I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new
owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two
options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the
height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I
do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least
fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are
Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John

"John" wrote in message
...
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new
owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two
options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume
the
height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I
do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least
fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are
Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John



Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. That way they make sure that you are taking an
interest in your own security needs. I would also recommend an intruder
alarm and smoke detectors if not already installed.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume
the height of the 'innards,


The 2 1/2" and 3" measurements are the depth of the case (not the
height). These are fairly standard,

"Backset" is the distance from the edge of the door to the axis of
the doorknob. This is more important, if you're doing a refit. You can
adjust most of the heights by chiselling or filling, but you can't do
much about this. It's less standard than you'd like, especially for
deadbolts with no knob.

but how do I know how big the visible plate is.

A catalogue with dimensions:
http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk


Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc.

Your insurance company won't give a damn what type of lock it is, who
made it, or how effective it is. All they ever care about is the magic
sigil "BS 3621" marked on it somewhere.

You _can_ find non-mortice automatic rimlocks to BS3621 (handy for
front doors), so don't be fobbed off by insurance companies insisting
that all BS3621 locks are mortices.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc.

Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long
as the lock meets BS3621.

I would also recommend an intruder alarm

Not usually a particularly good investment.

and smoke detectors if not already installed.

And a very good one.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the
depth of the lock.

i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the
square bit that the handle fits too.

i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should beable to
replace like 4 like, no chieseling required.

By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important ) but as
others have said ensure you get the BS mark!


Jinx


"John" wrote in message
...
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new
owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two
options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume
the
height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I
do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least
fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are
Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:08:44 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Couple of things I missed:

The 2 1/2" and 3" measurements are the depth of the case (not the
height). These are fairly standard,

The reason why there are two sizes is (mainly) to cope with glass
doors with narrow frames. This is why it's the case _depth_ that's
significant, not something sensible like the backset.

You _can_ find non-mortice automatic rimlocks to BS3621 (handy for
front doors), so don't be fobbed off by insurance companies insisting
that all BS3621 locks are mortices.

Get the Yale one, not the Chubb. I've had both, hated the Chubb.

The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut
(usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate
on copies is high - I used to take as many faulty ones back as I could
actually use.

Chubb is insecure. The bolt is flat ended and held on a "trigger"
bolt. When you close the door, the trigger releases the main bolt. Now
this is fine, and how it stops the deadlock bolt being retracted by
wrong-uns. However if you slam the door, or close it very slowly, the
bolt may fire when it's not correctly aligned with the frame. The bolt
_wedges_ the door closed, but pushing the door allows it to be pushed
open !

The plastic interior handle falls off. It's made of unglueium.

Jinx wrote:
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to
the depth of the lock.

i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the
square bit that the handle fits too.

i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should
beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required.

By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important )
but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark!


Jinx


"John" wrote in message
...
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am
a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page
126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement
refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how
big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger
one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other
ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John

I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the
back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a
determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so
chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs
windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Terry D. (a born pessimist)

In article , Jinx
writes
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the
depth of the lock.
Yes

i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the
square bit that the handle fits too.
No, it's the case depth, the measurement from the front of the lock to the
back of the case. The dimension you describe is the backset.

Current chubbs are mm sized, key posn 40mm back from the door edge is
likely to be a 67mm (2 1/2") lock, 57mm backset suggests 80mm (3"
lock). I say likely 'cos they do a 3" lock with a 40mm backset too.

You make the backset/case size mistake once, travel 100mls to middle of
nowhere to fit the lock for aged relative, then you don't forget ;-)
--
fred

"Terry D" wrote in message
...
Jinx wrote:
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to
the depth of the lock.

i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the
square bit that the handle fits too.

i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should
beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required.

By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important )
but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark!


Jinx


"John" wrote in message
...
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am
a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page
126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement
refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how
big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger
one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other
ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John

I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom
the
back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a
determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so
chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all
downstairs
windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.

D

In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpam
SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk writes
I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom
the
back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a
determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so
chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all
downstairs
windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.
Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621
locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement.
I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required.
--
fred

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut
(usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate
on copies is high -

Isn't that a good feature? The idea of having a lock where the corner shop
can copy the key strikes me as rather daft...

I've got a Chubb nightlatch on the front door with glass panels which is
one of the few made which conforms to the appropriate BS, and it's been
great - it deadlocks from the inside. It replaces a similar principle Yale
which broke after a few years. Not cheap, though.

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:38:05 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut
(usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate
on copies is high -

Isn't that a good feature? The idea of having a lock where the corner shop
can copy the key strikes me as rather daft...

I don't mind the weirdness. But when I traipsed all the way across
town to the official Chubb place, and then their freshly cut key
didn't work either, then it got a bit annoying.

If you have a competent Ford garage, they can cut them too. If they
realise they can, and they keep the blanks in stock - but the cutting
machine is the same as needed for Fords of a few years ago.

I've got a Chubb nightlatch on the front door with glass panels which is
one of the few made which conforms to the appropriate BS,

This one ?
http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/..._Chubb_17.html

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:13:39 +0100, "Terry D"
wrote:

However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to).

AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC
front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've
seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for
such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder)

Comments, anyone ?

In article ,
Peter Parry writes:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc.

Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long
as the lock meets BS3621.

Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks
only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses
requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door.
However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy
before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all
the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with
the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want
the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
"David Hearn" writes:

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.

With the policies I've had, it was something which gets you a discount,
which as explained in another post, you probably don't want to take.
What you do have to watch is that when you first buy the insurance,
whoever is selling it doesn't just tick all the boxes on the form to
give you the lowest price quote, which isn't going to cover your real
situation. I've seen that happen several times. The best example was
a crash repair garage filling out the insurance form for a courtesy
car -- the woman just automatically ticked that you hadn't had an
accident in last 5 years. I tore it up and filled in a new one myself,
much to her protest as she'd been told to always tick that box. Stupid
thing was the price of this cover didn't seem to vary according to
what you filled in anyway.

The largest discount on house insurance was not for window locks, BS
door locks, alarms, etc, but was for being part of a neighbourhood watch
scheme. That should be a good indication of which of these the insurance
companies find most effective as a deterrant.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"fred" wrote in message ...
Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all
downstairs
windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these
requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc.
Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.

Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without
BS3621
locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement.
I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required.

What do your insurers require re. using the locks. Only when you go out, or
everytime the window is not actually open?


--
Martin

[remove barrier to reply]

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Peter Parry writes:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc.

Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long
as the lock meets BS3621.

Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks
only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses
requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door.
However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy
before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all
the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with
the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want
the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover.
Who are you with Andrew?

TIA
--
fred

fred wrote:
In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpam
SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk writes
I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom
the
back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a
determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so
chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all
downstairs
windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.
Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621
locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement.
I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required.

Another good reason for living 'out in the sticks', there are
certainly no such requirements on our house insurance policy.
As it is I regularly leave the front door key in the lock by mistake
overnight after I've put it in there to allow easy access in and out
during the day and no one has ever taken advantage yet.

--
Chris Green )

In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks
only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses
requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door.
However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy
before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all
the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with
the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want
the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover.
Who are you with Andrew?

Seems to be something called Rainbow Policy, by Legal and General.
It was arranged by my mortgage broker (bad idea), but I think that
isn't who it was originally with.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC
front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've
seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for
such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder)

I checked with the nationwide at the time I bought my house because I was
worried about this. My door has a metal skin that locking arrangement but
they did not have a problem with it and said the same for such "modern"
door/lock and it isn't in the policy documents (which look pretty standard
to me) as a requirement.

Obviously, this might not apply in every case so please check yourself -
phone call/letter to your insurer only takes a minute.

Andrew

AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC
front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've
seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for
such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder)

Comments, anyone ?

Interesting info. I wasn't aware that PVC-u doors aren't fitted with BS3621
locks. Personally, I hate PVC doors, especially white. I had hardwood
doors fitted instead, with BS3621 locks and deadbolts.

I repeat more or less what I said in an earlier posting - whatever
precautions you take, a professional thief can be in and out of your
property within 5 minutes, together with your most valuable possessions, so
make sure that you conform to your insurance company requirements for the
resulting claim. And remember that you're not allowed to shoot the thieves,
but I think they're allowed to shoot you if you offer resistance, and then
probably sue you for stress!

Terry D.

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:01:54 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:



AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC
front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've
seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for
such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder)

Comments, anyone ?

The insurance companies run a separate "approved lock" scheme for
multipoint locks which meet their security standard but can't meet
BS3621 for some reason related to the way the standard is written. I
had the correct name for it somewhere and I think its somewhere on
the Essex Fittings web site.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

wrote:
fred wrote:

In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpam
SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk writes

I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom

the

back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a
determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so
chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your
house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget
that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all

downstairs

windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.

Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements -
so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly
never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.

Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621
locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement.
I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required.


Another good reason for living 'out in the sticks', there are
certainly no such requirements on our house insurance policy.
As it is I regularly leave the front door key in the lock by mistake
overnight after I've put it in there to allow easy access in and out
during the day and no one has ever taken advantage yet.


There was an article on the times website about a young girl being
attacked in the night by a fox that had got into the house. Her parents
were in the the habit of leaving the door open on hot nights to let some
air into their house in LONDON!!! I'd have thought they were lucky it
was only a fox that walked in.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...804746,00.html

If you take the old locks to a locksmith (or DIY outlet) you should be able
to match them up with something there. If you don't fancy leaving your house
without any locks, trace the outline of the locks and the positions of the
holes onto a piece of paper.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a
new
owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two
options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume
the
height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is.
I
do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at
least
fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones
are
Chubb 5 Lever.

TIA

John



Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like
to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it,
eg,
Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. That way they make sure that you are taking an
interest in your own security needs. I would also recommend an intruder
alarm and smoke detectors if not already installed.


http://1867.com

In article ,
Ben wrote:
Her parents were in the the habit of leaving the door open on hot
nights to let some air into their house in LONDON!!! I'd have thought
they were lucky it was only a fox that walked in.

London is a big place. In some areas your front door would be stolen if
you left it open, in others it's no worse than anywhere else. I certainly
don't feel the need to sit up all night with a sawn-off shotgun. ;-(

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn