I've just taken off the old tiles in my bathroom. Unfortunately behind
the upper tiles is orginial plaster (horse hair etc.) This has crumbled
and most of it has come off the wall. It appears that lower down a
similar problem occured in the past, as this has been replastered.

There are no damp patches

As I am going to re-tile I want some advice on what to patch up this
wall with. I have considered using thistle hardwall. But wasn't sure
whether to then put a smoother top coat on as well.

Any advice and tips gratefully received.

Tim

wrote:
I've just taken off the old tiles in my bathroom. Unfortunately behind
the upper tiles is orginial plaster (horse hair etc.) This has
crumbled and most of it has come off the wall. It appears that lower
down a similar problem occured in the past, as this has been
replastered.

There are no damp patches

As I am going to re-tile I want some advice on what to patch up this
wall with. I have considered using thistle hardwall. But wasn't sure
whether to then put a smoother top coat on as well.

Any advice and tips gratefully received.

Tim

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat

Suit yourself,but I'm telling you now if the wall your plastering over is
crumbly and actually not adhering to the wall any more?the new plaster will
not make one iota of a difference regards to keeping the tiles in place.
As you have already found they're coming away from that area of wall.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat

thats because there are a bunch of old women here who can't tile a wall
and seal a bath to stop water getting behind them.

Its actually fine.

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really loose
stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and less
than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get a true
level surface.

You can leave the battens in afterwards. The tiles won't care.

wrote in message
oups.com...

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat


The board will only get damp if the water is able to get through the tile
joints or via the edges .If you are troubled by that possibilty use a board
like Aquapanel by Knauf fitted on battens .There is loads of info on their
website .There are other alternatives like Hardibacker Board .


Stuart

anony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat


The board will only get damp if the water is able to get through the tile
joints or via the edges .If you are troubled by that possibilty use a board
like Aquapanel by Knauf fitted on battens .There is loads of info on their
website .There are other alternatives like Hardibacker Board .



bit after the fact, but cant you just put new tiles over old ones ?
(providing the old tiles are OK etc etc etc)




Stuart

wrote:
anony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat

The board will only get damp if the water is able to get through the tile
joints or via the edges .If you are troubled by that possibilty use a board
like Aquapanel by Knauf fitted on battens .There is loads of info on their
website .There are other alternatives like Hardibacker Board .



bit after the fact, but cant you just put new tiles over old ones ?
(providing the old tiles are OK etc etc etc)

You can. cement takes ages to grab though.

I prefer to rip/skim/re-tile.




Stuart

wrote in message
ups.com...

anony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Plasterboard it,then skim,not worth taking the chance if its crumbly.

Thanks, but most of the advice I have seen on this group suggests
steering clear of having plasterboard anyway near a bath/shower as it
doesn't respond well to damp. This was why I had thought of using an
undercoat


The board will only get damp if the water is able to get through the tile
joints or via the edges .If you are troubled by that possibilty use a
board
like Aquapanel by Knauf fitted on battens .There is loads of info on
their
website .There are other alternatives like Hardibacker Board .



bit after the fact, but cant you just put new tiles over old ones ?
(providing the old tiles are OK etc etc etc)



You can certainly tile on tile if the old tiles are secure but it seems that
the OP has other issues that neeed to be addressed.

Stuart

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really loose
stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and less
than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get a true
level surface.

Thanks everyone for the tips. I will be doing bonding plaster. The size
and shape of the unsound areas would not work with plasterboard.

Just to clarify 2/3rds of the wall has already been replastered, and is
still sound. So I am plastering an irregular area of about 2ft by 6ft.

Another question now arises.
Should I use pva with bonding plaster? I thought this was supposed to
stick itself. If it do use it, should it dry first or do it plaster
while still tacky.

I do a lot of tiling in my work and come up against this problem
occasionaly, I would not recomend plasterboard as even waterproof
adhesive and grout ( apart from epoxy) will let water in over time
unless you tanked it all with a rubber solution which then might be ok.
I f you want to get it done quickly, I would recommend BAL Quick Set
cement a specialist product with no shrinkage problems which can be
tiled on after 24 hrs as opposed to ordinary cement or ordinary quick
drying cement. Otherwise go for plastering but if it is a large area
you should wait for a couple of weeks before plastering and don't
forget to use a primer. PS. I am allways coming across dodgy tiling
jobs where tilers have tiled on plasterboard and after a few years they
start leaking.

Housemartin wrote:
I do a lot of tiling in my work and come up against this problem
occasionaly, I would not recomend plasterboard as even waterproof
adhesive and grout ( apart from epoxy) will let water in over time
unless you tanked it all with a rubber solution which then might be
ok. I f you want to get it done quickly, I would recommend BAL Quick
Set cement a specialist product with no shrinkage problems which can
be tiled on after 24 hrs as opposed to ordinary cement or ordinary
quick drying cement. Otherwise go for plastering but if it is a large
area you should wait for a couple of weeks before plastering and don't
forget to use a primer. PS. I am allways coming across dodgy tiling
jobs where tilers have tiled on plasterboard and after a few years
they start leaking.

I'm a bit puzzled here? you say its wrong to tile over plasterboard
(Bearing in mind the PB has been skimmed) so if a client (you being a tiler
like) asked you to tile their bathroom how would you know the bathroom
walls havn't been PBoarded and skimmed?

Your talking crap.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Housemartin wrote:
I do a lot of tiling in my work and come up against this problem
occasionaly, I would not recomend plasterboard as even waterproof
adhesive and grout ( apart from epoxy) will let water in over time
unless you tanked it all with a rubber solution which then might be ok.
I f you want to get it done quickly, I would recommend BAL Quick Set
cement a specialist product with no shrinkage problems which can be
tiled on after 24 hrs as opposed to ordinary cement or ordinary quick
drying cement. Otherwise go for plastering but if it is a large area
you should wait for a couple of weeks before plastering and don't
forget to use a primer. PS. I am allways coming across dodgy tiling
jobs where tilers have tiled on plasterboard and after a few years they
start leaking.

I have tiled all three of my bathrooms onto bare plasterboard. All are
fine and have no leaks at all after 4 years.

The last one - he 4th - I had to replaster after I installed a hidden
shower mixer. I tiled after 24 hours. Strengely, the tiles haven't
fallen off, and despite the fact its a shower whose wall gets drenched,
the plasterboard is till intact.

If the grout is as permeable as you make out, the plaster will dry out
that way won't it?

Dickhead.

I guess thats what happens to 'professional plumbers' - the last one
nailed through a hot water pipe. Since then I haven't employed one.

I am perfectly capable of nailing through my own water pipes without
'professional' assistance.....

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Housemartin wrote:
I do a lot of tiling in my work and come up against this problem
occasionaly, I would not recomend plasterboard as even waterproof
adhesive and grout ( apart from epoxy) will let water in over time
unless you tanked it all with a rubber solution which then might be
ok. I f you want to get it done quickly, I would recommend BAL Quick
Set cement a specialist product with no shrinkage problems which can
be tiled on after 24 hrs as opposed to ordinary cement or ordinary
quick drying cement. Otherwise go for plastering but if it is a large
area you should wait for a couple of weeks before plastering and don't
forget to use a primer. PS. I am allways coming across dodgy tiling
jobs where tilers have tiled on plasterboard and after a few years
they start leaking.

I'm a bit puzzled here? you say its wrong to tile over plasterboard
(Bearing in mind the PB has been skimmed) so if a client (you being a tiler
like) asked you to tile their bathroom how would you know the bathroom
walls havn't been PBoarded and skimmed?

Your talking crap.

Its the line he uses to persuade suckers they need to spend a fortune on
aquapanel.

Its like the last plumber I had who assured me that the flow rate I wold
get on my showers was totally dependent on where the hot water tank was,
in a fully mains pressure system...

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really loose
stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and less
than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get a true
level surface.

Thanks everyone for the tips. I will be doing bonding plaster. The size
and shape of the unsound areas would not work with plasterboard.

Just to clarify 2/3rds of the wall has already been replastered, and is
still sound. So I am plastering an irregular area of about 2ft by 6ft.

Another question now arises.
Should I use pva with bonding plaster? I thought this was supposed to
stick itself. If it do use it, should it dry first or do it plaster
while still tacky.


IME it doesn't really matter what you use, with or without pva. Nothing
will bond reliably to crumbly plaster.
I'd use plasterboard, however irregular the shapes. It cuts easily
enough. Screw it to the brickwork to be sure, and skim (or not if you
get it reasonably flush).

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really loose
stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and less
than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get a true
level surface.

You can leave the battens in afterwards. The tiles won't care.

Thanks for a useful tip. Tried the battens and it was really easy

Before. http://img.photoamp.com/i/xJQqmF1.jpg

After http://img.photoamp.com/i/XIfQYzzku.jpg

Miraculously This needed exactly one bag of Wickes one coat plaster.

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really
loose stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding
plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and
less than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get
a true level surface.

You can leave the battens in afterwards. The tiles won't care.

Thanks for a useful tip. Tried the battens and it was really easy

Before. http://img.photoamp.com/i/xJQqmF1.jpg

After http://img.photoamp.com/i/XIfQYzzku.jpg

Miraculously This needed exactly one bag of Wickes one coat plaster.

Weird,never seen plaster that colour before?

Now take the battens out and remedy the slots.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...

Weird,never seen plaster that colour before?

Presumably you mean the dark stuff and not the pink ;-)


Now take the battens out and remedy the slots.

Why?? The tiles will quite happily stay there by the adhesive gripping to
the surface of the wood and plaster either side of the battens. Why create
work for the sake of it? Also if the OP 'remembers' where they are he will
get a better fixing for bathroom accesories etc. I would leave them in.

HTH

John

John wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...

Weird,never seen plaster that colour before?

Presumably you mean the dark stuff and not the pink ;-)


Now take the battens out and remedy the slots.

Why?? The tiles will quite happily stay there by the adhesive
gripping to the surface of the wood and plaster either side of the
battens. Why create work for the sake of it? Also if the OP
'remembers' where they are he will get a better fixing for bathroom
accesories etc. I would leave them in.

HTH

John

Your coloured blind mate,looks a shade of khaki to me.

Tiling adhesive does not bond well to wood and it'll expand slightly in
time,probably give loosening to the adhesive.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:

However if the wall is mainly sound, I's simply rip off the really
loose stuff, PVA the slightly OK stuff and reskim with a bonding
plaster.

No need for a finish style plaster if you are tiling anyway.

If you are as crap at plastering as I am, get some batten and nail
carefully up so that there is a facing of batten that is true, and
less than a floats width apart, and then use that as a guide to get
a true level surface.

You can leave the battens in afterwards. The tiles won't care.
Thanks for a useful tip. Tried the battens and it was really easy

Before. http://img.photoamp.com/i/xJQqmF1.jpg

After http://img.photoamp.com/i/XIfQYzzku.jpg

Miraculously This needed exactly one bag of Wickes one coat plaster.

Weird,never seen plaster that colour before?

ALL my plaster is that colour..


Now take the battens out and remedy the slots.

Well if you are painting, yes..if tiling...who gives a XXXXX