paint it came off bringing withit a layer of
what is suggested to be distemper. This sounds about right, as it is powdery
but sludgy when wet. It is a green-grey colour. Where this comes off it
looks to leave a smooth (dirty) yellow surface below.

I'm thinking that I could go with the sealing option. Would Emulsa-Bond be
the correct thing to use (mixed with a normal emulsion)? And then, when dry,
paint over in the ceiling paint?

SilentBob wrote:
"pebe" wrote in message
news
You say you removed the ceiling covering. If it was vynil then it
would have had a backing paper. Did you remove that as well?

It wasn't a vinyl covering. It was a textured paint covering, but it
came off very easily in large pieces. It left behind a mainly smooth
off white painted finish.When I applied paint it came off bringing
withit a layer of what is suggested to be distemper. This sounds
about right, as it is powdery but sludgy when wet. It is a green-grey
colour. Where this comes off it looks to leave a smooth (dirty)
yellow surface below.

I'm thinking that I could go with the sealing option. Would
Emulsa-Bond be the correct thing to use (mixed with a normal
emulsion)? And then, when dry, paint over in the ceiling paint?

The quickest way is to have it skimmed. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

SilentBob wrote:
"pebe" wrote in message
news
You say you removed the ceiling covering. If it was vynil then it would
have had a backing paper. Did you remove that as well?

It wasn't a vinyl covering. It was a textured paint covering, but it came
off very easily in large pieces. It left behind a mainly smooth off white
painted finish.When I applied paint it came off bringing withit a layer of
what is suggested to be distemper. This sounds about right, as it is powdery
but sludgy when wet. It is a green-grey colour. Where this comes off it
looks to leave a smooth (dirty) yellow surface below.

I'm thinking that I could go with the sealing option. Would Emulsa-Bond be
the correct thing to use (mixed with a normal emulsion)? And then, when dry,
paint over in the ceiling paint?


Oh..juts slap some thinned PVA on it, or a lining paper. Your choice.

Hi,

Thanks for the input. Other than the area that I tried painting, the surface
is quite good. Hence, if I first smooth that area back down I may go for the
sealing option.

A coat or two of stabilising fluid was suggested. The staff at B&Q juust
gave me blank looks when I asked there. (even worse when I mentioned
"distemper") However, I have found the following on Wickes website:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/606005

It says it's for exterior use, but would this be suitable?

I would then be painting over it with the following:

http://www.focusdiy.co.uk/invt/715669

Does this sound like a reasonable course of action?

Thanks for your help.

SilentBob wrote:


Does this sound like a reasonable course of action?

Thanks for your help.


3 people have given you the best option,you've ignored these options.

I told that I've tried most types of bonding,they didn't work,so it was a
case of lining the ceiling. end of

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
k...

3 people have given you the best option,you've ignored these options.

I told that I've tried most types of bonding,they didn't work,so it was a
case of lining the ceiling. end of

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


I did mention in my very 1st post that I'm very new to all this. Never had
to do much more than slap on a bit of paint.

I've never hung paper on a wall, let alone on a ceiling. I really can't see
it going all that well. Certainly would end up looking a bit iffy.

As for the plasterboard option...! Seriously not sure that I'm up to that
either.

I HAVE taken onboard everyone's comments in order to find the most suitable
option for me and my situation.

I thank everyone for the input so far, and have chosen a route.

I have been polite throughout.

So why this rather rude & patronising reply?

Thank you.

SilentBob wrote:


So why this rather rude & patronising reply?

Thank you.

Its not a rude reply you cannot get rid of distemper it'll come back again
even through bonding.
Bonding over it proves zilch ie a waste of time even when and you will
still have to scrape as much off before bonding.

http://www.plasterlord.com/notebook/fcalcimine.htm

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Its not a rude reply you cannot get rid of distemper


but you would advise him to skim over distemper. It would be impossible
to skim over that crap. the skim would fall off it in chunks, thats if
you managed to get it up there in the first place.

never mind him Bob, some people never admit when they are wrong. His
advice is a bit like his name.


you must weigh up the advices and decide on the best and or the easiest
depending on your budget and your own ability.

SilentBob wrote:
Hi,

I am a complete newbie to full on decorating. Previously I've been
lucky that all I've needed to do is a bit of painting here and there.

I've recently moved into a new property that needs a LOT of work
doing.
With the bedroom I'm working on at the moment, when we pulled the
wallpaper from the walls (yes, it WAS that easy) it also caused the
ceiling covering to come away at the edges. We wanted to re-do the
ceiling anyway, so pulled all the ceiling covering off. That too came
off real easy.
I then filled a couple of cracks, rubbed down any loose areas and
cleaned the surface of loose dust.

When I then attempted to apply the new ceiling paint (a polycell
product) with a foam roller, it appeared not to be sticking to the
surface. It was being pulled off by the roller. I tried with a medium
pile fibre roller and the same happened. Using a paint brush
initially seemed OK. So I started to paint a larger area, with the
intention of covering properly once dried. However, that too ended up
causing the same problem.
Upon closer look, where the paint was coming off, it was not JUST the
new paint coming off. There was a layer of something else (green -
grey in colour) on the underside. So it would appear that whatever
this layer is, the new paint is causing it to come away. This also
leaves a yellow-ish surface underneath (which presumably WOULD keep
the new paint).
Investigating further, scrubbing the surface "sort of" removed the
offending surface covering. It comes of quite a nasty, sludgy,
grey-green mess. Also, applying a brief spell of steam & then
scraping seems to remove it, but not without making a huge dusty mess.

Could someone please tell me what this stuff might be & why the paint
not only won't key to it, but infact pulls off the initial surface?

What would be the best way of dealing with this with minimum fuss (and
prefereably mess)?


Sorry if this is complete basics, but I AM a complete novice. :/

Thanks,
Simon

It sounds like distemper and /or limewash, both are a pain in the
arse....you can buy a stabliser which will 'set' like a glaze and then you
can paint it but it will look rough, failing that it will need papering,
either lining paper or a relief paper that's going to stay up for a long
time...another option is to board and skim, this isn't a task for a newbie
though, a plasterer will charge you around 1-2 hundred depending on where
you live and the size of it.

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Its not a rude reply you cannot get rid of distemper


but you would advise him to skim over distemper. It would be
impossible to skim over that crap. the skim would fall off it in
chunks, thats if you managed to get it up there in the first place.


Yep,but it goes like this...

You score(gouge)all over the ceiling which cuts back to the plaster and
then skim.

Two pieces of wood made to look like a *T* shape,6" nails hammered through
the *T* piece so the point protudes about 1" or so.

never mind him Bob, some people never admit when they are wrong. His
advice is a bit like his name.


I've seen it done by a plasterer. :-P

you must weigh up the advices and decide on the best and or the
easiest depending on your budget and your own ability.

And be prepared to see it come back in the form of brown stains in as
little as 12 months or more?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

In message .com,
writes

chris French wrote:


However if the condition of the ceiling is otherwise poor - too many
cracks etc. uneven plaster etc. then I'd probably go the overboarding
with plasterboard route unless you have attractive cornice you'd want to
keep. A bit awkward by not terribly difficult if there are two to DIY
it. A plasterer would be able to board it out and skim in day though.
We did this in a lot of the rooms in the old house (built 1938) and it
was money well spent for nice smooth ceilings that just need painting
--
Chris French

my suggestion would take a few hours only and might work out fine.

It might, but I suspect the finish will be on the por side, but i can't
see the ceiling, nor know what finish standards the OP expects.
Personally if I'm decorating a room I'm going to live with for anytime I
like a good finish.

the
alternative suggestions are both difficult jobs and lining paper can
still be seen at the joints. Plasterboard over a ceiling sounds crazy
to me unless you remove the whole ceiling.

Not at all, it works well (I was suspicious the first time I tried it)
Whack the board up, just use longer screws/nails to hold it in place.
Saves a lot of mess and effort pulling down the ceiling. A bodge? Yeah
probably a bit of one, but compared to taking down the ceiling in a
lived in house it's worth it.
--
Chris French

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 01:45:24 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message .com,
writes

the
alternative suggestions are both difficult jobs and lining paper can
still be seen at the joints. Plasterboard over a ceiling sounds crazy
to me unless you remove the whole ceiling.

Not at all, it works well (I was suspicious the first time I tried it)
Whack the board up, just use longer screws/nails to hold it in place.
Saves a lot of mess and effort pulling down the ceiling. A bodge? Yeah
probably a bit of one, but compared to taking down the ceiling in a
lived in house it's worth it.

Its not a bodge, double boarding ceilings is normal. Improves sound
insulation and fire proofing to boot.

SilentBob wrote:
I've never hung paper on a wall, let alone on a ceiling. I really
can't see
it going all that well. Certainly would end up looking a bit iffy.

As for the plasterboard option...! Seriously not sure that I'm up to that
either.

I HAVE taken onboard everyone's comments in order to find the most suitable
option for me and my situation.

The moral of the story seems to be,
"never pull lining paper from a ceiling unless you intend to put up a
complete new ceiling ."