Hi All,

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Eg, you can get one on Maplin for £3.99 yet I'm sure I've seen them in
my local electrical shop for £16+?

I would have though 3 neons and a few resistors in a plastic moulding
should be nearer the £3.99 mark but have I missed something (like
certification / accuracy / reliability etc)?

I have had a blue one for many years now (or *had* till I went for it
the other day and can't find it ..) so was thinking of getting a
replacement till it turns up (and it will of course) but didn't know
if there were subtly different / more sophisticated jobbies out there
now that warranted the high cost (and if so were they 'better'
safer)?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. Any of the mains sheds sellum (at the right price) please?

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

I've got a 4 quid one and it is fine. Obviously, it isn't proper test
equipment, but it is excellent for a rapid check. I got it either from
Screwfix or TLC.

Christian.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:51:48 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

I've got a 4 quid one and it is fine. Obviously, it isn't proper test
equipment, but it is excellent for a rapid check. I got it either from
Screwfix or TLC.

Cheers fella.

I believe my 'errant' tester was (is) a

"Martindale classic CP501 Check Plug"

This it suggests shows a 'good' condition by having all 3 neons on, so
if a neon fails it doesn't suggest everything is ok (unlike the more
basic testers than don't indicate 'positive' for no voltage between
earth / neutral)?

That said, neons are pretty reliable aren't they .. ?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally)

No. A neon is a neon.

They're great for finding faults in circuits that are perfectly
connected and in good condition, but might have topological faults
(swapped connections, no connection). For anything in-between (leakage,
high impedance) then they're beyond useless and possibly dangerous, if
trusted as a safety measure.

If swapped wires are a risk (?!) then they could be useful. For
anything else, then I'm just not sure what you'd expect them to tell
you.

This it suggests shows a 'good' condition by having all 3 neons on, so
if a neon fails it doesn't suggest everything is ok (unlike the more
basic testers than don't indicate 'positive' for no voltage between
earth / neutral)?

My cheapie is also like this. 3 lights means go.

Christian.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:28:57 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

This it suggests shows a 'good' condition by having all 3 neons on, so
if a neon fails it doesn't suggest everything is ok (unlike the more
basic testers than don't indicate 'positive' for no voltage between
earth / neutral)?

My cheapie is also like this. 3 lights means go.

Ah, ok, thanks ;-)

Cheers ..

T i m

On 21 Aug 2006 05:13:22 -0700, wrote:


T i m wrote:

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally)

No. A neon is a neon.

So none of these devices use further electronics / LED's for example?

They're great for finding faults in circuits that are perfectly
connected and in good condition, but might have topological faults
(swapped connections, no connection). For anything in-between (leakage,
high impedance) then they're beyond useless and possibly dangerous, if
trusted as a safety measure.

Understood (although I believe there are some 'sophisticated' variants
on the basic 3 neon jobbies that can also display earth loop impedance
etc).

If swapped wires are a risk (?!) then they could be useful.

Some 'swapped wires' can be a risk can't they (live / earth) or have
I missed summat (again) ;-(


For
anything else, then I'm just not sure what you'd expect them to tell
you.

Well nothing, I was just asking if 'you get's what you pays for' with
these things and it would seem from the other replies for yer basic 3
neon jobbies the answer is no (unless you only pay a fiver that is)
;-)

The background thought (and reason for the question) was have things
moved on with such devices .. saves all the 'who sold you that then'
type comments .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Mine, at around £15, also tests RCDs which I've found handy. I say
'test' but whilst it can apply various fault currents (10mA, 30mA,
100mA etc) it doesn't actually test the trip *time*. That said, it's
been useful if only as a reassurance tool - arguably the intended
purpose for this kind of tool.

It was from CPC however looking at the catalogue I don't know if it's
still available as they have a similar one at
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?sku=IN02013 but
it's £20 however it does appear to test RCD trip time (albeit only for
30mA?).

Mathew

T i m wrote:
On 21 Aug 2006 05:13:22 -0700, wrote:
T i m wrote:

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally)

No. A neon is a neon.

So none of these devices use further electronics / LED's for example?

They're great for finding faults in circuits that are perfectly
connected and in good condition, but might have topological faults
(swapped connections, no connection). For anything in-between (leakage,
high impedance) then they're beyond useless and possibly dangerous, if
trusted as a safety measure.

Understood (although I believe there are some 'sophisticated' variants
on the basic 3 neon jobbies that can also display earth loop impedance
etc).

If swapped wires are a risk (?!) then they could be useful.

Some 'swapped wires' can be a risk can't they (live / earth) or have
I missed summat (again) ;-(


For
anything else, then I'm just not sure what you'd expect them to tell
you.

Well nothing, I was just asking if 'you get's what you pays for' with
these things and it would seem from the other replies for yer basic 3
neon jobbies the answer is no (unless you only pay a fiver that is)
;-)

The background thought (and reason for the question) was have things
moved on with such devices .. saves all the 'who sold you that then'
type comments .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

As well as the basic 3 neon ones that check for swapped wires, I've
seen more expensive ones that claim to test a bunch of extra stuff, and
iirc have a 3rd indicator mode (as well as on/off). But I dont recall
exactly what they claimed and havent used them. The basic ones can be
assembled for £1 or bought for a few earth pounds.


NT

It's a very useful quick check tool, e.g. are the wires the correct way
round or has someone colourblind been allowed in here (happened to me
bigtime, in a marine environment), and is there some sort of earth
present? (not necessarily a very good one). Very good for
quick-checking extension leads.

I remember one of the electronics mags with a self-build project using
resistors and leds.

I think I may have seen (or possibly imagined) an lcd version somewhere
that popped up a little "good" message or told you the fault - just in
case you couldn't compare the light pattern with the list on the front.

T i m wrote:

No. A neon is a neon.


So none of these devices use further electronics / LED's for example?

My one uses three multicolour LEDs which light in various combinations
and colours to indicate different fault conditions.

They're great for finding faults in circuits that are perfectly
connected and in good condition, but might have topological faults
(swapped connections, no connection). For anything in-between (leakage,
high impedance) then they're beyond useless and possibly dangerous, if
trusted as a safety measure.


Understood (although I believe there are some 'sophisticated' variants
on the basic 3 neon jobbies that can also display earth loop impedance
etc).

Not seen one that does earth loop, but there are various electronic ones
that can detect more faults than the basic ones.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...cpc/267541.xml
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?SKU=IN02208

If swapped wires are a risk (?!) then they could be useful.


Some 'swapped wires' can be a risk can't they (live / earth) or have
I missed summat (again) ;-(

ITHM "if swapped wires are likely" (they always present a risk if
present). Also one of the standard tests on new wiring ought to test
polarity at each outlet.

For
anything else, then I'm just not sure what you'd expect them to tell
you.


Well nothing, I was just asking if 'you get's what you pays for' with
these things and it would seem from the other replies for yer basic 3
neon jobbies the answer is no (unless you only pay a fiver that is)
;-)

Some have audio go/nogo indications - handy for brightly lit
environments. Others have more sophisticated fault reporting.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The message
from T i m contains these words:


Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

IIRC they can't tell the difference between a correctly wired socket and
one with neutral and earth interchanged. But I could be wrong.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Eg, you can get one on Maplin for £3.99 yet I'm sure I've seen them in
my local electrical shop for £16+?

The basic ones are just neons and give an indication of wrong connection.
But more sophisticated ones exist which do other tests.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

IIRC they can't tell the difference between a correctly wired socket and
one with neutral and earth interchanged. But I could be wrong.

You are correct. Mine came with a specific warning about this. It is quite
an uncommon fault, though, at least after the consumer unit.

Christian.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Eg, you can get one on Maplin for £3.99 yet I'm sure I've seen them in
my local electrical shop for £16+?

The basic ones are just neons and give an indication of wrong connection.
But more sophisticated ones exist which do other tests.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

This unit is handy for testing when doing quotes; as a quick test on the
condition of the earth loop: -

Martindale E-Ze Check Extra

It gives an earth loop test of 10, 100, 200 or 500 ohm, useful when you are
assessing the need for an update on the main bonding.

Jaymack

On 21 Aug 2006 06:36:41 -0700, wrote:



As well as the basic 3 neon ones that check for swapped wires, I've
seen more expensive ones that claim to test a bunch of extra stuff, and
iirc have a 3rd indicator mode (as well as on/off). But I dont recall
exactly what they claimed and havent used them. The basic ones can be
assembled for £1 or bought for a few earth pounds.

I thought there must (and found via Google) be some cleverer ones out
there now.

Just didn't want to spend more money than needed on summat that was
basically something I could make myself, but needed to know if there
was something 'sexy' that could be bought for a few quid more (from
the guys that were using this stuff regularly). ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On 21 Aug 2006 06:12:08 -0700, "Mathew Newton"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Mine, at around £15, also tests RCDs which I've found handy. I say
'test' but whilst it can apply various fault currents (10mA, 30mA,
100mA etc) it doesn't actually test the trip *time*. That said, it's
been useful if only as a reassurance tool - arguably the intended
purpose for this kind of tool.

Well exactly. Not only to you learn that there are no major issues
with the wiring but that the RCD does do *something* ;-)

It was from CPC however looking at the catalogue I don't know if it's
still available as they have a similar one at
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?sku=IN02013 but
it's £20 however it does appear to test RCD trip time (albeit only for
30mA?).

Hmm, interesting. Isn't it annoying how often these days a handy VFM
product disappears to be *nearly* replaced by an 'alternative' ? ;-(

All the best and thanks for the heads up Mathew ..

T i m

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:04:34 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


So none of these devices use further electronics / LED's for example?

My one uses three multicolour LEDs which light in various combinations
and colours to indicate different fault conditions.

Kool .. we like multicolored flashing lights ;-)


Understood (although I believe there are some 'sophisticated' variants
on the basic 3 neon jobbies that can also display earth loop impedance
etc).

Not seen one that does earth loop, but there are various electronic ones
that can detect more faults than the basic ones.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?SKU=IN02208

Looks a nice little jobby (and I have never really liked neons) ;-)

If swapped wires are a risk (?!) then they could be useful.


Some 'swapped wires' can be a risk can't they (live / earth) or have
I missed summat (again) ;-(

ITHM "if swapped wires are likely" (they always present a risk if
present). Also one of the standard tests on new wiring ought to test
polarity at each outlet.

Understood.

For
anything else, then I'm just not sure what you'd expect them to tell
you.


Well nothing, I was just asking if 'you get's what you pays for' with
these things and it would seem from the other replies for yer basic 3
neon jobbies the answer is no (unless you only pay a fiver that is)
;-)

Some have audio go/nogo indications - handy for brightly lit
environments.

Something you might not consider till you are having to shade the
thing with yer hand to see what's going on! ;-(

Others have more sophisticated fault reporting.

So it seems .. I suppose it really depends on if they actually do the
job better or offer more options etc ?

All the best John ..

T i m

On 21 Aug 2006 06:40:47 -0700, " wrote:

It's a very useful quick check tool, e.g. are the wires the correct way
round or has someone colourblind been allowed in here (happened to me
bigtime, in a marine environment), and is there some sort of earth
present? (not necessarily a very good one). Very good for
quick-checking extension leads.

And something else I did today .. and quickly highlighted a blown fuse
;-)

I remember one of the electronics mags with a self-build project using
resistors and leds.

My Google search actually threw up a DIY neon jobby .. trouble is it
cost the same to make as it would to buy (as is often the case these
days) ;-(

I think I may have seen (or possibly imagined) an lcd version somewhere
that popped up a little "good" message or told you the fault - just in
case you couldn't compare the light pattern with the list on the front.

Oh dear ... sounds 'tekky' though .. I want one! ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:38:30 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from T i m contains these words:


Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

IIRC they can't tell the difference between a correctly wired socket and
one with neutral and earth interchanged. But I could be wrong.


I think you are right Guy .. the one I picked up today specifically
states "This unit will not detect the reverse of earth and neutral"
;-)

However I don't think that fault is particularly ducks dangerous and
would be indicated by the RCD tripping (if there is one) in any case
once the faultily wired socket was used?

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:57:06 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Those 13A fitting 'Mains test plugs' .. are there good one and bad
ones (generally) or are they all basically as 'good' (bad?) as each
other?

Eg, you can get one on Maplin for £3.99 yet I'm sure I've seen them in
my local electrical shop for £16+?

The basic ones are just neons and give an indication of wrong connection.

My first thought .. but because I wanted one in a hurry (helping a
mate out today / couldn't find mine .. ) I had to buy one where I
could find one (none in Wickes or Homebase). With a bit of discount I
got him down to a tenner. ;-(


But more sophisticated ones exist which do other tests.

And for more money ..

However, it seems for only a few quid more than I paid for a 'basic'
one I could have got one that uses LED's and / or did simple RCD go/no
go tests.

Oh well, when someone is doing a 'special' sale maybe .. you never
know when I'll loose this one .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:50:19 +0100, "John McLean"
wrote:


This unit is handy for testing when doing quotes; as a quick test on the
condition of the earth loop: -

Martindale E-Ze Check Extra

It gives an earth loop test of 10, 100, 200 or 500 ohm, useful when you are
assessing the need for an update on the main bonding.

And searching on that model specifically found it six quid less (@£39)
than I saw it this morning.

As mentioned, fine for a quick test but would never replace the proper
gear.

Oh well, Xmyth is coming .... ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote in
:


Some 'swapped wires' can be a risk can't they (live / earth) or have
I missed summat (again) ;-(


No, not this time - mine doesn't detect an earth/neutral cross

mike

The message
from T i m contains these words:

I think you are right Guy .. the one I picked up today specifically
states "This unit will not detect the reverse of earth and neutral"
;-)

However I don't think that fault is particularly ducks dangerous and
would be indicated by the RCD tripping (if there is one) in any case
once the faultily wired socket was used?

You'd certainly hope so, but it'd depend where it had got crossed. If it
were before the RCD then it wouldn't. Though whether it would then be
particularly dangerous is a moot point provided the conductor
thicknesses are up to it.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.