Hi all

To complete one phase of work and get flooring down etc., I want to re-join
the downstairs ring and create a separate feed to the kitchen.
Some time ago I moved the split in a split CU to give an extra RCD protected
breaker.
Due to certain sockets having been removed during building works, the start
and end of the local kitchen ring present with junction boxes.
So I wanted to run separate feeds from the CU to these and close up the
existing ring.

Because this wiring will, for the moment, go into the kitchen loft and not
enter the Kitchen "room", can it be argued that this is not a special
location? (I will leave these wires long to be pulled into appropriate
sockets when kitchen re-work is decided).
Ideally I would like to run the new feeds to the kitchen in new colour
cable, but then it will stand out as a job carried out after the
introduction of Part P.

So I guess what I'm looking for are some weasel words to convince the BCO
that it was OK to run the new feeds provided it didn't involve work in the
kitchen per se.
Then once they have approved the second fix etc. I can simply connect up to
the new circuit to the new feeds and strip out the old.
Sounds a lot of fag I know, but I really need to keep an operational kitchen
for as long as possible - so complete strip and re-wire at my pace of work
is really not an option.

Any assistance appreciated.

Phil

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...
Hi all

To complete one phase of work and get flooring down etc., I want to
re-join the downstairs ring and create a separate feed to the kitchen.
Some time ago I moved the split in a split CU to give an extra RCD
protected breaker.
Due to certain sockets having been removed during building works, the
start and end of the local kitchen ring present with junction boxes.
So I wanted to run separate feeds from the CU to these and close up the
existing ring.

Because this wiring will, for the moment, go into the kitchen loft and not
enter the Kitchen "room", can it be argued that this is not a special
location? (I will leave these wires long to be pulled into appropriate
sockets when kitchen re-work is decided).
Ideally I would like to run the new feeds to the kitchen in new colour
cable, but then it will stand out as a job carried out after the
introduction of Part P.

So I guess what I'm looking for are some weasel words to convince the BCO
that it was OK to run the new feeds provided it didn't involve work in the
kitchen per se.
Then once they have approved the second fix etc. I can simply connect up
to the new circuit to the new feeds and strip out the old.
Sounds a lot of fag I know, but I really need to keep an operational
kitchen for as long as possible - so complete strip and re-wire at my pace
of work is really not an option.

Wouldn't it be easier to just do the job in the the old colours?

There's plenty of old colour cable on ebay.

Rgds

Andy R

In article ,
TheScullster wrote:

Ideally I would like to run the new feeds to the kitchen in new colour
cable, but then it will stand out as a job carried out after the
introduction of Part P.

Well, due to a timing cockup it seems that new colour T&E was available
before Part P came into force - so no way of knowing it wasn't done in
the short period between (unless the cable is marked 2006 or something of
course )

Anyway, wouldn't connecting up a ring be Part P anyway? I guess it could
possibly be argued to be replacing an existing cable...

Darren

"Andy R" wrote

Wouldn't it be easier to just do the job in the the old colours?

There's plenty of old colour cable on ebay.


Thanks Andy

Unfortunately, due to the building works for kitchen renovation, the BCO are
already involved.
They have cited the electrics as an outstanding compliance issue for a
completion certificate to be awarded (as is now the case).
Don't have a problem with their inspection of the kitchen works, but need to
close off the original ring and lay on separate kitchen feed so I can
re-build the rest of the house in the meantime.

Phil

"dmc" wrote

Well, due to a timing cockup it seems that new colour T&E was available
before Part P came into force - so no way of knowing it wasn't done in
the short period between (unless the cable is marked 2006 or something of
course )


All the new cable I have seen has been date stamped unfortunately.

Phil

TheScullster wrote:

Unfortunately, due to the building works for kitchen renovation, the BCO are
already involved.

They have cited the electrics as an outstanding compliance issue for a
completion certificate to be awarded (as is now the case).


There's 3 issues he

1. How to make the connection in accordance with IEE regs

2. Who can do the work

3. Inspection of the finished electrics


1. If you have any doubts on this, would suggest you post on that topic
explicitly

2. Anyone can do the work in or out of the kitchen.

If you are *NOT* a member of a Part P scheme (or if you are, *AND* it
is your own home) you must pre-notify LA Building Control of building
work commencement. Either by building notice or laying of full plans.
As you say the BCO is involved, you must have taken that step a while
ago. So proceed with the work.

The LA cannot charge any further supplementary fees after it has
accepted the building notice.

A part P member can undertake the work for you if you wish, but this
will cost you more as he has to pay fees to his part P organization and
there is no reduction in fees you have already paid to the LA. Note
very well Part P membership is *NOT* a licence or permit to a member to
inspect or approve your work. It only permits the member to undertake
the work *HIMSELF* personally without prenotifying the LA.

3. It is up to the LA BCO to inspect your work as he thinks fit. It is
not up to you to provide any electrical certificate. However if you do
provide suitable documantation & show evidence that you know what you
are doing and did the job properly that may be all that is required.
Again no further fee can be charged.

Rules are fairly clear in the new Part P approved doc (April 2006)
paragraphs 1.18 to 1.29 on pages 11 & 12.

full doc is at http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1164183

++++
also, extract from ODPM Circular 8/2004:

Local authority charges for Part P work
Local authorities should ensure that charges for checking full plans
applications or building notices and carrying out inspections of
building work, including that relating to Part P, are pre-fixed in
their charges scheme as required by the Building (Local Authority
Charges) Regulations 1998. Authorities do not have powers to reassess a
fixed charge, which they have levied for a particular application or
notice, during the course of the work.
++++

HTH

"jim_in_sussex" wrote


There's 3 issues he

1. How to make the connection in accordance with IEE regs

2. Who can do the work

3. Inspection of the finished electrics


1. If you have any doubts on this, would suggest you post on that topic
explicitly

snip...............

Jim

Thanks for comprehensive and informative response.

Phil

TheScullster wrote:
"jim_in_sussex" wrote


There's 3 issues he

/snip/


Thanks for comprehensive and informative response.

You're welcome.

It might also help you to check out the draft document for the Part P
4/06 amendment. This is a wee bit more discursive and readable and
goes into more detail of your rights and scope as a diy-er (or indeed a
commercial but non-Part P member electrician).

The final version got legalised. The draft was on the (former)ODPM web
site. If it has gone, I have a copy somewhere deep in this machine -
please post & I'll see what I can find. Could email or post relevant
extracts, but the whole is too long for email.

One point it makes very strongly is that it is *NOT* possible for the
LA BCO to employ someone else to issue a BS7671 cert for your work.
Only you as the installer could do that. If you feel unqualified by
paper certificate or experience to do that it is up to the BCO to
satisfy himself otherwise that the installation is up to standard.
Read the draft for more explanation & background as to why. Although
those explanations got condensed or chopped for the final, they still
hold good.

3. It is up to the LA BCO to inspect your work as he thinks fit. It is
not up to you to provide any electrical certificate. However if you do
provide suitable documantation & show evidence that you know what you
are doing and did the job properly that may be all that is required.

Indeed, my BCO says he will accept my certificate. He did physically inspect
the wiring runs before the plasterboard went up, but didn't seem too fussed
about doing any electrical testing.

I've just got my equipment back from the calibrators, so I should really get
down to it.

Christian.