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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball
valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. -- Graham. |
#2
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
"Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Alan -- Graham. |
#3
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:01:51 UTC, "Alan Holmes"
wrote: "Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Not the ball valve he means. The construction is similar to the small service valves one should fit in the feed to things. A rotating spherical shell in a spherical chamber, with holes that rotate in line with the pipes to open, and reverse to close. To answer the OP, although others will know more...ball valves (in this context) give full flow, as do gate valves. Only ball valves give no flow; gate valves (a) leak a bit and (b) tend to jam. They're also much slower to operate. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
#4
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On 20 Aug 2006 22:15:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:01:51 UTC, "Alan Holmes" wrote: "Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Not the ball valve he means. The construction is similar to the small service valves one should fit in the feed to things. A rotating spherical shell in a spherical chamber, with holes that rotate in line with the pipes to open, and reverse to close. A "globe" valve in fact. If there is sediment in the water a globe valve is probably better, since a gate valve may have difficulty seating properly in the presence of sludge. -- Frank Erskine Sunderland |
#5
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Bob Eager wrote:
To answer the OP, although others will know more...ball valves (in this context) give full flow, as do gate valves. Only ball valves give no flow; gate valves (a) leak a bit and (b) tend to jam. They're also much slower to operate. IME neither gives full flow. Ball valves can leak too. |
#6
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On 2006-08-20 23:01:51 +0100, "Alan Holmes" said:
"Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Alan Not quite. There is such a thing as a lever ball valve and it is a good choice instead of a gate valve Ball type float valves are deprecated technology |
#7
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: Ball type float valves are deprecated technology Maybe, but they are *far* more reliable than Torbeck type ones. -- *I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#8
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Ball type float valves are deprecated technology Maybe, but they are *far* more reliable than Torbeck type ones. Depends on your water. if lime isn't a probem, then a Torbeck will out-last the rubber seat of a traditional ball valve. I always fit Torbecks to toilets because they fill faster (flow isn't throttled gradually as the cistern fills). I don't bother to use them for header tanks though. |
#9
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
In article .com,
wrote: Ball type float valves are deprecated technology Maybe, but they are *far* more reliable than Torbeck type ones. Depends on your water. if lime isn't a probem, then a Torbeck will out-last the rubber seat of a traditional ball valve. I do live in a soft water area, though. But I'm not sure about outlast or if that matters given a ball valve rubber can last 25 years plus. I do know the one Torbeck I have has needed attention several times while the ball valves seem to go on for ever. I always fit Torbecks to toilets because they fill faster (flow isn't throttled gradually as the cistern fills). I don't bother to use them for header tanks though. -- *Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#10
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2006-08-20 23:01:51 +0100, "Alan Holmes" said: "Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Alan Not quite. There is such a thing as a lever ball valve and it is a good choice instead of a gate valve Ball type float valves are deprecated technology So what is the alternative to control the level in a water tank? |
#11
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Ball type float valves are deprecated technology
So what is the alternative to control the level in a water tank? Generally, the alternative these days is not to have water tanks, except toilet cisterns. Assuming this is not possible, you can use other types of float valve, such as Torbeck or Fluidmaster. Christian. |
#12
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:06:37 UTC, "Alan Holmes"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2006-08-20 23:01:51 +0100, "Alan Holmes" said: "Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. A ball valve is to set the level of water in a header tank, a gate valve is use to shut off or allow a flow of water. Two completely different uses. Alan Not quite. There is such a thing as a lever ball valve and it is a good choice instead of a gate valve Ball type float valves are deprecated technology So what is the alternative to control the level in a water tank? Torbeck. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
#13
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
"Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. -- Graham. gate valves 'let by' and sometimes drop their 'gate' from the thread - -- (º·.¸(¨*·.¸ ¸.·*¨)¸.·º) .·°·. NIK .·°·. (¸.·º(¸.·¨* *¨·.¸)º·.¸) |
#14
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
NikV wrote:
"Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. gate valves 'let by' and sometimes drop their 'gate' from the thread - given the list of cons mentioned, why r they used? NT |
#16
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Frank Erskine wrote: given the list of cons mentioned, why r they used? They're cheap :-) they're crap. Plumbers are old fashioned and dont like to change to easy fittings. I am referring to flexible hose connections for whb's and flexible waste pipes etc they can be fitted in a few minutes whereas bending copper and cutting and joining pipes makes a big job out of a little one. I always use the ball valve now for sheer convenience and ease of opening. gate valves almost always are stuck and you never know if they are open or closed. |
#18
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On 2006-08-21 00:12:28 +0100, Frank Erskine
said: On 20 Aug 2006 16:09:36 -0700, wrote: NikV wrote: "Graham" wrote in message ... What are the advantages and disadvantages of gate valves and full-bore Ball valves for mains water, and isolating parts of a CH system. gate valves 'let by' and sometimes drop their 'gate' from the thread - given the list of cons mentioned, why r they used? They're cheap :-) Although the delta between these and ball valves is now pretty low.... |
#19
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
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#20
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
given the list of cons mentioned, why r they used?
They're not used in my house. Ball valves (either lever full bore or small bore isolation) or nothing. Even my main stopcock is a full bore lever ball valve. Christian. |
#21
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Thanks for the replies, They mostly confirmed my gut thoughts about the
matter. One follow-up if I may? What about radiator lockshield (and non-TRV) valves? they are usually, if not always gate valves, and most of mine have weeping steams if not kept fully open. Are gate valves preferred for this application because they are better at controlling the flow i.e. nether fully open nor closed? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
#22
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Graham wrote:
Thanks for the replies, They mostly confirmed my gut thoughts about the matter. One follow-up if I may? What about radiator lockshield (and non-TRV) valves? they are usually, if not always gate valves, and most of mine have weeping steams if not kept fully open. Are gate valves preferred for this application because they are better at controlling the flow i.e. nether fully open nor closed? Yup. (You may be able to repack the valve gland with grease to stop them weeping when partially open) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#23
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
In article ,
"Graham" writes: Thanks for the replies, They mostly confirmed my gut thoughts about the matter. One follow-up if I may? What about radiator lockshield (and non-TRV) valves? they are usually, if not always gate valves, Actually, they aren't gate valves. and most of mine have weeping steams if not kept fully open. That's a different problem -- the stuffing box wants repacking (might just get away with tightening down the nut, if you can find a compromise where the valve can still be turned, but it stops leaking). Usually, you have to dismantle to clean up the shaft once it's been leaking, as the shaft will have become encrusted which also prevents sealing. Given how cheap these valves are, it's probably not worth bothering to repair one nowadays. Are gate valves preferred for this application because they are better at controlling the flow i.e. nether fully open nor closed? Gate values are good for controlling flow, where you might want them fully open with minimum pressure drop. They aren't good at sealing off, particularly dirty water. (Generally you do want radiator valves to be able to seal off.) -- Andrew Gabriel |
#24
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On 2006-08-21 00:57:49 +0100, "Graham" said:
Thanks for the replies, They mostly confirmed my gut thoughts about the matter. One follow-up if I may? What about radiator lockshield (and non-TRV) valves? they are usually, if not always gate valves, and most of mine have weeping steams if not kept fully open. Are gate valves preferred for this application because they are better at controlling the flow i.e. nether fully open nor closed? They tend to be a washer on the end of a plunger which progressively closes the gap to the seat as it goes down - by rotation or being pushed by a pin in the case of a TRV. The range of operation is achieved with quite small movement - about 3-4mm. If you have weeping valves it is because they are worn out or were crap in the first place. You can go round tightening them and packing them, but IME it doesn't last. I would have a blitz and replace the lot - it's do-able easily in a morning. Also, I would recommend getting good quality valves. They cost a little more, but when you consider the time and cost of replacing inhibitor after draining to fix one valve, it's worth it. I did this exercise a few years ago and used Pegler Terrier valves for the lockshields and Drayton TRV4s for the TRVs. For the lockshields you can get them with a drain connection on the radiator side of the valve. This is useful and a lot less messy when taking radiators off for decorating etc. |
#25
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:15:46 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
when you consider the time and cost of replacing inhibitor after draining to fix one valve, it's worth it. You don't *need* to drain down to change valves, assuming a normal open vented system. Get the plug set for blocking the vent pipe and cold feed and a some old towels to catch the small amount of seepage and away you go. I'd also shut the valve at the other end of the radiator as well and any zone isolation valves just make sure. When doing this it is vital that you only open the system at one point at a time, *never* two... -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
#26
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Gate valves vs. Ball valves.
Andy Hall wrote:
If you have weeping valves it is because they are worn out or were crap in the first place. You can go round tightening them and packing them, but IME it doesn't last. I would have a blitz and replace the lot - it's do-able easily in a morning. Also, I would recommend getting good quality valves. They cost a little more, but when you consider the time and cost of replacing inhibitor after draining to fix one valve, it's worth it. I inherited a system with the valves being female at both ends (rad and pipework). Does anyone know if such things are still available? When I have to do it, it's going to be tricky to change the connectors on some of the pipes:-( Douglas de Lacey |
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