Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

There is a malady in this country that makes everything 1.6 times more
expensive than prices over there. It was once brought to everyone's
attention because of the price of CDs in Robber Britain.

So where does the piracy come in? I have never seen a cohesive,
logical, cogent answer.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router



So?, why not import the bugger?

On 2006-08-17 02:21:21 +0100, "The3rd Earl Of Derby" said:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

The Porter Cable routers are worth having, although I guess the one you
are looking at was the fixed base one. These are fine, but take some
getting used to if you are familiar with plunge machines.

The Ryobi one is no better than Ryobi stuff sold here, and the router
is distinctly marginal, so wouldn't worry too much about that.

The store you found, Home Depot, is the world's largest DIY retailer by
far. Lowe's, another U.S. retailer is no. 2, and our very own
Kingfisher (B&Q, Castorama, etc.) is no. 3. It won't have escaped
your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home Depot
right down to the meet and greet guy at the door.

There has long been an issue with pricing in the U.S. being lower than
in Europe on various goods.

Factors a

- Customer expectation
- Volume. the big Chinese manufacturing operations like Techtronics
(who make Ryobi and various private label stuff, can give much better
pricing to the buyers from HD for example.
- Exchange rate. Right now the pound is trading at $1.90, making
dollar priced goods appear cheaper.
- VAT. 15-25% in Europe. In the U.S., the closest equivalent, sales
tax is 0 - 8.5% or so.


I quite frequently buy tools in the U.S. and import them. There's a
few caveats:


- It's not worth it for low priced items because the shipping cost
becomes significant. Exception is if you make a trip, buy a lot of
stuff and bring it back with you. A £145 customs allowance for duty
and VAT helps as well. A £200 ticket to the East Coast can make this
an interesting exercise.

- Tools are 110v. This is not a problem for those with universal
motors (most hand power tools) - you can run them from a site
transformer - but probably is for anything with an induction motor
because these are often designed for 50Hz or 60Hz operation but not
both.

- Warranty. Probably not economic to return a low value tool - or
even a higher value one.

So I choose carefully. I only go for tools where I know that I can
get spares in Europe. This has to be watched, because sometimes there
are subtle differences in certain components to meet market
requirements or safety legislation. For example, you may notice that
the PC router has a toggle switch. That's not considered acceptable
in European safety requirements.

The grass can be greener, and there are some good things to be had, but
it is necessary to shop carefully.

On 2006-08-17 07:49:17 +0100, Mike Dodd
said:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router



So?, why not import the bugger?

Not worth it.

a) Shipping cost would exceed price of router

b) It's junk anyway

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

- Warranty. Probably not economic to return a low value tool - or
even a higher value one.

And consumer rights in the States aren't a patch on what they are here.
They rely on caveat emptor rather a lot.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 2006-08-17 08:37:16 +0100, Guy King said:

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

- Warranty. Probably not economic to return a low value tool - or
even a higher value one.

And consumer rights in the States aren't a patch on what they are here.
They rely on caveat emptor rather a lot.

.... and in this instance, the practicality of invoking same.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.


Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

What like:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...22573&ts=04824

Cheaper to buy it here then! ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- VAT. 15-25% in Europe. In the U.S., the closest equivalent, sales
tax is 0 - 8.5% or so.

The prices in the shops didn't include the sales tax last time I was there.
It gets added at the till.

John Rumm wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.


Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

What like:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...22573&ts=04824

Cheaper to buy it here then! ;-)


/================================================== ===============\
Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
-----------------------------------------------------------------|
John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thats a plunge router. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

It won't have escaped
your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home Depot right
down to the meet and greet guy at the door.


Do the Yank checkout operators have to deliver those
"Staff announcement, customer service seven-thousand, checkout two please!"
soliloquies?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

What like:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...22573&ts=04824

Cheaper to buy it here then! ;-)

Thats a plunge router. ;-)

Even better then ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Graham" wrote in message
...

It won't have escaped
your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home
Depot right
down to the meet and greet guy at the door.


Do the Yank checkout operators have to deliver those
"Staff announcement, customer service seven-thousand, checkout two
please!"
soliloquies?


I was once at the checkout in a large (warehouse) shop when a member
of staff put the following sort of announcement over the PA 'Can the
duty manager please come to the customer service desk'. There was a
elderly chap in a B&Q uniform at the next checkout, when he heard the
announcement he walked forward, slammed his goods down on the counter
and shouted at the stunned till operator "You should use codes like
we do, not tell the world your business" and stormed out the door!..

Weatherlawyer wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

There is a malady in this country that makes everything 1.6 times more
expensive than prices over there. It was once brought to everyone's
attention because of the price of CDs in Robber Britain.

So where does the piracy come in? I have never seen a cohesive,
logical, cogent answer.

It works like this; In America, they make products and sell them at the cost
of materials, plus all charges incurred in making them, plus a small amount
for the profit margin.
In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we think
we can get for them.

The UK is the motorway services of the world, where everything costs 3 times
as much as it does in the real world.

The message
from "Phil L" contains these words:

In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we
think
we can get for them.

It's called "gouging" and there's a lot of it goes on.

I don't know if this is still the case (it probably is), but a few years
ago, Dixons used to have meetings at which they'd play with unbadged
samples of new electronic gizmos like radio-cassettes and Walkmenalikes
and clock radios etc. They'd decide what perceived level of quality they
fitted and choose a brand name to assign them to. Then they'd negotiate
with the holder of that name (like JCV or Sanyo or whatever[1]) and set
a price which was for all intents arbitrary - just so long as it was
more than they bought it for! The actual markup was wildly variable.

[1] The dregs got branded Saisho.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 2006-08-17 20:56:26 +0100, "Phil L" said:



It works like this; In America, they make products and sell them at the
cost of materials, plus all charges incurred in making them, plus a
small amount for the profit margin.
In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we
think we can get for them.

Err... no. There is the same lack of manufacturing industry in the
U.S. in the tools and machinery sector as there is here.

Operating on low margins, if one is manufacturing and taking the
development and service costs, only works if the volume is high enough
to amortise them.

On 2006-08-17 15:26:52 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...

- VAT. 15-25% in Europe. In the U.S., the closest equivalent, sales
tax is 0 - 8.5% or so.

The prices in the shops didn't include the sales tax last time I was there.
It gets added at the till.

Yes it does, that's quite right.

If you go into a store like Home Depot and explain that the goods are
for export and that they shouldn't charge sales tax, there is likely to
be a blank look. Even if you speak Spanish it doesn't help.

Some of the professional tool stores are geared up for not charging
sales tax. You have to fill in a form and they take a copy of photo ID
like a passport.

So the equation, if you shop in person, becomes one of does price plus
sales tax cost less than a UK purchase, bearing in mind £145 VAT and
duty allowance.

If you shop remotely, the sales tax is not charged, but there is VAT
and duty on the whole thing. Also. some traders charge a lot for
packing and shipping. This can be circumvented by having a DHL or
Fedex account and telling them to use it.





Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

On 2006-08-17 15:50:15 +0100, "Graham" said:


It won't have escaped
your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home Depot
right down to the meet and greet guy at the door.


Do the Yank checkout operators have to deliver those
"Staff announcement, customer service seven-thousand, checkout two please!"
soliloquies?

Oh yes.

The boot's on the other foot. Every concept in B&Q has been
faithfully nicked from HD, right down to the plastic buckets instead of
baskets..


One thing that HD does have that is good is self service checkouts.
They have stations where you scan each item yourself and it goes into a
bag. You pay at the end and away you go.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-08-17 02:21:21 +0100, "The3rd Earl Of Derby" said:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for
78.42GBP
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

And 31.56GBP for this
http://tinyurl.com/bhzp3

Damn why is this country such a big ripoff.

Sorry it takes you back to the home page.
Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

The Porter Cable routers are worth having, although I guess the one you
are looking at was the fixed base one. These are fine, but take some
getting used to if you are familiar with plunge machines.

The Ryobi one is no better than Ryobi stuff sold here, and the router
is distinctly marginal, so wouldn't worry too much about that.

The store you found, Home Depot, is the world's largest DIY retailer by
far. Lowe's, another U.S. retailer is no. 2, and our very own
Kingfisher (B&Q, Castorama, etc.) is no. 3. It won't have escaped
your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home Depot
right down to the meet and greet guy at the door.

There has long been an issue with pricing in the U.S. being lower than
in Europe on various goods.

Factors a

- Customer expectation
- Volume. the big Chinese manufacturing operations like Techtronics
(who make Ryobi and various private label stuff, can give much better
pricing to the buyers from HD for example.
- Exchange rate. Right now the pound is trading at $1.90, making
dollar priced goods appear cheaper.
- VAT. 15-25% in Europe. In the U.S., the closest equivalent, sales
tax is 0 - 8.5% or so.


I quite frequently buy tools in the U.S. and import them. There's a
few caveats:


- It's not worth it for low priced items because the shipping cost
becomes significant. Exception is if you make a trip, buy a lot of
stuff and bring it back with you. A £145 customs allowance for duty
and VAT helps as well. A £200 ticket to the East Coast can make this
an interesting exercise.

- Tools are 110v. This is not a problem for those with universal
motors (most hand power tools) - you can run them from a site
transformer - but probably is for anything with an induction motor
because these are often designed for 50Hz or 60Hz operation but not
both.

- Warranty. Probably not economic to return a low value tool - or
even a higher value one.

So I choose carefully. I only go for tools where I know that I can
get spares in Europe. This has to be watched, because sometimes there
are subtle differences in certain components to meet market
requirements or safety legislation. For example, you may notice that
the PC router has a toggle switch. That's not considered acceptable
in European safety requirements.

The grass can be greener, and there are some good things to be had, but
it is necessary to shop carefully.

Yuo've practically written another FAQ there.

Cost of land is the other factor.


NT

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:56:26 GMT, Phil L wrote:

It works like this; In America, they make products and sell them at the cost
of materials, plus all charges incurred in making them, plus a small amount
for the profit margin.
In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we think
we can get for them.

The UK is the motorway services of the world, where everything costs 3 times
as much as it does in the real world.

I don't know where you have got this experience from - or is it merely an
opinion? (Don't bother quoting single examples - there's a counter-
claim for everything.)

In fact, most cheap end goods in the US come from the same factories in
China and the rest of Asia that our goods come from. The difference is
that a shipment to the US may be 1000 units, with a single transport
charge and then _very_ cheap distribution within the 48 states. For a
european distro, they may only order 200 units, as the market is so much
smaller. These need to be supplied with half a dozen different mains
plugs, manuals in 10 different languages, tested to EU safety standards
and then sent out to stores all over the place - with diesel costs at
least twice what they are in the US.

There's a load more stuff, but I'm getting bored now.

Pete
--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:18:02 GMT someone who may be Peter Lynch
wrote this:-

In fact, most cheap end goods in the US come from the same factories in
China and the rest of Asia that our goods come from. The difference is
that a shipment to the US may be 1000 units, with a single transport
charge and then _very_ cheap distribution within the 48 states. For a
european distro, they may only order 200 units, as the market is so much
smaller.

Is it? The population of the USA is around 300 million, if we just
talk about the EU, instead of Europe, the population is around 500
million.

These need to be supplied with half a dozen different mains plugs,

Depending on the goods concerned one probably only needs to fit two
sorts of plug, the Europlug and the (far better) UK style plug.

Even if goods are not suitable for a Europlug then the cost of
fitting leads is a negligible part of the cost of production and
distribution. http://www.powercords.co.uk/standard.htm outlines the
various ones.

manuals in 10 different languages,

One needs to produce these anyway, to sell the product in China,
Saudi Arabia and so on. The cost is negligible.

tested to EU safety standards

Any goods need to be tested to a variety of standards, so one cannot
isolate the cost of one set of tests easily.

and then sent out to stores all over the place - with diesel costs at
least twice what they are in the US.

The cost of transport, even with the current fashion of long
distance, is a relatively small element of the cost of goods in the
shops.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-08-17 20:56:26 +0100, "Phil L" said:



It works like this; In America, they make products and sell them at
the cost of materials, plus all charges incurred in making them, plus
a small amount for the profit margin.
In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we
think we can get for them.

Err... no. There is the same lack of manufacturing industry in the
U.S. in the tools and machinery sector as there is here.

Operating on low margins, if one is manufacturing and taking the
development and service costs, only works if the volume is high enough
to amortise them.


The reason things are expensive here is many fold.

- 1/. We are congested and highly taxed. Doing anything involves a much
higher overhead of fuel costs and tax costs. We get this back in cheaper
healthcare and the like.

- 2/. Property - especially retail property - is vastly expensive. Due
to too many people chasing too few sites..

- 3/. We don't have a huge black population forced to work for next to
nothing by the sheer fact that if they don't, welfare will be withdrawn
and they will starve.

- 4/. We don't have a currency propped up by being tied to oil, and
manipulated by a monopolistic cartel of banks to keep it that way. and
worth about three times what it really ought to be.

I see that MFI is selling its retail branches to a private equity company.

I see that Dixons will undercut its own stores by 20% on direct internet
selling.

I see that I can buy a lightbulb for 30p online that costs me 75p in Tescos.

Sheds don't make money anymore, it seems.

On line niche market suppliers do however..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The reason things are expensive here is many fold.

Also land prices are high due to restrictive planning laws, and
building prices are higher due to overzealous BRs restricting
improvements and extensions, and preventing many people buying the
houses they wish for.

Legal minimum wage is 3x single person living cost for much of the
country, in some areas much more.

Assorted nannying rules and regulations make us less competitive again.
We are effectively legislating ourselves into a poorer future. Britain
just can not compete with other countries in so many areas now.

Welfare is paid to non-job seekers as well as job seekers. To reform
this would require the willingness to differentiate between job seeker
and non job seeker, and healthy and ill, and regrettably there is
little serious attempt to do either. This would need to be addressed
properly before those that just cant be arsed could be found jobs then
welfare stopped. The number of unemployables is higher due to education
failing to adress this area, plus minimum wage and restrictive labour
laws making a lot of people just not worth employing.

Compulsory education is aimed solely at creating employees, no serious
consideration is given to creating businesspeople and employers.

Part P is just one example of our malaise. But despite the downsides,
we still have it a lot better than many countries in the world.


NT

wrote:

Assorted nannying rules and regulations make us less competitive again.
We are effectively legislating ourselves into a poorer future. Britain
just can not compete with other countries in so many areas now.

That's because we're stupid, fat, Sun readers.

Compulsory education is aimed solely at creating employees, no serious
consideration is given to creating businesspeople and employers.

You don't need no education to teach you to be greedy. There's always
one in the playground buying and selling marbles. They grow up to be
barrow boys, and are eventually knighted (unless they're rude to the
royals of course).

Who needs education at all come to that? We just leave all the clever
stuff to the Chinese, go out and buy their products for next to nothing,
and sit on the sofa watching football. Luvverly!

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

Assorted nannying rules and regulations make us less competitive again.
We are effectively legislating ourselves into a poorer future. Britain
just can not compete with other countries in so many areas now.

That's because we're stupid, fat, Sun readers.

Compulsory education is aimed solely at creating employees, no serious
consideration is given to creating businesspeople and employers.

You don't need no education to teach you to be greedy. There's always
one in the playground buying and selling marbles. They grow up to be
barrow boys, and are eventually knighted (unless they're rude to the
royals of course).

Akshully Kompulsry edderkayshun is to make sure you have swallowed
enough crap to feel sufficiently superior to elect another nanny state.

No right minded employer would do more with a current degree in
soshollergy and meejah studdies than stick it in the works toilet for
arse wiping.



Who needs education at all come to that? We just leave all the clever
stuff to the Chinese, go out and buy their products for next to nothing,
and sit on the sofa watching football. Luvverly!


Indeed. Until they decide that they don't want your money cost its
worthless. And you haven't anything left to offer them that they DO want.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

Assorted nannying rules and regulations make us less competitive again.
We are effectively legislating ourselves into a poorer future. Britain
just can not compete with other countries in so many areas now.

That's because we're stupid, fat, Sun readers.

Compulsory education is aimed solely at creating employees, no serious
consideration is given to creating businesspeople and employers.

You don't need no education to teach you to be greedy. There's always
one in the playground buying and selling marbles. They grow up to be
barrow boys, and are eventually knighted (unless they're rude to the
royals of course).

Akshully Kompulsry edderkayshun is to make sure you have swallowed
enough crap to feel sufficiently superior to elect another nanny state.

No right minded employer would do more with a current degree in
soshollergy and meejah studdies than stick it in the works toilet for
arse wiping.



Who needs education at all come to that? We just leave all the clever
stuff to the Chinese, go out and buy their products for next to
nothing, and sit on the sofa watching football. Luvverly!


Indeed. Until they decide that they don't want your money cost its
worthless. And you haven't anything left to offer them that they DO want.


We can always sell their houses for them, or do their hair.