First off I have only ever wired a plug before so any advice you give
me will have to be REALLY simplified, sorry. Anyway...

I am trying to run an electric supply to my stone outbuilding. I have
bought a kit with all the armoured cable, RCD plug, waterproof socket,
junction boxes etc etc. The instructions are ok & I am following them
but I have a question...

Each end of the armoured cable has a junction box to connect it to
flexible cable. Does this have to be so? Can the armoured cable be
terminated directly at waterproof socket? Can the armoured cable go
straight into the RCD plug?

The placing of the socket inside the house means that (if possible)
this would be the easiest way- bypassing the whole junction box wiring
bit.

Thank you & apologies for my knowledge-free language LOL!!

The message . com
from "spiralpromo" contains these words:

I am trying to run an electric supply to my stone outbuilding. I have
bought a kit with all the armoured cable, RCD plug, waterproof socket,
junction boxes etc etc. The instructions are ok & I am following them
but I have a question...

This is where Part P has got us. Instead of a properly installed job
we're getting bodgekits to circumvent the rules.

NuLab never really got the hang of the law of unintended consequences.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:

The message . com
from "spiralpromo" contains these words:

I am trying to run an electric supply to my stone outbuilding. I have
bought a kit with all the armoured cable, RCD plug, waterproof socket,
junction boxes etc etc. The instructions are ok & I am following them
but I have a question...

This is where Part P has got us. Instead of a properly installed job
we're getting bodgekits to circumvent the rules.

NuLab never really got the hang of the law of unintended consequences.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Thank you for your help.

spiralpromo wrote:


Guy King wrote:

The message . com
from "spiralpromo" contains these words:

I am trying to run an electric supply to my stone outbuilding. I have
bought a kit with all the armoured cable, RCD plug, waterproof socket,
junction boxes etc etc. The instructions are ok & I am following them
but I have a question...

This is where Part P has got us. Instead of a properly installed job
we're getting bodgekits to circumvent the rules.

NuLab never really got the hang of the law of unintended consequences.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Thank you for your help.

Well, no. Guy's got a point. There are situations where exporting the house
earth half way down a garden might be considered dangerous. Your plug kit
makes it a bit too easy and you won't question such things, as you might if
you had to go to the trade shop and buy all the bits separately, because
you would either have read up in order to know what to buy or the trade
bloke may offer some advice. I'm not an engineer so I won't elaborate on
this further.

Please read this:

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/...s_outdoors.pdf

for a pretty decent guide to external power supply provision.

Personally, I'd say screw Part P and just learn how to do the job correctly
(start with the above).

Be aware there's a fine for that if you get caught in 6 months and you could
get sued if you kill someone and it might affect your house sale.

If you're not confident, get someone to inspect it. Coughing up 100 quid for
Part P may get you an inspection, or it may get you a council bod coming
round going "looks alright [tick]" (seen reports of this happening). Think
if it were me, I'd pay an electrician to PIR it, at least the inspection
will be done thoroughly, if not by the book of stupid rules.

Thing is, the biggest worry with external supplies are the earth (local TT
or export house earth???, the protection (RCD) and the bonding requirements
of the building (steel garage???)

Buying a kit with a plug makes the job technically legal, but does not
address those concerns properly IMO. Especially if someone chops the RCD
off when it breaks and sticks a normal plug on.

Cheers

Tim

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:48:03 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Buying a kit with a plug makes the job technically legal, but does not
address those concerns properly IMO. Especially if someone chops the
RCD off when it breaks and sticks a normal plug on.

Or changes it because it's always tripping... or in the case of my kit
doesn't bother to fit it in the first place.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:48:03 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Buying a kit with a plug makes the job technically legal, but does not
address those concerns properly IMO. Especially if someone chops the
RCD off when it breaks and sticks a normal plug on.

Or changes it because it's always tripping... or in the case of my kit
doesn't bother to fit it in the first place.


Indeed.

Talking of which, taking the whole thing logically further:

Simply install two 63A "commando" single phase sockets (with suitable
circuit protection) by the meter. Get this done by the book or pay a sparks
to do it. Or maybe one 3 phase 63A socket with suitable supply for
neatness...

Now you are free to plug your whole house in[1], thus making it an appliance
and exempt from Part P worries...

[1] Couple of CUs or one 3-phase board, with a flying plug etc...

Total bollox? Probably - but not very much different to these kits.
There's a marketing idea - the "whole house rewire kit" as sold in B&Q

Cheers

Tim

PS

Sorry - I can't claim credit for the above, someone thought of this last
year...

PPS - we are actually doing the 3-phase/63A socket thing at work, for
temporary computer room power when the submain distribution boards are
being worked on. There will indeed be a 3 phase plug feeding a temp
distribution board feeding a load of flying 32A single phase sockets. All
approved and being done by pros... Temporary in this case means 24-48 hours
mind...

I am sorry if I came across as a complete idiot with my opening post- I
have been doing lots of research about this before undertaking the
project. I am actually a PC hardware technician so do have some
understanding of circuits etc. I understand the reasons for Part P
legislation & do agree that it should be in place. I don't believe I
have done a 'bodge job', & I am glad there are people who are ready
with useful advice. There is no way I would have considered doing it if
I felt less than confident.

The 3-core PVC cable runs from the house socket (through an RCD plug)
to a waterproof junction box outside the house. Then armoured cable
then runs to a stone outbuilding next door (the 20m of cable is clipped
to the wall). The arnoured cable is terminated directly into a
waterproof socket inside the outbuilding. All the connections I made
were obvious & clear & done correctly.

I can't see why this would cause any problems, or (G forbid) death. I
assume someone can tell me where I have gone wrong????

PS It works great & we will see if the RCD trips (there is only a light
running from it)

Please read this.
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/...s_outdoors.pdf

for a pretty decent guide to external power supply provision.

Personally, I'd say screw Part P and just learn how to do the job correctly
(start with the above).

On 17 Jul 2006 04:59:07 -0700 someone who may be "spiralpromo"
wrote this:-

I am actually a PC hardware technician so do have some
understanding of circuits etc.

A search engine should pull up a posting that explains the
differences between electronics and "real world" electricity.

I'll add one thing to this. Twice someone of an electronic
background has asked me how many milliamps were drawn by something.
In one case the bit of equipment was connected the supply via cables
over centimetre in diameter, so I would have thought that even the
meanest intelligence would be able to work out that this was many
hundreds, if not several thousand, amps one hour rating. In the
other case the boffin was very surprised to discover that around
12,000A would flow, if someone connected the two wires together, in
the very short period before the HRC fuse did its job.

The 3-core PVC cable runs from the house socket (through an RCD plug)

Supplies to outbuildings are best done properly, ie not through a
plug and socket. That is why Mr Prescott's stupidities (in England
and Wales) are rightly treated with contempt by anyone other then
party politicians and officials.

Such a sub-main should be installed properly and the article you
have already been pointed to is a good starting point.

to a waterproof junction box outside the house. Then armoured cable
then runs to a stone outbuilding next door (the 20m of cable is clipped
to the wall).

20m of cable implies that the outbuilding is around that distance
from the house. I would certainly need to consider the situation
very carefully before exporting a house earthing system that sort of
distance to another building. 1/10 of that distance, even 1/4 of
that distance and it would be an easier decision.

I can't see why this would cause any problems, or (G forbid) death.

You need to understand, amongst other things, the limitations of
RCDs. The idea that one can bung such a gadget in and everything is
fine is promoted by their vendors, but that doesn't mean it is
correct.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The message .com
from "spiralpromo" contains these words:

I don't believe I
have done a 'bodge job', & I am glad there are people who are ready
with useful advice. There is no way I would have considered doing it if
I felt less than confident.

Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you, I was just highlighting the
unintented consequences of ill thought out legislation.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:37:41 +0100, Guy King wrote:

This is where Part P has got us. Instead of a properly installed job
we're getting bodgekits to circumvent the rules.

Yep, bought a kit comprising a "Powerbreaker" waterproof exterior socket
ready wired to a couple of meters of ordinary flex and a RCD plug.
Princely sum of £19.99 + VAT from Makro. The waterproof socket is very MK
like, plugged in cable seal is very soft squidgy rubber.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

spiralpromo wrote:

First off I have only ever wired a plug before so any advice you give
me will have to be REALLY simplified, sorry. Anyway...

I am trying to run an electric supply to my stone outbuilding. I have
bought a kit with all the armoured cable, RCD plug, waterproof socket,
junction boxes etc etc. The instructions are ok & I am following them
but I have a question...

Each end of the armoured cable has a junction box to connect it to
flexible cable. Does this have to be so? Can the armoured cable be
terminated directly at waterproof socket? Can the armoured cable go
straight into the RCD plug?

Depending on the design of socket you may be able to take it directly to
that, however you are unlikely to be able to take it directly to a plug
(the SWA will be way too big). SWA cable normally needs to terminate at
a gland that correctly clamps cable screen - this is particularly
important where the screen is being used as an earth connection (usually
with two core cable).

The placing of the socket inside the house means that (if possible)

Inside the house or the outbuilding?

If the socket will accept a 20mm SWA gland then you may be able to do it
that way, however it is hardly any more difficult to use the supplied
box is it?



--
Cheers,

John.

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