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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Washing machine drain
In order to save kitchen space, I was looking at fitting a washing
machine in an upstairs hall cupboard. The drain would have to run under the hall and across the bathroom in the suspended floor space. The joists run with the drain route, so no problem getting the drain under the floor. The water is pumped by the washing machine and using a clamp on non-return valve connector on the drain pipe I don't see any problems. Does the drain need a strong fall to it? Another point is that can the drain pipe be in a 'U' shape? The pipe drops from the washing machine, under the floor and then rises up and connects onto the 110mm WC pipe. Water will be trapped in this pipe. As the washing machine pumps water via a non-return valve I can't see this being an issue. This would make matters much easier. Any comments welcome. |
#2
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Washing machine drain
----- Original Message -----
From: Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:19 AM Subject: Washing machine drain In order to save kitchen space, I was looking at fitting a washing machine in an upstairs hall cupboard. The drain would have to run under the hall and across the bathroom in the suspended floor space. The joists run with the drain route, so no problem getting the drain under the floor. The water is pumped by the washing machine and using a clamp on non-return valve connector on the drain pipe I don't see any problems. Does the drain need a strong fall to it? Another point is that can the drain pipe be in a 'U' shape? The pipe drops from the washing machine, under the floor and then rises up and connects onto the 110mm WC pipe. Water will be trapped in this pipe. As the washing machine pumps water via a non-return valve I can't see this being an issue. This would make matters much easier. Any comments welcome. You don't need a 'strong fall' at all, although this would help if you are emptying out over a long distance, what you do need is a minimum height above the floor level of the machine to stop the water syphoning out mid-cycle. Usually the machine will have a red line or some sort of indicator at the back of the machine to show the minimum height required for the pipe. As long as it goes above this height for some part of the journey, preferably close to the machine, I don't see any problems. Ian Tilley |
#3
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Washing machine drain
AIUI the drainage pipe should have a u-bend trap and a 1 in 40 fall
over it's whole length. The underfloor bit sounds fine, the rises up and enters the soil pipe bit doesn't. The rises up bit sounds like there would be quite bit of water pooling there, where debris will collect and eventually block the pipe. The connection to the soil pipe may have the potential to allow sewage back into the washing machine drainage pipe. Check the building regs, they have things to say about distances and directions for drainage pipes connecting to soil pipes. |
#4
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Washing machine drain
In order to save kitchen space, I was looking at fitting a washing
machine in an upstairs hall cupboard. The drain would have to run under the hall and across the bathroom in the suspended floor space. The joists run with the drain route, so no problem getting the drain under the floor. The water is pumped by the washing machine and using a clamp on non-return valve connector on the drain pipe I don't see any problems. Does the drain need a strong fall to it? The pump of the washing machine isn't intended for long tortuous runs like this. It should empty into a trap near the machine. However, all is not lost. You can buy pumps which are intended for this purpose. The Saniflo range would not be suitable as they do not allow a vertical run at the end, only at the beginning. However, a Sanisplit K2 (different company) should do the trick. They're not cheap, though. The other alternative is to run by gravity to the base of the vertical run and then install a Sanivite at that point, rather than near to the washing machine. However, it won't be any cheaper and probably a whole lot less convenient. Christian. |
#5
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Washing machine drain
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:05:32 +0100 someone who may be "Christian
McArdle" wrote this:- The Saniflo range would not be suitable as they do not allow a vertical run at the end, only at the beginning. One can go from the 22mm Saniflo outlet pipe to a larger size near the vertical drop though. This will allow air in and thus not siphon the whole of the 22mm pipe. Using such a device may also allow other locations to be considered. While any added complication is best avoided if possible these pumps are useful in some situations and work happily for a long time if not abused. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#6
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Washing machine drain
One can go from the 22mm Saniflo outlet pipe to a larger size near
the vertical drop though. This will allow air in and thus not siphon the whole of the 22mm pipe. My understanding is that the pipe rises vertically at the end, rather than dropping. If it dropped, then it would probably be possible to design a gravity system. Christian. |
#7
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Washing machine drain
The message
from "Christian McArdle" contains these words: The pump of the washing machine isn't intended for long tortuous runs like this. It should empty into a trap near the machine. I've run several washing machines discharging via lengths of long pipe and never had any problems. The longest was about six meters of 32mm pipe just lying on the floor along behind some units, round a bend, behind more units and into a spigot on the sink outlet. Ran for years without trouble. The pumps are very simple, and worst comes to the worst, they're under a fiver off eBay. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#8
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Washing machine drain
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:13:23 +0100 someone who may be "Christian
McArdle" wrote this:- My understanding is that the pipe rises vertically at the end, rather than dropping. It isn't clear whether the plan is to install a pipe that rises at the end, or it already does. If it is just a plan then a vertical rise at the end certainly does not comply with the Saniflo instructions and thus would undoubtedly invalidate the warranty. However, I was thinking of changing the pipe design so that at the end it dropped onto the stack far enough away from the toilet connection. Of course with a Saniflo it might well be easier and better to go up from the first floor cupboard and through the loft (assuming a two storey house) to the stack. This would avoid a lot of difficult work under the floor and could all be done in 22mm pipe, assuming the length is suitable. It would probably be a matter of pulling a few bends in copper pipe and clipping it to suitable places. The stack connection would also be much easier. I would bond the pipe and it certainly should be insulated in the loft. Costing labour and disruption against the cost of the unit this might even be cheaper considered in the round. From memory only the Saniflo itself cannot pump vertically, the others in the range can pump up to something like 3m. I can't be bothered to look at the web site to check. If it dropped, then it would probably be possible to design a gravity system. Indeed. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#9
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Washing machine drain
If it is just a plan then a vertical rise at the end certainly
does not comply with the Saniflo instructions and thus would undoubtedly invalidate the warranty. Indeed. The Sanisplit, on the other hand doesn't have this restriction, which is why I would recommend it if this pipe routing was chosen. Of course with a Saniflo it might well be easier and better to go up from the first floor cupboard and through the loft (assuming a two storey house) to the stack. This would avoid a lot of difficult work under the floor and could all be done in 22mm pipe, assuming the length is suitable. Yes, that would probably be a preferable routing if feasible. Christian. |
#10
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Washing machine drain
Christian McArdle wrote: If it is just a plan then a vertical rise at the end certainly does not comply with the Saniflo instructions and thus would undoubtedly invalidate the warranty. Indeed. The Sanisplit, on the other hand doesn't have this restriction, which is why I would recommend it if this pipe routing was chosen. Of course with a Saniflo it might well be easier and better to go up from the first floor cupboard and through the loft (assuming a two storey house) to the stack. This would avoid a lot of difficult work under the floor and could all be done in 22mm pipe, assuming the length is suitable. Yes, that would probably be a preferable routing if feasible. Christian. Thanks to all. The length of the drain pipe from washing machine under the floor is about 15 foot, 5 metres. At a 1 in 40 fall (that is falling 1 cm for every 40 cm in length) that is a pipe fall of about 10cm. That will just be enough space in the floor. I can take the pipe out of the outside wall which opens up into the roof space of the brick lean-to kitchen. From this space I can then take the pipe outside via the side of the lean-to and down into a gully below. I can take the drain pipe across the floor, rise and connect onto the toilet 110mm elbow. It could rise 3 foot so no soil from the toilet can run into the washing machine drain. The Sanisplit pump should be capable of doing this. Can I tee into the soil stack just behind the toilet? I see no reason why not as long as the pipe rises above the WC pan preventing backflow. If this is not feasible because of obstructions, the Sanilav, which uses 22mm pipe can rise up and across the loft and connect onto the stack outside. It may be tricky getting the 22mm pipe out of the eves. Does it have to be copper pipe? Sanilav have a model that is about £210 for basins and showers. Would this do a washing machine and condensing dryer? I can't see why not. I "think" it has a 22mm discharge pipe. |
#11
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Washing machine drain
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#12
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Washing machine drain
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:04:56 +0100, Guy King
wrote: The message .com from contains these words: Another point is that can the drain pipe be in a 'U' shape? The pipe drops from the washing machine, under the floor and then rises up and connects onto the 110mm WC pipe. Water will be trapped in this pipe. Washing machine pipes are always full of water. I really think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. If you're in any doubt about whether the washing machine pump will cope, make a mock-up with a length of 32mm waste pipe laid on the floor and you'll see it'll cope no trouble. That's far too pragmatic... |
#13
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Washing machine drain
The message
from Pete C contains these words: That's far too pragmatic... Ah, sorry, I forgot this is uk.mountains-from-molehills! -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#14
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Washing machine drain
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message .com from contains these words: Another point is that can the drain pipe be in a 'U' shape? The pipe drops from the washing machine, under the floor and then rises up and connects onto the 110mm WC pipe. Water will be trapped in this pipe. Washing machine pipes are always full of water. I really think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. If you're in any doubt about whether the washing machine pump will cope, make a mock-up with a length of 32mm waste pipe laid on the floor and you'll see it'll cope no trouble. Most washing machine drain pipes I find that don't have a good fall, or are straight, end up being fully or partially blocked with gunge. The best is gravity of course, using slow bends where used. Using a Sanilav or Sanisplit pump is the last resort but should work well. Even the gravity fall pipe I would have accessible rodding points at every opportunity. One could be at the washing machine end under the floor of the cupboard the washing machine is to go. Have an easily removable trap. I would use solvent weld pipe and fittings. I would also occasionally use Mr Muscle drain unblocker down the drain pipe to burn away any gunge. If using 22mm pipe and a Sanilav pump I would also put rodding points in, or have compression joints in the loft to easily break the pipe and get a rod in. |
#15
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Washing machine drain
The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words: Most washing machine drain pipes I find that don't have a good fall, or are straight, end up being fully or partially blocked with gunge. All I can say is it's never happend to me on several long washing machine drains and two dishwasher drains - though they weren't so long, only about two meters. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
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