Edward W. Thompson wrote:

I must be missing something here, why can't you use the back door if
the front is unopenable for whatever reason. There should be, and in
modern properties there must be, an alternative exit method. There
should not be a safety issue if the front or any other door is not
accessible.

Most houses are like a sieve when it comes to fire escapes, having lots
of exitable doors and windows, but this only works if the occupant has
enough awareness to know to use them, some dont.

NT

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:01:55 +0100, Guy King wrote:

When I stayed in the Regent Palace Hotel[1] ...

Is that the one just off Piccadilly Circus where you get a key for the
bathroom and return it when finished so that it can be cleaned?

[1] Doesn't everyone stay there *once*?

Not having been behind the scenes to do some work there, no.

That would apply to almost any large hotel, I've been round the back of
the Ritz, yuech...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message , Guy King
writes
The message
from Owain contains these words:

When I stayed in the Regent Palace Hotel[1] and on the 7th floor I
thought it would be a good idea to check the fire exit.


[1] Doesn't everyone stay there *once*?

Not having been behind the scenes to do some work there, no.
I must agree, I did a bit of work there a couple of years back, luckily
only for a day.

The blood art in the toilets was amazing, I reckon that they must have
used two or three different dia' needles on the syringes to produce the
effect.


--
Bill

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

Not having been behind the scenes to do some work there, no.

That would apply to almost any large hotel, I've been round the back of
the Ritz, yuech...

Ah, yes, done the Ritz, too. Royal Garden Hotel wasn't too bad, but the
very worst wasn't a hotel but Taco Bell in Leicester Square. What I
thought were nice curved tiles between the floor and the wall to
facilitate cleaning turned out to be a nice fillet of dirt.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:46:04 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 07:21:24 on
Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Edward W. Thompson
remarked:
Sod the insurance company. I don't care if burglars nick the DVD. I do care
if I find the remains of my charred family by the locked front door.

I must be missing something here, why can't you use the back door if
the front is unopenable for whatever reason.

Yes, what you are missing is that the insurance company wants all
external doors to be locked, and no keys accessible (let alone on the
lock).

I thought the initial post referred to a person leaving a house and
locking a door leaving the person inside with no means to get out. I
wasn't aware that insurance companies required all external doors to
be locked when the house is occupied. Is that what most people do.

With respect to flats/apartments, doesn't the requirement for an
alternative means of escape apply to them as it does to a house? I
suspect it does otherwise the 'Regs' would be nonsense.

In message , at 07:35:52 on
Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Edward W. Thompson
remarked:

Sod the insurance company. I don't care if burglars nick the DVD. I do care
if I find the remains of my charred family by the locked front door.

I must be missing something here, why can't you use the back door if
the front is unopenable for whatever reason.

Yes, what you are missing is that the insurance company wants all
external doors to be locked, and no keys accessible (let alone on the
lock).

I thought the initial post referred to a person leaving a house and
locking a door leaving the person inside with no means to get out.

If the person going out thought the house was unoccupied, then it
wouldn't matter if the insurance company had an "unoccupied only" rule.

I wasn't aware that insurance companies required all external doors to
be locked when the house is occupied.

It varies. I know that the policy I bought in about 1989 specified a
whole set of extra conditions I'd not seen before. Including locks on
all windows that could be accessed from the outside (including by
standing on any handy nearby walls etc) and locking the external doors
at night [not sure about daytime].

Others I've seen do indeed only specify that the precautions are
required when the house is "unattended".

Is that what most people do.

No doubt people ignore all sorts of rules imposed by their insurance
company.

With respect to flats/apartments, doesn't the requirement for an
alternative means of escape apply to them as it does to a house? I
suspect it does otherwise the 'Regs' would be nonsense.

Maybe an "escape window" is sufficient?
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:59:39 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

They are useful if you have a Euro lock type door, typically a uPVC or
aluminium type. Mortice and latch type locks are normally fitted to
wooden
doors.

I'm sorry but that's a load of C****.

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the words "typically" and "usually".
They do not exclude other possibilities. I didn't claim that they were not
available.

However, Euro type locks on wooden doors are quite rare. They frequently
require considerable modification to the door, as they generally incorporate
espagnolette mechanisms, or considerable hollowing out of the door for a
mortice type.

I've certainly seen simple Euro cylinder based mortice locks available, but
haven't come across one claiming BS3621 approval, which is an absolute
requirement for front door security.

Actually, I have now found one, the Chubb 3C24/C. The total cost being
around 80 quid. However, I believe this is not allowed to be a Euro turn
handle cylinder, as I suspect BS3621 requires any lever/turn to be lockable.

Christian.


I've fitted Yale euro profile mortice deadlock and latch &lock to my
front and rear wooden doors - easily obtainable to BS standard .
Thumbturn on inside available as well but will not be BS !

I had fitted Abloy europrofile mortice locks to my last house 20 years
ago.

Euro profile morticelocks have been fitted to my last place of work (
hospital) for many years.
Robert

In article ,
writes
How secure are euro locks? Not very! They can all be opened in seconds with a
bump key, which is easily diy'd from a spare key.

You've done this yourself?
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

How secure are euro locks? Not very! They can all be opened in seconds
with a
bump key, which is easily diy'd from a spare key.

Not all Euro cylinders are the same. My last house had Euro locks and I
managed to source a very high security one. Keys could only be cut from a
code on a very large computerised milling machine, not copied at the local
cobblers. Keys were rectangular, with pits drilled into them, rather than a
"Yale" type blank cut from the edge.

Costs mucho money. BS3621 approved. 4 quid job from Screwfix is NOT the same
thing.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
How secure are euro locks? Not very! They can all be opened in seconds
with a
bump key, which is easily diy'd from a spare key.


Not all Euro cylinders are the same. My last house had Euro locks and I
managed to source a very high security one. Keys could only be cut from a
code on a very large computerised milling machine, not copied at the local
cobblers. Keys were rectangular, with pits drilled into them, rather than a
"Yale" type blank cut from the edge.

Costs mucho money. BS3621 approved. 4 quid job from Screwfix is NOT the same
thing.

Christian.



Did you see the reference to http://www.toool.nl/index-eng.php in the
bump-key thread?

Douglas de Lacey