I bought a Flavel Misermatic gas fire in Nov 2004 and had it fited by a
gas engineer. It worked ok for about 6 months and then developed a
fault. It would work ok for a while and then start making bubbling
noises in the flames before going out. This only happened on full power
and not on half power We would have to wait about 5 mins before
re-lighting.

The guy who fitted it would not come out and the shop where I bought it
went out of business. After many enquiries I made contact with the
manufacturers as it was still under warranty. They sent an engineer out
who turned it off and went awya for 2 weeks (he ordered a spare part).
We had to hendure 2 weeks of freezing temptures. He return and replaced
one of the ceramic plate (which he had broken) and nothing else. So we
waited 2 weeks due to his fault though he made it look that the gas
fire needed another part.

Anyway, he could not work out why the gas fire was going out. Just by
co-incident I turned on the hot water; this dropped the gas pressure at
the gas fire. He homed in on the problem; the combi boiler was causing
the problem. He went and looked at the boiler and said that the piping
to it was wrong. Apprantly, the combi boiler had 15mm gas pipe going to
it which was not enough. So when we turned on water, the boiler was
taking excessive amount of gas and the gas fire was being starved of
gas.

He offered this explanation and left saying that our boiler was to
blame. The gas fire worked ok for 3 months. It has started to go out
again now after 3 months.

What I do not understand is that the gas fire worked perfectly for
first 6 months although we were using the boiler constantly for CH and
hot water. And again after the engineer had been, it worked ok for 3
months.

Did the engineer give me incorrect info? Is the 15mm piping to the
combi boiler incorrect (I am not even sure what size it is - boiler has
always worked and BG cover it for service)? We never had any such
problems with previous gas fires.

Nick wrote:
I bought a Flavel Misermatic gas fire in Nov 2004 and had it fited by
a gas engineer. It worked ok for about 6 months and then developed a
fault. It would work ok for a while and then start making bubbling
noises in the flames before going out. This only happened on full
power and not on half power We would have to wait about 5 mins before
re-lighting.

The guy who fitted it would not come out and the shop where I bought
it went out of business. After many enquiries I made contact with the
manufacturers as it was still under warranty. They sent an engineer
out who turned it off and went awya for 2 weeks (he ordered a spare
part). We had to hendure 2 weeks of freezing temptures. He return and
replaced one of the ceramic plate (which he had broken) and nothing
else. So we waited 2 weeks due to his fault though he made it look
that the gas fire needed another part.

Anyway, he could not work out why the gas fire was going out. Just by
co-incident I turned on the hot water; this dropped the gas pressure
at the gas fire. He homed in on the problem; the combi boiler was
causing the problem. He went and looked at the boiler and said that
the piping to it was wrong. Apprantly, the combi boiler had 15mm gas
pipe going to it which was not enough. So when we turned on water,
the boiler was taking excessive amount of gas and the gas fire was
being starved of gas.

He offered this explanation and left saying that our boiler was to
blame. The gas fire worked ok for 3 months. It has started to go out
again now after 3 months.

What I do not understand is that the gas fire worked perfectly for
first 6 months although we were using the boiler constantly for CH and
hot water. And again after the engineer had been, it worked ok for 3
months.

Did the engineer give me incorrect info? Is the 15mm piping to the
combi boiler incorrect (I am not even sure what size it is - boiler
has always worked and BG cover it for service)? We never had any such
problems with previous gas fires.


If you ask me he's ripping the **** - did the boiler not have this diameter
pipe for those six months? - or the other 3 months when it worked? - IMHO he
was angling for some expensive work re-arranging your pipes, plus, how come
british Gas have never noticed during their 'services'?

If I were you, I would switch off the isolator to the fire if it has one, if
not just switch the fire off and leave it to cool, take out the radiants
very *carefully* and use a compressed air aerosol (typically used for
cleaning computer components) and give the gas jets a blast over, there's
probably grit or other detritus blocking some of them, if this doesn't work,
there's probably a problem with the regulator on the gas meter causing low
pressure, a transco job.

Phil L wrote:
(typically used for cleaning computer components) and give the gas
jets a blast over, there's probably grit or other detritus blocking
some of them,

Forgot to add, *DO* *NOT* use a vaccum cleaner to 'suck' up any blockages,
if there's any errant gas around, it /could/ blow up the Hoover!

In article .com,
"Nick" writes:
He offered this explanation and left saying that our boiler was to
blame. The gas fire worked ok for 3 months. It has started to go out
again now after 3 months.

What I do not understand is that the gas fire worked perfectly for
first 6 months although we were using the boiler constantly for CH and
hot water. And again after the engineer had been, it worked ok for 3
months.

Did the engineer give me incorrect info? Is the 15mm piping to the
combi boiler incorrect (I am not even sure what size it is - boiler has
always worked and BG cover it for service)? We never had any such
problems with previous gas fires.

I had the same problem on a gas fire fitted by the local Gas
showroom (remember those?). It was supplied from a pipe which
fed a previous gas fire, which was fed from the iron pipework
which used to supply the gas lamps and weaved its way all
round the house. When the main burner came on, the pilot flame
shrunk enough that it didn't play on the thermocouple, and
after 10-20 minutes, the flame failure valve dropped out.

Reconnecting to the gas supply from the meter, which ran under
the floor only a few feet from the fire, completely solved the
problem. Some years later, I disconnected all the old gaslamp
pipework from the supply.

--
Andrew Gabriel

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Reconnecting to the gas supply from the meter, which ran under
the floor only a few feet from the fire, completely solved the
problem. Some years later, I disconnected all the old gaslamp
pipework from the supply.

Puts me in mind of a friend who found a strange iron pipe in the plaster
beside the window. Decided it must be a gas pipe (correct) and decided
it must have been disconnected years ago (incorrect) and that the safe
thing to do was slice it off with an angle grinder (also incorrect).

I don't suppose I need to draw diagrams!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:
Forgot to add, *DO* *NOT* use a vaccum cleaner to 'suck' up any blockages,
if there's any errant gas around, it /could/ blow up the Hoover!

I'm just picturing my Hoover Constellation with a long blue
flame shooting out the bottom -- it would look like a small
lunar module taking off...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In message ,
lid writes
In article ,
"Phil L" writes:
Forgot to add, *DO* *NOT* use a vaccum cleaner to 'suck' up any blockages,
if there's any errant gas around, it /could/ blow up the Hoover!

I'm just picturing my Hoover Constellation with a long blue
flame shooting out the bottom -- it would look like a small
lunar module taking off...

Or the AA man in the current advert

--
geoff

In message , Phil L
writes
Phil L wrote:
(typically used for cleaning computer components) and give the gas
jets a blast over, there's probably grit or other detritus blocking
some of them,

Forgot to add, *DO* *NOT* use a vaccum cleaner to 'suck' up any blockages,
if there's any errant gas around, it /could/ blow up the Hoover!


Oh dear ... BOOM

--
geoff

On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:53:06 GMT, Guy King wrote:

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Reconnecting to the gas supply from the meter, which ran under
the floor only a few feet from the fire, completely solved the
problem. Some years later, I disconnected all the old gaslamp
pipework from the supply.

Puts me in mind of a friend who found a strange iron pipe in the plaster
beside the window. Decided it must be a gas pipe (correct) and decided
it must have been disconnected years ago (incorrect) and that the safe
thing to do was slice it off with an angle grinder (also incorrect).

I don't suppose I need to draw diagrams!

Heh, great story! I'm curious to know what would happen under those
circumstances. Was there an explosion, or did the gas escaping from the
pipe ignite in such a way as to form an indoor flame-thrower? And if the
latter, how big an effect was it?

Did your friend manage to survive relatively unscathed?

Just being curious/nosey, like...
--
Chris Cowley

The message
from Chris Cowley contains these words:

Heh, great story! I'm curious to know what would happen under those
circumstances. Was there an explosion, or did the gas escaping from the
pipe ignite in such a way as to form an indoor flame-thrower?

Flamethrower - about three feet long. Friend OK but startled - very.
Luckily the flame was angled mostly downwards and he'd moved the
curtains up to the other end of the window to keep the dust from the
grinder off them. He turned the gas off at the mains and the flame went
out.

The whole situation was far from ideal!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

In article ,
Chris Cowley writes:

Heh, great story! I'm curious to know what would happen under those
circumstances. Was there an explosion, or did the gas escaping from the
pipe ignite in such a way as to form an indoor flame-thrower? And if the
latter, how big an effect was it?

Did your friend manage to survive relatively unscathed?

Just being curious/nosey, like...

There's no significant volume of gas/air mixture which would
be required to form an explosion. You can get one hell of a
long flame though. I recall someone lighting a gas tap at
school (the type you connect bunsen burners to), and the
flame went right to the ceiling -- probably some 6 or more
feet.

OTOH, on one of my fire training courses we were shown a
picture of a guy who thought he'd use an angle grinder to
take the top off a large gas heater cylinder. Although the
gas heater thought it was empty, he clearly didn't realise
it would still be full of gas under some pressure, even
though the liquid had run out. The bloke didn't survive
his burns.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 7 Mar 2006 14:53:11 -0800, "Nick" wrote:



What I do not understand is that the gas fire worked perfectly for
first 6 months although we were using the boiler constantly for CH and
hot water. And again after the engineer had been, it worked ok for 3
months.

Was it summer and you weren't using as much central heating?

--
Get money off vouchers for everything
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

There's no significant volume of gas/air mixture which would
be required to form an explosion. You can get one hell of a
long flame though. I recall someone lighting a gas tap at
school (the type you connect bunsen burners to), and the
flame went right to the ceiling -- probably some 6 or more
feet.

I was working in Walsall in the mid 70s when workmen digging in the
street damaged a major gas main and the escaping gas caught fire. IIRC
the flame was 4 storeys high and gave out enough heat for the fire
brigade to have to water the closest building to cool it down.

--
Roger Chapman

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:59:38 GMT, Guy King wrote:

The message
from Chris Cowley contains these words:

Heh, great story! I'm curious to know what would happen under those
circumstances. Was there an explosion, or did the gas escaping from the
pipe ignite in such a way as to form an indoor flame-thrower?

Flamethrower - about three feet long. Friend OK but startled - very.
Luckily the flame was angled mostly downwards and he'd moved the
curtains up to the other end of the window to keep the dust from the
grinder off them. He turned the gas off at the mains and the flame went
out.

It sounds like he was bloody lucky to be able to walk away. I bet it
took him a few seconds to realise what the hell was going on. Years ago,
after I'd done up a bathroom, I was putting in the final finishing
touch; a doorstrip to hold the lino down across the doorway. As I
drilled a ~25mm hole in the concrete floor for a rawl plug, I was hit
squarely in the face by a blast of cold mains-pressure water. I reckon
it took me fully 2 seconds to realise what had happened before I jumped
up to switch the stop-cock off. Obviously that's not quite in the same
league as your friend, though!

The whole situation was far from ideal!

Yup! Understatement of the day, that.
--
Chris Cowley

The message
from Roger contains these words:

I was working in Walsall in the mid 70s when workmen digging in the
street damaged a major gas main and the escaping gas caught fire.

I was walking to work in Warren Street (W1) years ago when a friend of
mine stood on an inspection hatch and was surrounded by a curtain of
flame which shot up in a rectangle round him. The blackout lasted for
several hours while the bods replaced the wiring under the cover.

The next day, next to the cover was a hole being dug by the gas board.
There were two blokes in the hole waggling a tee-joint in a pipe that
must have been about 3" diameter - and the gas coming out was enough to
blow grit up out of the hole. Scary. Leroy, who'd been caught the day
before, legged it and went round the other side of the block to get to
work.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:35:11 GMT, Guy King wrote:

The message
from Roger contains these words:

I was working in Walsall in the mid 70s when workmen digging in the
street damaged a major gas main and the escaping gas caught fire.

I was walking to work in Warren Street (W1) years ago when a friend of
mine stood on an inspection hatch and was surrounded by a curtain of
flame which shot up in a rectangle round him. The blackout lasted for
several hours while the bods replaced the wiring under the cover.

The next day, next to the cover was a hole being dug by the gas board.
There were two blokes in the hole waggling a tee-joint in a pipe that
must have been about 3" diameter - and the gas coming out was enough to
blow grit up out of the hole. Scary. Leroy, who'd been caught the day
before, legged it and went round the other side of the block to get to
work.

Hrm... I'm beginning to think you must be some sort of jinx!
--
Chris Cowley

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:35:11 GMT, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from Roger contains these words:

I was working in Walsall in the mid 70s when workmen digging in the
street damaged a major gas main and the escaping gas caught fire.

I was walking to work in Warren Street (W1) years ago when a friend of
mine stood on an inspection hatch and was surrounded by a curtain of
flame which shot up in a rectangle round him. The blackout lasted for
several hours while the bods replaced the wiring under the cover.

The next day, next to the cover was a hole being dug by the gas board.
There were two blokes in the hole waggling a tee-joint in a pipe that
must have been about 3" diameter - and the gas coming out was enough to
blow grit up out of the hole. Scary. Leroy, who'd been caught the day
before, legged it and went round the other side of the block to get to
work.
Oh theres a lot bigger and scarier than that in the ground. We Transco
chaps have no fear when it comes to gas you know. Just call me Red
Adair..oh i forgot,hes dead now isnt he?



Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

The message
from tarquinlinbin contains these words:

The next day, next to the cover was a hole being dug by the gas board.
There were two blokes in the hole waggling a tee-joint in a pipe that
must have been about 3" diameter - and the gas coming out was enough to
blow grit up out of the hole. Scary. Leroy, who'd been caught the day
before, legged it and went round the other side of the block to get to
work.
Oh theres a lot bigger and scarier than that in the ground.

Yeah, but this was right outside Warren Street tube with commuters
dropping fagends and the like /into the hole/!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:59:22 +0000, tarquinlinbin
wrote:

Oh theres a lot bigger and scarier than that in the ground. We Transco
chaps have no fear when it comes to gas you know. Just call me Red
Adair..oh i forgot,hes dead now isnt he?

Ginger Rogers is dead as well.


--

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Nick wrote:

No. Originally the gas fire was fitted in December and it worked fine
until around June. WE were using the GCH and hot water all the time in
those 6 months. The recent visit was in November when the engineer
told us about the ga pressure. After he left, the fire worked ok
until end of Feb and then started to go out again.

When the engineer was here, on its own, the gas fire supply was
showing a pressure of around 18-20. When the boiler came on, the
pressure on gas fire dropped to around 15. He said that this was the
problem because this gas fire needs around 18-20 pressure and the
boiler was taking too much gas.

Its all confusing to me.

How are the pipes routed? Do the fire and boiler share the same pipe, or do
they have independent feeds all the way from the meter?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but is disposable in the event of excessive
spam.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:32:19 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

15mm pipework to a combi is rarely acceptible. The pipework is only allowed
to drop 1mb. You seem to be dropping up to 5mb. The installer of the combi
was clearly incompetent. Checking the pipe sizes for pressure drop, both at
the design and testing stage is an essential part of a competent
installation.

The (CORGI) bloke who installed my combi last year used 15mm on the
branch to the combi (with a 22m reducer at the back of the boiler)
because that's what was already there to service the old boiler.
Whenever the boiler initially fires-up (e.g. when a hot tap is turned
on) the cooker flame visibly drops for a split second - not quite enough
for it to go out, fortunately. It does sound like the OP has a similar,
but slightly more extreme, version of the same problem to me.

--
Chris Cowley

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Chris Cowley wrote:

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:32:19 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

15mm pipework to a combi is rarely acceptible. The pipework is only
allowed to drop 1mb. You seem to be dropping up to 5mb. The
installer of the combi was clearly incompetent. Checking the pipe
sizes for pressure drop, both at the design and testing stage is an
essential part of a competent installation.

The (CORGI) bloke who installed my combi last year used 15mm on the
branch to the combi (with a 22m reducer at the back of the boiler)
because that's what was already there to service the old boiler.
Whenever the boiler initially fires-up (e.g. when a hot tap is turned
on) the cooker flame visibly drops for a split second - not quite
enough for it to go out, fortunately. It does sound like the OP has a
similar, but slightly more extreme, version of the same problem to me.

Unless the 15mm pipe is shared by the boiler and fire and/or cooker, the
thin pipe itself is not the problem. The problem is that when there is a
sudden demand for a high flow of gas, the governor on the meter can't
respond fast enough - so there's a reduction in pressure until it's caught
up with itself. There's probably a corresponding surge when the boiler shuts
down.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but is disposable in the event of excessive
spam.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:50:36 -0000, "Roger Mills \(aka Set Square\)"
wrote:

Unless the 15mm pipe is shared by the boiler and fire and/or cooker, the
thin pipe itself is not the problem. The problem is that when there is a
sudden demand for a high flow of gas, the governor on the meter can't
respond fast enough - so there's a reduction in pressure until it's caught
up with itself. There's probably a corresponding surge when the boiler shuts
down.

So the problem (in my case) is the governor then? I'm not over-bothered
about it at the moment, but my concern is if it gets any worse the oven
may start to go out when the boiler comes on. I know the oven has some
sort of safety mechanism which reduces the gas flow to a minimum when
cold, but at the very least it means my dinner wouldn't be ready when I
expect it to be and that's not good!

If there is a possible problem with the governor then maybe I should get
Transco out? I assume it's their responsibility.
--
Chris Cowley

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Chris Cowley wrote:

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:50:36 -0000, "Roger Mills \(aka Set Square\)"
wrote:

Unless the 15mm pipe is shared by the boiler and fire and/or cooker,
the thin pipe itself is not the problem. The problem is that when
there is a sudden demand for a high flow of gas, the governor on the
meter can't respond fast enough - so there's a reduction in pressure
until it's caught up with itself. There's probably a corresponding
surge when the boiler shuts down.

So the problem (in my case) is the governor then? I'm not
over-bothered about it at the moment, but my concern is if it gets
any worse the oven may start to go out when the boiler comes on. I
know the oven has some sort of safety mechanism which reduces the gas
flow to a minimum when cold, but at the very least it means my dinner
wouldn't be ready when I expect it to be and that's not good!

It's certainly my belief - albeit from a theoretical point of view - that
fluctuations in pressure are caused by a sudden demand for gas. I'm not sure
whether the governor is necessarily faulty - or whether it's simply behaving
like governors do! It is, after all, a fairly crude mechanical servo device
which attempts to keep the output pressure constant by controlling the size
of a variable orifice. If there's a sudden increase of flow rate it through
it, it needs to open its orifice more. It's probably too much to expect that
it will do this instantly with no pressure fluctuations - especially when
you consider that gas is compressible. Appliances should hopefully be
designed in such as way that they are able to cope with this.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but is disposable in the event of excessive
spam.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:19:54 -0000, "Roger Mills \(aka Set Square\)"
wrote:

It's certainly my belief - albeit from a theoretical point of view - that
fluctuations in pressure are caused by a sudden demand for gas. I'm not sure
whether the governor is necessarily faulty - or whether it's simply behaving
like governors do! It is, after all, a fairly crude mechanical servo device
which attempts to keep the output pressure constant by controlling the size
of a variable orifice. If there's a sudden increase of flow rate it through
it, it needs to open its orifice more. It's probably too much to expect that
it will do this instantly with no pressure fluctuations - especially when
you consider that gas is compressible. Appliances should hopefully be
designed in such as way that they are able to cope with this.

Okay, thanks. I'll see how it is in a few weeks after the new oven and
hob have been plumbed-in as the existing oven is a manky old thing that
may not be in the best condition internally.

I'm surprised that modern high-rate combi-boilers and such like don't
have a gas value that opens/closes more slowly to give the governor a
chance of keeping up with the demand. I suppose there must be a reason
("cost" most probably comes into it somewhere - it usually does!). From
looking at the recent posts here, this seems to be quite a common issue
(I hesitate to use the word "problem", as it isn't necessarily a
problem).
--
Chris Cowley

replying to Nick, sas65 wrote:
Just by co-incident I turned on the hot water; this dropped the gas pressure
at the gas fire.
I have the same problem. I run the hot water and the fire goes out. This does
not happen all the time. Although when it decides to start play silly buggers
it does it consistently. This is a 37 ft static caravan.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...ut-337941-.htm

On 26/02/2018 18:14, sas65 wrote:
replying to Nick, sas65 wrote:
Just by co-incident I turned on the hot water; this dropped the gas
pressure
at the gas fire. I have the same problem. I run the hot water and the
fire goes out. This does
not happen all the time. Although when it decides to start play silly
buggers
it does it consistently. This is a 37 ft static caravan.


2006 Post !!.

never mind, the next big storm will blow it away.