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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat,
which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Thank you. |
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#2
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OT Renting Out a Flat
I rent out two properties so I have some experience that may help.
wrote in message oups.com... Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat, which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). Both of my properties are unfurnished lettings, As far as I know if it is furnished all the materials in chairs, sofas, beds, etc have to be fire retardent and you have to be able to prove it. If it is let furnished you can claim 10% of the yearly rental as a tax allowance for wear & tear. Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. Both of my tenants pay their own council tax, I do not have any service charges. If they do not pay it is their problem not yours. Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Possibly look, as you say, at having them managed. An agent (up here Leeds) will typically take 10% of the rent plus VAT, For that they would fully manage the property and pay you every month the rent less their 'cut'. They would also arrange any repairs etc. with plumbers,builders etc. but should speak to you first so you aware of any costs involved. As far as the tenant is concerned you do not exist if you like, you could be sat next to them in the pub and they wouldn't know, effectively the agent is the landlord. I do not use an agent as I like to be in control of the spending and materials used, also why give an agent 10% + VAT for something I can easily do myself. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? I would recommend having it drawn up proffesionally, although that was easy (and free) for me, my wife is a solicitor! Another thing to take into account is you need to have a Landlords Gas Safety Check done on all gas appliances in the property. This is a legal requirement and is compulsary. HTH John |
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#4
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OT Renting Out a Flat
wrote in message oups.com... Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat, which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Thank you. The tenant has to pay the council tax. Whether you include all the other charges in the rent is up to you, but it would be foolish not have them pay the gas and electricity as they would leave it on 24/7 if in the rental charge. You need a CORGI landlords certificate once a year. You need a mains connected smoke alarm. Look at 6 months shorthold tenancy contracts, which is the standard official contract most use. Take references and guarantors and "check them out". Take a deposit. Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. The above is all from knowing people who have had serious problems with tenants. A good pay on time tenant is a rare thing. |
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#5
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Thats what a £200 deposit is for and as far as I'm concerned if no occupant is paying the rent after one month they're out on their arse. -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
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#6
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... wrote in message oups.com... You need a mains connected smoke alarm. Not quite true. I'm a first-time landlord (my mam died and I inherited her house) and from reading the "Landlords Information Pack" that I got from our local council, and also advice from the letting agency we're using, there is *no legal requirement* to fit *any* smoke alarms whatsoever. We *have* fitted mains alarms because we just thought it was commonsense and the right thing to do, but we didn't *legally* need to - unless it's an HMO (house in multiple occupancy - which ours isn't). John. |
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#7
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On 21 Mar 2006 02:06:12 -0800 wrote :
Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. You are responsible for the service charge. Council Tax is the responsibility of the tenant: make sure you write to the Council telling them the tenant's name and when they move in so that they don't come after you if it's not paid. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Agencies tend to take a lot of money for not doing a lot (their so-called vetting is not always very reliable). Having said that, the last time we let a flat we advertised in the local paper and Loot and got no response so ended up with an agent - possibly it's the case that would-be tenants just prefer the easy life so go to an agent who offers them a list with full details. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
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#8
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:10:13 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Friends parents rented bedsits and they would only take employed males. Apparently females were more likely to do a runner without paying or cause damage. sponix |
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#9
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message . uk... Doctor Drivel wrote: Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Thats what a £200 deposit is for and as far as I'm concerned if no occupant is paying the rent after one month they're out on their arse. Thats tosh, a "200 deposit wouldn't, presumably, even cover one months rent. I was adviced to make my bonds £100 more than the monthly rent, so you were covered for at least some inconvenience etc if the tenant 'did a flit'. It is not as easy as you suggest to get a sitting tenant out of the house. So far, touch wood, I have not had any problems in the 5 years I have been renting out but you cannot just sling out a non paying tenant. You need to go through the correct procedures or you can find yourself in hot water! To the OP go have a look at http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/ and click on the 'Forum' link at the top left and maybe post a question in there. The people that frequent that site are mainly landlords etc. and are very knowledgeable and helpful with it. HTH John |
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#10
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OT Renting Out a Flat
John wrote:
Possibly look, as you say, at having them managed. An agent (up here Leeds) will typically take 10% of the rent plus VAT, For that they would fully manage the property and pay you every month the rent less their 'cut'. They would also arrange any repairs etc. with plumbers,builders etc. but should speak to you first so you aware of any costs involved. As far as the tenant is concerned you do not exist if you like, you could be sat next to them in the pub and they wouldn't know, effectively the agent is the landlord. I do not use an agent as I like to be in control of the spending and materials used, also why give an agent 10% + VAT for something I can easily do myself. Check out 3rd party review of the agent if you do this. Ask for references that you can verify both from landlords and tenants. I'm a tenant, and the agent is supposedly managing the property. Bloody useless they are too. They manage the annual gas check and collecting the money. Heating failures I've had to deal with myself in winter, with a baby and bill the landlord when he returned ("nothing to do with us"). Most other faults I pass directly to the landlord. Tim |
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#11
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OT Renting Out a Flat
wrote:
A very large % is still mortgaged and there is also other debt secured against the property. I'm sure if I sold there wouln't be enough to pay off everything. If this is really the case, then you need to take a really good look at your finances - they're in a mess. Sponix's advice is spot on - how would you cope if interest rates increased by 1.5-2%? They will. What about if your rental income dropped? Your house will not be worth what it is now in two years time. If you don't believe that, go he http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical.htm Use the second dropdown to select UK House Prices Adjusted for Inflation, and study the graph. Stare at it for a while, and try to convince yourself that we're not at the top of a peak. -- Grunff |
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#12
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message . uk... Doctor Drivel wrote: Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Thats what a £200 deposit is for One month deposit. and as far as I'm concerned if no occupant is paying the rent after one month they're out on their arse. Are they? The law says otherwise. You have no right whatsoever to enter the flat. The flat is lawfully theirs until they vacate or the contract ends. If you do enter the police will prosecute you. The police can't even enter. They don't need to allow the CORGI engineer in either. If their is an explosion then they are prosecuted not the landlord. You can only take legal action when rent is 2 months behind. So, a tenant can be a month behind for ever until you give notice to quit, which is 2 months notice. They can pay a deposit and one months rent in advance and do nothing. You can take legal action for possession when rent is 2 months behind, then can ignore it. You can turn up to their door and they can call the police citing harassment, and the police will remove or prosecute you. The legal action then goes to court and they sit in your flat paying nothing. The court awards you possession and the rent and legal fees due. This all takes time. They ignore it all. Then you arrange for the "court" bailiffs to break into the flat and give you possession. More time. They are given notice of the bailiffs date of arrival. They can vacate the flat on the previous day and just walk straight out. They can call the police if they think their is going to be a breach of the peace by the landlord. The police allows them out in safety and will prosecute the landlord if their is any harassment or assault or abuse. In short the police aid and abet a fraudster. All this may be 9 months and they paid two months rent in total. While they are ripping you off, you cannot cut off any services whatsoever. You must also attend to any problems of maintenance. If you do not they can pay to have the maintenance done and charge you. After the bailiffs come you have your flat back and have lost a wedge in rent, legal and bailiff fees. They legally owe you all this. Then you have to trace them to collect. More money. Always take their employers name and address, if two of them then both, then the legal people can get the money directly off them via the employer (I think I am right on this point). Always take a guarantor and check them out and that they exist. Many landlords start off honest people and after a while resort to heavies to counter the fraudsters and bad tenants. I know friend you had all this done to him. He now does all the checks thoroughly and very assertive when rent is not paid on time. Always send a demand letter when not paid on time, as this stacks in the landlords favour in court. If their are serious problems he get a firm in, who employ heavies, who will deal with any problems. On speaking a policeman friend, the copper said if it happened to him, he would get burglars he knows to strip the place out when they are at work (can be done in 15 mins), then change the locks and securely board up the doors and windows with padlocks. When they come back, they will call the police, the landlord says I had wind that they had flitted and move in and secured the property, I now have possession. If they say otherwise then the lanmdlord can say they trying it on and ignore the lot. I'm not sure if in law the policeman is right on the last point. |
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#13
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OT Renting Out a Flat
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#14
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Tony Bryer" wrote in message ... On 21 Mar 2006 02:06:12 -0800 wrote : Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. You are responsible for the service charge. Council Tax is the responsibility of the tenant: make sure you write to the Council telling them the tenant's name and when they move in so that they don't come after you if it's not paid. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Agencies tend to take a lot of money for not doing a lot (their so-called vetting is not always very reliable). I believe Which do a good book on letting and have the contracts in. It is also full of advice for both sides. Never read it so don't know if it is all that good. |
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#15
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OT Renting Out a Flat
John wrote:
Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Possibly look, as you say, at having them managed. An agent (up here Leeds) will typically take 10% of the rent plus VAT, For that they would fully manage the property and pay you every month the rent less their 'cut'. They would also arrange any repairs etc. with plumbers,builders etc. but should speak to you first so you aware of any costs involved. I'd be *very* surprised if you find an agent who will do all that (at least not in reality). Another thing to take into account is you need to have a Landlords Gas Safety Check done on all gas appliances in the property. This is a legal requirement and is compulsary. Yes! -- Chris Green |
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#16
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OT Renting Out a Flat
In message 441fef9d.0@entanet, at 12:20:45 on Tue, 21 Mar 2006,
remarked: For that they would fully manage the property and pay you every month the rent less their 'cut'. They would also arrange any repairs etc. with plumbers,builders etc. but should speak to you first so you aware of any costs involved. I'd be *very* surprised if you find an agent who will do all that (at least not in reality). Yep, all they'll do (from the tenants perspective) is delay things for three weeks while trying to locate the landlord to get his permission to spend any money, then send a tame odd-job man round to bodge the repair. -- Roland Perry |
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#17
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OT Renting Out a Flat
wrote in message oups.com... Sponix wrote: On 21 Mar 2006 02:06:12 -0800, wrote: Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat, which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). snip A very large % is still mortgaged and there is also other debt secured against the property. I'm sure if I sold there wouln't be enough to pay off everything. What do your mortgage providers and others who have charges on your property say about the idea? They may not be too delighted at the prospect - as others have pointed out, rental values and sale values of flats could decrease, particularly in view of the huge number of unsold conversions that will soon be looking for occupiers in many areas. Lenders (quite reasonably) want to be sure they'd get their money back, even if they were selling in difficult circumstances (repossession, difficult tenant, trashed internally), so at very least they'd probably want to move you to one of their "buy to let" mortgages, at a higher interest rate. -- Kevin Poole **Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )*** Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby |
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#18
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Autolycus wrote:
What do your mortgage providers and others who have charges on your property say about the idea? There may also be restrictions on letting in the lease/commonhold agreement... Lee -- Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read. |
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#19
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On 21 Mar 2006 12:20:45 GMT wrote :
They would also arrange any repairs etc. with plumbers,builders etc. but should speak to you first so you aware of any costs involved. I'd be *very* surprised if you find an agent who will do all that (at least not in reality). It's a long time ago now, but my sister worked for a managing agents who did all this. Of course they added 10% (or whatever) to the repair costs so didn't feel too constrained to keep costs down. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
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#20
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:17:32 -0000 Doctor Drivel wrote :
One month deposit. Best advice now seems to be not to take exactly one month's rent as the tenant is likely to not pay the last month's rent leaving you with no deposit. The comments about the legal hassles of getting rid of a bad tenant are spot on. We had one who stopped paying. We passed it over to our solicitor who managed to give them two months + 1 day notice. The tenant, no doubt advised by CAB, pointed out that the notice had to expire on a rent day so was invalid - this of course was at the court hearing six weeks after the first notice had come into effect (or not as it turned out). So start all over again, two months, six weeks, possession order .... eventually she moved. One false move and you're nailed for harrassment. Our family business has been in letting since I was a kid and 90%+ of tenants are nice decent honest people. The problem, if you have just one property, is that if you have a bad tenant you have 100% bad! -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
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#21
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Tony Bryer" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:17:32 -0000 Doctor Drivel wrote : One month deposit. Best advice now seems to be not to take exactly one month's rent as the tenant is likely to not pay the last month's rent leaving you with no deposit. The comments about the legal hassles of getting rid of a bad tenant are spot on. We had one who stopped paying. We passed it over to our solicitor who managed to give them two months + 1 day notice. The tenant, no doubt advised by CAB, pointed out that the notice had to expire on a rent day so was invalid - this of course was at the court hearing six weeks after the first notice had come into effect (or not as it turned out). So start all over again, two months, six weeks, possession order .... eventually she moved. Did the court give you costs and did you pursue it from her. |
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#22
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:28:22 -0000 Doctor Drivel wrote :
Did the court give you costs and did you pursue it from her. No, we'd probably have got £5 per month and never seen that. When it comes to bad tenants it's all too easy to throw good money after bad. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
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#23
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net... "The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message . uk... Doctor Drivel wrote: Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Thats what a £200 deposit is for One month deposit. Month and a half seems to be becoming the norm, even. |
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#24
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Autolycus" wrote in message
... wrote in message oups.com... A very large % is still mortgaged and there is also other debt secured against the property. I'm sure if I sold there wouln't be enough to pay off everything. What do your mortgage providers and others who have charges on your property say about the idea? They may not be too delighted at the prospect - as others have pointed out, rental values and sale values of flats could decrease, particularly in view of the huge number of unsold conversions that will soon be looking for occupiers in many areas. Lenders (quite reasonably) want to be sure they'd get their money back, even if they were selling in difficult circumstances (repossession, difficult tenant, trashed internally), so at very least they'd probably want to move you to one of their "buy to let" mortgages, at a higher interest rate. When I moved south, I rented out my house in Scotland. My mortgage was with the Woolwich spit and for a small(!) fee of £100, I was allowed to rent the property out for a period of up to 2 years on that mortgage agreement. Any longer would've meant having to re-negotiate the mortgage terms ie buy to let etc. I used a letting agent, given I was nearly 400 miles from mine. They charged 12.5% per month for the privilege. The tenants were responsible for the rent, council tax and all the domestic bills. I had the same tenants for the 18 months or so and it wasn't a bad experience, although I'd probably not do it again. The rent just covered and no more. In my present house, I would not be able to recoup my mortgage payments in rent (down south prices now, see). |
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#26
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In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes wrote in message roups.com... Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat, which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Thank you. The tenant has to pay the council tax. Whether you include all the other charges in the rent is up to you, but it would be foolish not have them pay the gas and electricity as they would leave it on 24/7 if in the rental charge. You need a CORGI landlords certificate once a year. You need a mains connected smoke alarm. Look at 6 months shorthold tenancy contracts, which is the standard official contract most use. Take references and guarantors and "check them out". Take a deposit. Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Makes no difference even if you can trace them... if they've got no money, you get no money or.. If they've got money, they will plead poverty and a judge will let them pay £10 per month. They will pay it for a few months, then stop... and you have to go to court again. The above is all from knowing people who have had serious problems with tenants. A good pay on time tenant is a rare thing. -- Richard Faulkner |
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#27
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Due to a change in circumstances I am considering renting out my flat, which is in a purpose built block in a good rental area. I have to pay a quarterly service charge, council tax, etc and it would be rented furnished (unless there's a good reason to rent it unfurnished). Furnished vs unfurnished is a difficult one. There tends to be not a lot of difference in rent; worth asking local agents which has most demand locally. If you leave it furnished, you need to be sure all the furniture comes up to legal standard as regards smoke inhalation in a fire; the tenants may trash it (although you can offset vs rent income); tenants may not stay as long because moving out is far less upheaval. If you let unfurnished, presumably you'll have to sell or stire your furniture. Regarding things like service charge & council tax. Is the tennant responsible for paying them or should I build them in to the rental price and pay them myself? I'm concerned about what would happen if the tennants didn't pay. Definitely have the tenant pay the council tax - you let the council know when they move in, then if they don't pay up it's nothing to do with you (although this is likely to change). Same thing applies to all the utility bills; if you give them the meter readings and tell them when the tenant moves in and out, you have no liability at all if the tenant does a bunk without paying. I don't know how your service charge works - is it significant, and would the freeholder chase you for it if the tenant didn't pay them? Presumably so - in which case I think I'd just build it in to the rent. Obviously I would like reliable, hassle-free tennants and for everything to work well in the flat so I would have as little involvement as possible. I wouldn't have much time to work on repairs, chase late rent, etc. Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? Sounds like you definitely need an agent to manage the place then, although it's very expensive for what they do. No need to involve lawyers, the agent will set up an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement when the take on the tenant - that's one thing they do actually have to do for their fee! (Don't even *think* of doing it on a handshake...) You need a mains connected smoke alarm. An excellent idea, true, but not actually compulsory unless the property was built recently (ie, since building regulations insisted upon these being fitted). Look at 6 months shorthold tenancy contracts, which is the standard official contract most use. Take references and guarantors and "check them out". Take a deposit. Don't have students, especially foreign students. Take British people rather than foreigners as foreigners can just flit off abroad owing 1000s, while British people are traceable. Agree with all that, but if you use an agent, they will find the tenant for you and *should* do all the above! If you're a first-timer, you'd be well-recommended to leave sourcing the tenant to an agent. Most important is that you vet the agent you choose - check their T&Cs and fees very carefully, and make sure you use one who's a member of the trade organisation ARLA or equivalent. Be assured that there are plenty of really naff agents out there. One good example of how agents stiff a wet-behind-the-ears landlord (and yes, I was he!) is to set up a 6-month AST, for which they will charge the landlord and tenant handsomely, and then in 6 months time, and every 6 months thereafter, will charge again for 'renewal' fees. Whereas, it's completely unecessary to renew an AST - after the initial period has expired, it legally defaults indefinitely to a 'periodic' tenancy, which retains all the T&Cs of the original tenancy agreement, with the landlord having to give the tenant 2 months notice to quit, and the tenant giving the landlord 1 months notice. The above is all from knowing people who have had serious problems with tenants. A good pay on time tenant is a rare thing. Touch wood, I've never yet had a problem, or any tenants who weren't 'good pay-on-time' types. Have to say I do vet them very, very carefully though, and also trust my instinct. Check out www.landlordzone.co.uk - excellent info resource, and has a very helpful forum. Good luck David |
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#28
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OT Renting Out a Flat
In message , Owain
writes Tony Bryer wrote: You are responsible for the service charge. Council Tax is the responsibility of the tenant: make sure you write to the Council telling them the tenant's name and when they move in so that they don't come after you if it's not paid. Oh yes they will, there is a hierachy of liability and if the occupier doesn't pay then the owner has to. No he doesnt - I've had loads of tenants not pay council tax and have never been approached for it. And the council know exactly who I am and where I live. -- Richard Faulkner |
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#29
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OT Renting Out a Flat
In message , Owain
writes wrote: Would you recommend getting a lawyer to write an official rental contract or just do it on a handshake & deposit You *must* have a proper tenancy agreement with all the proper notices served on the tenant before the start of the tenancy, otherwise you run a very real risk of granting the tenant security of tenure for life. You cant say "must" anymore as, without a written tenancy, it is assumed to be an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. In fact, using the wrong form of tenancy agreement could create exactly the problem you are suggesting, so a verbal agreement could be as good as any - except you wouldnt be able to use the Accelerated Possession procedure, and would have to attend a hearing if you want possession. You can get the forms from stationers or even tesco.com but follow the instructions very carefully. I use the RLA forms, which you can get by joining, (possibly as a guest), and have used them successfully in several evictions. and should I hand it over to an agency or do it myself? If you can find a good agent ... agreed If you live locally you are probably better managing it yourself. agreed You will need your insurers' and mortgagors' agreement and some mortgage companies will insist that the property is let through an agency. Moot point. The mortgage agreement usually requires this, but you dont actually need it. Not trying to be awkward, but this is a very trick area. Regds -- Richard Faulkner |
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#31
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OT Renting Out a Flat
In message , Lobster
writes Most important is that you vet the agent you choose - check their T&Cs and fees very carefully, and make sure you use one who's a member of the trade organisation ARLA or equivalent. Be assured that there are plenty of really naff agents out there. Some of them belong to the various trade associations g -- Richard Faulkner |
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#32
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OT Renting Out a Flat
snip
Thank you so much for all the replies. It seems like there's so much to consider. The problem is I might not be able to afford to sell as I probably wouldn't make enough to pay everything charged against the property. But then I also might not be able to afford the mortgage either if I stay! I'll have to look into the options more I think before I do anything. |
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#33
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Richard Faulkner wrote:
In message , Owain writes Tony Bryer wrote: You are responsible for the service charge. Council Tax is the responsibility of the tenant: make sure you write to the Council telling them the tenant's name and when they move in so that they don't come after you if it's not paid. Oh yes they will, there is a hierachy of liability and if the occupier doesn't pay then the owner has to. No he doesnt - I've had loads of tenants not pay council tax and have never been approached for it. And the council know exactly who I am and where I live. Probably a Scottish - English law difference? ...he says diplomatically! I certainly agree with Richard as far as England goes. David |
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#34
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OT Renting Out a Flat
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:56:08 GMT Lobster wrote :
One good example of how agents stiff a wet-behind-the-ears landlord (and yes, I was he!) is to set up a 6-month AST, for which they will charge the landlord and tenant handsomely, and then in 6 months time, and every 6 months thereafter, will charge again for 'renewal' fees. Whereas, it's completely unecessary to renew an AST - after the initial period has expired, it legally defaults indefinitely to a 'periodic' tenancy, I tend to agree with you, but if this were not the case the letting agent would be far more disposed to try and find tenants who were not likely to stay beyond the set term so he could then get a relet. At least this way it is in the agent's interest as well as yours to find a good tenant who will stay for a decent time. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
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#35
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message That is why they are forced into using heavies rather than the law, because the law favours fraudsters and thieves. Anyone who enters into an agreement and does not pay, and clearly has no intention of is a thief. If a kid snatches a bag in the street with £50 in it and pushes over an old ladyover while doing it, it is headline news. Swindle 10s of thousands and law backs them up and allows them to go their merry way. You are right. Under a shorthold tenancy agreement, the law specifically states that when this happens this should occur. So, the court should give possession if all is in order. Many have not because the tenant has nowhere to go, so the landlord is acting as a free homeless centre. The councils, because of Thatcher stupidly selling off council houses for cheap votes, don't have the accommodation. Yet the government/financial institutions is/was encouraging naive peopleto buy to let. Very irresponsible indeed. For the 3rd time in living history I quite agree with you. I forgot to add one more thing: a percentage of tenants have personality problems that cause assorted horrors for landlords. I know one that was hauled off by the police because a tenant was involved in drugs, and its a criminal offence to permit a property to be used for drugs, even when he had no way of knowing, no powers to enter and search, no evidence, and it isnt his job to police his tenants anyway. Letting rooms is always the last resort, except for prostitution. NT |
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#36
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OT Renting Out a Flat
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#37
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OT Renting Out a Flat
wrote in message ups.com... Doctor Drivel wrote: wrote in message That is why they are forced into using heavies rather than the law, because the law favours fraudsters and thieves. Anyone who enters into an agreement and does not pay, and clearly has no intention of is a thief. If a kid snatches a bag in the street with £50 in it and pushes over an old lady over while doing it, it is headline news. Swindle 10s of thousands and law backs them up and allows them to go their merry way. You are right. Under a shorthold tenancy agreement, the law specifically states that when this happens this should occur. So, the court should give possession if all is in order. Many have not because the tenant has nowhere to go, so the landlord is acting as a free homeless centre. The councils, because of Thatcher stupidly selling off council houses for cheap votes, don't have the accommodation. Yet the government/financial institutions is/was encouraging naive people to buy to let. Very irresponsible indeed. For the 3rd time in living history I quite agree with you. This is encouraging. You are learning. I forgot to add one more thing: a percentage of tenants have personality problems that cause assorted horrors for landlords. I know one that was hauled off by the police because a tenant was involved in drugs, and its a criminal offence to permit a property to be used for drugs, even when he had no way of knowing, no powers to enter and search, no evidence, and it isnt his job to police his tenants anyway. One a contract is signed, it is not the landlords property anymore, until the contract expires and the landlord "gains possession" or a court order gives the property back to the landlord, and only then when he "gains possession". If a tenant is dealing in drugs from the flat then the landlord has nothing to do with it, as long as he was not aware that the flat was to be a dealing house when letting. |
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#38
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OT Renting Out a Flat
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#39
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OT Renting Out a Flat
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... One a contract is signed, it is not the landlords property anymore, What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course it is still the Landlords property, he/she still owns it! They are just allowing somebody else to rent it and live there. If it's no longer the landlords property as you say why then is he responsible for the buildings insurance, gas checks, repairs, etc. etc. What about the 1000's of Council and Housing Association properties out there are you then saying every council tenant is a home owner? until the contract expires and the landlord "gains possession" or a court order gives the property back to the landlord, and only then when he "gains possession". Now that sounds better, the property is not in the landlords possession, whilst the tenant lives there. Cheers John |
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#40
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OT Renting Out a Flat
Owain wrote:
Lobster wrote: Richard Faulkner wrote: there is a hierachy of liability and if the occupier doesn't pay then the owner has to. No he doesnt - I've had loads of tenants not pay council tax and have never been approached for it. And the council know exactly who I am and where I live. But a Google search on council tax liability shows the hierachy of liability as: The hierarchy of liability in England is: a resident who lives in the property and who owns the freehold a resident who lives in the property and who has a lease or who is an assured or an assured shorthold tenant a resident who lives in the property and who is a protected, statutory or a secure tenant a resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee. This means that they are not a tenant, but have permission to stay there any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter an owner of the property who does not live there. The hierarchy of liability in Scotland is: a resident who owns all or part of the dwelling a resident who is a tenant of all or part of the dwelling a resident who is a statutory, statutory assured, or secure tenant of all or part of the dwelling a resident who is a sub-tenant of all or part of the dwelling a resident with no security of tenure a non-resident owner of any part of the dwelling unless there is a non- resident tenant or sub-tenant who has a lease (or sub-lease) of six months or more. The owner will be liable if:- the property is in multiple occupation, for example, a house lived in by a number of people who all pay rent, but no-one is responsible for paying the whole of the rent; or the people who live in the property are all under the age of 18; or the people who live in the property are all asylum seekers who are not entitled to claim benefits including council tax benefit; or the people who are staying in the property have their main homes somewhere else; or the property is a care home. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nw/ind...ouncil_tax.htm Yes, but surely the "heirarchy of liability" thingy is just used to determine who is liable to pay the CT on a property. Having used those rules to decide that it's the resident tenant who needs to pay it, that doesn't mean that if (s)he buggers off without coughing up, then the liability automatically passes on to someone else. Look at the last section above - "the owner will be liable if..." it doesn't say "if the council are unable to wring the cash out of the sitting tenant"! I agree the situation is different and more complex for a House of Multiple Occupation, but that will presuambly not be the case for the OP's flat. Incidentally, there are moves afoot (bloody Two-Jags again, I think) to make landlords liable for council tax on any property they rent out, and pass on the cost within the rent, precisely for this reason - then if the tenant does a bunk, the council won't lose out or need to chase up unpaid CT. Bless. This change to the law wouldn't be necessary if what you say about passing on liability was true. David |
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