They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.
It appeared to be stretched over the loft rafters leaving 50mm-ish gap
behind, Then battens (38mm looked like) nailed through it onto the
rafters, and plasterboard over the battens. Thus leaving suitable air
gaps etc, but where it's squashed by the battens the insulation must be
poor.
But you get a much thinner roof than with celotex. Seeing a neighbours
loft conversion where you could hardly stand up a while ago, made me
think.
And what about using it in normal roofs. If it's evquivalant to 75mm
celotex, my extension roof design could be a lot thinner.
Is this stuff proven, and would the BCO pass it ?
Simon.

In article .com
, sm_jamieson writes
They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.
It appeared to be stretched over the loft rafters leaving 50mm-ish gap
behind, Then battens (38mm looked like) nailed through it onto the
rafters, and plasterboard over the battens. Thus leaving suitable air
gaps etc, but where it's squashed by the battens the insulation must be
poor.
But you get a much thinner roof than with celotex. Seeing a neighbours
loft conversion where you could hardly stand up a while ago, made me
think.
And what about using it in normal roofs. If it's evquivalant to 75mm
celotex, my extension roof design could be a lot thinner.
Is this stuff proven, and would the BCO pass it ?

IMNSHO the chances of this stuff meeting the insulation level of 75mm
Celotex in a real life situation is some where between zero and a a very
small thing.

Even if you believe the spiel, you need static air in the (uniform) gaps to
meet the claims so if you vent the outer air space, next to the roof, as you
should then there is no chance whatsoever of meeting the claimed
performance.

I have seen it used and passed by a BCO but that's not to say it is a
performance insulation system. If you want it effective use Celotex, if you
just want a box ticked then use whatever you can get away with.

HTH
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.

Although sceptical for the same reasons, there are some genuine reasons why
it might be superior. The main one is that celotex leaves uneven gaps where
it is wedged between rafters, leading to draughts within the insulation
which reduces its actual effectiveness. Tri-iso Super 9 is rolled on in a
single sheet, so there can be no gaps for draughts to develop.

I'll know if the stuff works properly soon. My not yet finished loft
conversion has it. I will say that in February, the room became the warmest
in the house, despite not having installed the heating in it and having
hardboard for one window and roofing felt for another. Previously, the roof
had about 25mm of expanded polystyrene behind hardboard and was slightly
cold, but not excessively so.

There is a new version out called Tri-iso Super 10. This has been
independently tested to confirm that it provides the equivalent of 210mm of
glass fibre wool in actual installed conditions. I don't know if similar
testing was carried out on the Super 9, but they claim 200mm equivalence. It
has a similar construction, but the Super 9 is nominally 25mm thick, rather
than the 30mm of Super 10.

Christian.

I don't know if similar testing was carried out on the Super 9, but
they claim 200mm equivalence.

Actually, it appears that they did.

http://www.enigma-insulations.co.uk/pdf/response.pdf

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
I don't know if similar testing was carried out on the Super 9, but
they claim 200mm equivalence.

Actually, it appears that they did.

http://www.enigma-insulations.co.uk/pdf/response.pdf

Christian.

It's where it is squashed between battens and the rafters that I am
especially sceptical, and if that does not work, there is quite a bit
of cold bridging.
Simon.

It's where it is squashed between battens and the rafters that I am
especially sceptical, and if that does not work, there is quite a bit
of cold bridging.

It works a lot better for cold bridging than celotex only between rafters,
which is a very common method.

Obviously, the Super 9 will be a lot worse performing in those areas than in
free areas. However, they won't be too bad. Remember also, that these
bridging spots are just that, spots. They aren't entire lines, as the
battening runs perpendicular to the rafters and the bridging spots only
occur where they cross. The lines from the joist and battens will be
slightly compressed on one side, but will reach the majority of their full
performance.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

I'll know if the stuff works properly soon. My not yet finished loft
conversion has it. I will say that in February, the room became the warmest
in the house, despite not having installed the heating in it and having
hardboard for one window and roofing felt for another. Previously, the roof
had about 25mm of expanded polystyrene behind hardboard and was slightly
cold, but not excessively so.

To jump on the thread...

I am on the verge of getting the entire loft insulated, but the dilemma
is that I want to use the loft space for PC equipment, a server or 2 and
other things, so....
If I were to use this iso-10 stuff rolled over the rafters presumably I
would have significant benefit from heat reduction in the loft during
summer, but would the insulation in the living areas below be compromised?

What I mean is, would having the roof insulated rather than the ceiling
require a greater heat input to warm the room below or shouldn't the
difference be significant (once the loft achieved an elevated temp)

The whole of the living area below is heated by UFH (4 zones)

Oh, and..... :¬)

The living area gets extremely hot in the summer as it has a fairly high
glass area and gets masses of reflected light from the Estuary as well
as direct sun, so theoretically would insulating the rafters rather than
the ceiling make the loft hotter as more heat would get through the
ceiling? I suppose Insulation of rafters AND ceiling would cover both
concerns but seems excessive.

Sorry to burden you with my ponderings, but I have been head scratching
for a long while trying to work this one out.

Cheers
Pete


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On 18 May 2006 02:42:15 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named
"sm_jamieson" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.

Is this stuff proven,

The jury's still out on that one. The company claim (or used to
claim) that the test rig with Tri-Iso Super 9 they set up in the south
of France used no more energy to heat than one with 200mm Rockwool.
The rumour is that the test was carried out in the middle of the
summer, so the test was meaningless. The certificate for this
material was withdrawn in February.

and would the BCO pass it ?

The certificate for Tri-Iso Super 10
(http://www.tri-isosuper10.co.uk/) appears to be a bit more explicit,
and as it's been issued by TRADA, it should be accepted by Building
Control.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On 18 May 2006 02:42:15 -0700, "sm_jamieson"
wrote:

They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.
It appeared to be stretched over the loft rafters leaving 50mm-ish gap
behind, Then battens (38mm looked like) nailed through it onto the
rafters, and plasterboard over the battens. Thus leaving suitable air
gaps etc, but where it's squashed by the battens the insulation must be
poor.
But you get a much thinner roof than with celotex. Seeing a neighbours
loft conversion where you could hardly stand up a while ago, made me
think.
And what about using it in normal roofs. If it's evquivalant to 75mm
celotex, my extension roof design could be a lot thinner.
Is this stuff proven, and would the BCO pass it ?
Simon.

Hi,

Long discussion of it he

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?DATEIN=tpc_wlpssdlpg_1142805843

Looking at p21(!) it appears the super 10 stuff has a TRADA cert for
roof construction, so that /should/ keep BCO happy, though it would be
well worth asking.

cheers,
Pete.

In article , Hugo
Nebula abuse@localhost.? writes
On 18 May 2006 02:42:15 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named
"sm_jamieson" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

They used ISO super 9 style foil/fleece insulation in a loft conversion
on DIY SOS last week.

Is this stuff proven,

The jury's still out on that one. The company claim (or used to
claim) that the test rig with Tri-Iso Super 9 they set up in the south
of France used no more energy to heat than one with 200mm Rockwool.
The rumour is that the test was carried out in the middle of the
summer, so the test was meaningless. The certificate for this
material was withdrawn in February.

and would the BCO pass it ?

The certificate for Tri-Iso Super 10
(http://www.tri-isosuper10.co.uk/) appears to be a bit more explicit,
and as it's been issued by TRADA, it should be accepted by Building
Control.

A very carefully formed response :-)

My concern is that the average punter puts this stuff in without really
understanding the constraints that (may) enable it to achieve its quoted
spec, particularly without understanding what air movement can do to their
claims. The difference with Celotex et al is that you can achieve the
specified results with the minimum of fuss, a tight fit with gaps sealed is all
that should be required.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

The living area gets extremely hot in the summer as it has a fairly high
glass area and gets masses of reflected light from the Estuary as well
as direct sun, so theoretically would insulating the rafters rather than
the ceiling make the loft hotter as more heat would get through the
ceiling?

Tri-iso insulation works in a different way to conventional insulation. In
practice, it means that it has some strengths and weaknesses in comparison.
One of its strengths is reflecting solar gain from the roof, which can be a
significant contribution to summer overheating.

Christian.