Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

... but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

Assuming the 'light therapy' theory thing works? Apparently you need a
minimum of 2500 lux before you get any positive effects and domestic
lighting is typically only "around 200-500 lux".

A good sunny day would give you 100,000 lux (and I live in the UK so
can't wait that long) ;-)

( from http://www.sada.org.uk/treat.htm ).

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please (I'm not worried about the enclosure but the
lamp / electrics / electronics etc)?

I did consider the 'Gro Lux' type of flouro strip lamps they sell for
tropical fish tanks .. they do seem very 'bright' (producing vivid
colours etc) in comparison to std lamps? (These could be fitted into
a traditional bulkhead lamp enclosure and stood in a corner sorta
thing .. as it happens I have such that just needs two new tubes and
starters .. ) ;-)

Whilst Googling about I also found a SAD lamp that used ultrabright
LED's. Would they offer the same broad spectrum as the traditional
lamps (whatever *they* are) would you know (obviously a much easier
solution if it were feasable .. less heat / power / complexity etc)?

Q, How many LEDs would it take to produce 10,000 lux (at say 50 cm) ?
A, Looks like about 72 from the pictures I've seen!

This model suggests that some LED's over a very narrow spectrum .. but
if it's on the bit that matters (as far as SAD etc ..?)

http://www.truesun.com/Golite/golitep1.htm

Are these things generally 'expensive' because they are being sold to
those looking for a cure[1], or actually the 'right price' considering
manufacturing / component costs etc?

Anyone used one and have any feedback please (and before that nice
Chris Bacon points me to alt.health.magic or whatever I'm also asking
that bit here as you guys are 'practical folk' rather than 'health
nuts' weg)? (and the focus is 'building one / some myself' Chris, 1
because I can / would like to and 2, to maybe save some money and
maybe design something that fits our needs)) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[1] Like I imagine funeral services could be when 'sold' to the next
of kin .."Would you really want to see Grandad off in a cheap casket
like that Sir?" ;-)

snip
Q, How many LEDs would it take to produce 10,000 lux (at say 50 cm) ?
A, Looks like about 72 from the pictures I've seen!

This model suggests that some LED's over a very narrow spectrum .. but
if it's on the bit that matters (as far as SAD etc ..?)


Take a look at
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HKJE-Led-La...Q3amesstQQtZkm

I have purchased quite a few from them and they are good prices and delivery

Hope that helps

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

.. but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

There is a lot of light.

The right way to make these is a pair of glasses, with around 5 white
LEDs per lens, a diffuser over the top of the lens.
So you get a bright 'sky', and can see normally for the rest of the
field.

In article ,
T i m writes:

Assuming the 'light therapy' theory thing works? Apparently you need a
minimum of 2500 lux before you get any positive effects and domestic
lighting is typically only "around 200-500 lux".

A good sunny day would give you 100,000 lux (and I live in the UK so
can't wait that long) ;-)

( from http://www.sada.org.uk/treat.htm ).

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please (I'm not worried about the enclosure but the
lamp / electrics / electronics etc)?

Just get a set of cheap fluorescent fittings (sometimes you
can buy them in 4-packs). Stick with the tubes they come with
(which will probably be quite efficient 3500K ones).
Another thought would be to get a 4-tube modular ceiling
fitting -- these are dirt cheap from electrical wholesalers,
and even less from a skip outside an office refurb. They are
available for 2' and 4' tubes.

Commercial units up the price by using dimming electronic
control gear and some special coloured (and expensive and only
available from the manufacturer, etc) tubes. None of this is
necessary.

I did consider the 'Gro Lux' type of flouro strip lamps they sell for
tropical fish tanks .. they do seem very 'bright' (producing vivid
colours etc) in comparison to std lamps? (These could be fitted into

'Gro Lux' are optimised for plants, not humans. Suggest you
don't bother with any special coloured tubes (such as daylight
or full spectrum) as they are less efficient and there's no
evidence the colour at this level makes any difference, just
the intensity.

Whilst Googling about I also found a SAD lamp that used ultrabright
LED's. Would they offer the same broad spectrum as the traditional
lamps (whatever *they* are) would you know (obviously a much easier
solution if it were feasable .. less heat / power / complexity etc)?

Sounds like another way of charging even more. LED's are not
more efficient than fluorescent lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:46:04 -0000, "R obbo"
wrote:

snip
Q, How many LEDs would it take to produce 10,000 lux (at say 50 cm) ?
A, Looks like about 72 from the pictures I've seen!

This model suggests that some LED's over a very narrow spectrum .. but
if it's on the bit that matters (as far as SAD etc ..?)


Take a look at
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HKJE-Led-La...Q3amesstQQtZkm

I have purchased quite a few from them and they are good prices and delivery

Thanks for that.

Hope that helps

It might .. if we know these are the *right* LED's for the task in
hand (assuming there is such a thing etc).

From what I understand there may be a specific sub band of the visable
light spectrum that helps with SAD so if we don't get that right it
might not actually do anything (apart from making a bright LED 'light'
that is?) shrug ?

All the best ..

T i m

On 04 Feb 2006 13:46:53 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

.. but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

There is a lot of light.

So it seems ;-)

The right way to make these is a pair of glasses, with around 5 white
LEDs per lens, a diffuser over the top of the lens.
So you get a bright 'sky', and can see normally for the rest of the
field.

So you are suggesting the fact that the light source appears to be
similar to the sky that it works more naturally (would seem sensible)
?

Is this similar to the peaked hats you can get with the LEDs facing
back at you?

All the best ..

T i m

On 04 Feb 2006 14:04:39 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
T i m writes:

Assuming the 'light therapy' theory thing works? Apparently you need a
minimum of 2500 lux before you get any positive effects and domestic
lighting is typically only "around 200-500 lux".

A good sunny day would give you 100,000 lux (and I live in the UK so
can't wait that long) ;-)

( from http://www.sada.org.uk/treat.htm ).

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please (I'm not worried about the enclosure but the
lamp / electrics / electronics etc)?

Just get a set of cheap fluorescent fittings (sometimes you
can buy them in 4-packs). Stick with the tubes they come with
(which will probably be quite efficient 3500K ones).

Hmmm .. so, thinking of my daughter in her room, I buit the bed in the
celing above her worktop and hung a 5' flouro under the bed part.
Could this be actually contributing towards anti SAD effects or
wouldn't there be enough light from a single tube?

Another thought would be to get a 4-tube modular ceiling
fitting -- these are dirt cheap from electrical wholesalers,
and even less from a skip outside an office refurb. They are
available for 2' and 4' tubes.

Hmmm, I was playing with the exect same thing the other day .. (4 x 2'
tubes). ;-)

Commercial units up the price by using dimming electronic
control gear and some special coloured (and expensive and only
available from the manufacturer, etc) tubes. None of this is
necessary.

Ok, thanks.

I did consider the 'Gro Lux' type of flouro strip lamps they sell for
tropical fish tanks .. they do seem very 'bright' (producing vivid
colours etc) in comparison to std lamps? (These could be fitted into

'Gro Lux' are optimised for plants, not humans.

Well true, however I thought they might be more effective if they
output a stronger light (more lux) or a wider spectrum ...?

Suggest you
don't bother with any special coloured tubes (such as daylight
or full spectrum) as they are less efficient and there's no
evidence the colour at this level makes any difference, just
the intensity.

Ah, ok, so basic and bright is our goal here ;-)

Whilst Googling about I also found a SAD lamp that used ultrabright
LED's. Would they offer the same broad spectrum as the traditional
lamps (whatever *they* are) would you know (obviously a much easier
solution if it were feasable .. less heat / power / complexity etc)?

Sounds like another way of charging even more. LED's are not
more efficient than fluorescent lamps.

No but smaller, lighter, cooler, easier to run from DC and safer
(lower voltages and no risk of breaking a tube etc)?

Assuming I had the choice of a 4 x 2' flouros or an equal number of
white LED's (to offer the same level of observed brightness) in the
skip would you still avoid the LED's Andrew (just wondering why)?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
On 04 Feb 2006 13:46:53 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

.. but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

There is a lot of light.

So it seems ;-)

The right way to make these is a pair of glasses, with around 5 white
LEDs per lens, a diffuser over the top of the lens.
So you get a bright 'sky', and can see normally for the rest of the
field.

So you are suggesting the fact that the light source appears to be
similar to the sky that it works more naturally (would seem sensible)
?

Basically, yes.
And that it's a lot more convenient to actually use, not to mention
much, much lower construction and use costs.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Sounds like another way of charging even more. LED's are not
more efficient than fluorescent lamps.

No but smaller, lighter, cooler, easier to run from DC and safer
(lower voltages and no risk of breaking a tube etc)?

They're not cooler running than florries with electronic ballasts.

Assuming I had the choice of a 4 x 2' flouros or an equal number of
white LED's (to offer the same level of observed brightness) in the
skip would you still avoid the LED's Andrew (just wondering why)?

To achieve the same brightness would cost a *lot* more with LEDs.

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..


I have one of these.

Although this is a flourescent table lamp its realy quite bright.
http://tinyurl.com/99tny

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:21:57 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..


I have one of these.

Although this is a flourescent table lamp its realy quite bright.
http://tinyurl.com/99tny

And neat too .. but, could / do you use it as an anti SAD device?

The suggestion that you need at least 2500 lux to start to push the
right buttons?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:31:18 GMT, T i m wrote:

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=287 might be of interest.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 19:14:13 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:31:18 GMT, T i m wrote:

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=287 might be of interest.


Feel like you are falling into the sun with one of these. :-)

http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0189/Jet_...g_Systems.html



Mark S.

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

.. but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

Assuming the 'light therapy' theory thing works? Apparently you need a
minimum of 2500 lux before you get any positive effects and domestic
lighting is typically only "around 200-500 lux".

A good sunny day would give you 100,000 lux (and I live in the UK so
can't wait that long) ;-)

( from http://www.sada.org.uk/treat.htm ).

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please (I'm not worried about the enclosure but the
lamp / electrics / electronics etc)?

I did consider the 'Gro Lux' type of flouro strip lamps they sell for
tropical fish tanks .. they do seem very 'bright' (producing vivid
colours etc) in comparison to std lamps? (These could be fitted into
a traditional bulkhead lamp enclosure and stood in a corner sorta
thing .. as it happens I have such that just needs two new tubes and
starters .. ) ;-)

Whilst Googling about I also found a SAD lamp that used ultrabright
LED's. Would they offer the same broad spectrum as the traditional
lamps (whatever *they* are) would you know (obviously a much easier
solution if it were feasable .. less heat / power / complexity etc)?

Q, How many LEDs would it take to produce 10,000 lux (at say 50 cm) ?
A, Looks like about 72 from the pictures I've seen!

This model suggests that some LED's over a very narrow spectrum .. but
if it's on the bit that matters (as far as SAD etc ..?)

http://www.truesun.com/Golite/golitep1.htm

Are these things generally 'expensive' because they are being sold to
those looking for a cure[1], or actually the 'right price' considering
manufacturing / component costs etc?

Anyone used one and have any feedback please (and before that nice
Chris Bacon points me to alt.health.magic or whatever I'm also asking
that bit here as you guys are 'practical folk' rather than 'health
nuts' weg)? (and the focus is 'building one / some myself' Chris, 1
because I can / would like to and 2, to maybe save some money and
maybe design something that fits our needs)) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[1] Like I imagine funeral services could be when 'sold' to the next
of kin .."Would you really want to see Grandad off in a cheap casket
like that Sir?" ;-)

suggest asking in the lighting newsgroup, where someone can bring all
this back to facts.

NT

In message , T i m
writes
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:46:04 -0000, "R obbo"
wrote:

snip
Q, How many LEDs would it take to produce 10,000 lux (at say 50 cm) ?
A, Looks like about 72 from the pictures I've seen!

This model suggests that some LED's over a very narrow spectrum .. but
if it's on the bit that matters (as far as SAD etc ..?)


Take a look at
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HKJE-Led-La...ameZstrkQ3amef
sQ3amesstQQtZkm

I have purchased quite a few from them and they are good prices and delivery

Thanks for that.

Hope that helps

It might .. if we know these are the *right* LED's for the task in
hand (assuming there is such a thing etc).

From what I understand there may be a specific sub band of the visable
light spectrum that helps with SAD so if we don't get that right it
might not actually do anything (apart from making a bright LED 'light'
that is?) shrug ?

What you really need is a fusion reactor if you want the correct
spectral distribution

Otherwise, anything which works on dopamine


--
geoff

T i m wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:21:57 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti
SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to
help him as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..


I have one of these.

Although this is a flourescent table lamp its realy quite bright.
http://tinyurl.com/99tny

And neat too .. but, could / do you use it as an anti SAD device?

The suggestion that you need at least 2500 lux to start to push the
right buttons?

All the best ..

T i m

To be hoest living in an enviroment where the lighting is low is a
drepressing state i.e having 40w light bulbs in all rooms.
I cannot abide this type of living as anything below a 100w lighting is too
depressing for me bearing in mind I'm not a SAD person. (cue the sadist)
:-P

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:28:39 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:


To be hoest living in an enviroment where the lighting is low is a
drepressing state i.e having 40w light bulbs in all rooms.

Agreed (probably). The only room we have 'low level' lighting (apart
from the bedroom via the dimmable bed-side light) is the lounge. This
is so we can enjoy the telly al-la cinema. All the other rooms have
100W ~ CF lamps or the flouros in the kitchen.

I cannot abide this type of living as anything below a 100w lighting is too
depressing for me bearing in mind I'm not a SAD person. (cue the sadist)

I suppose it depends what you use each room for? If you actually need
to 'see' stuff in there (or work on small things or read etc) you
either illuminate the whole room or the actual area you need
reasonably brightly? Our hall is lit with a single dusk-dawn 9w CF
lamp and that looks very bright at 4am! ;-)

I have found that as I get older I need more light (than I did as a
kid) to see things clearly as proven when I ask my 15yr old daughter
to read stuff for me that I can't (and it's nothing to do with text
size or focus / sharpness etc [1]). Like a model / serial number round
the back of a TV or PC etc .. ?

I don't suffer SAD either (that I know of) and even if going to bed
after midnight am often up at 7am with no difficulties. But then I've
never just 'fallen asleep' anywhere? Unlink my first wife who managed
to do so whilst sitting in our 14' sailing dinghy moored just off the
main straight (between bigger boats g) on Oulton Broad on 'race
night', whilst hydroplanes flew past us at around 100 mph .. must have
been all that fresh air ;-)?

All the best ..

T i m

[1] I generally wear (except when driving) 1.5x 'off the shelf'
reading glasses and in the optitions today (the wife was picking up
some new contacts) was able to read line 1 of their test sheet where
they would only expect folk to read line 4. I can often read
subtitles / captions on the TV without the glasses but it's generally
easier with.

raden wrote:
snip
What you really need is a fusion reactor if you want the correct
spectral distribution

Actually not.
None of the fusion light is visible - which is rather a good thing.
It's just the spectrum of mostly hydrogen thermally heated from the
bottom, at the point where it becomes transparent to light.

Otherwise, anything which works on dopamine

In message , T i m
wrote
Hi All,

I was round a friends earlier and he has bought one of those anti SAD
(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lamps (bright white light) to help him
as he is fairly housebound (.. elderely / ill etc).

It was a nice looking unit (Brightspark) ..

http://www.lumie.com/brightlights/index.htm

.. but seemed a touch on the expensive side or so they seem at first
glance to me anyway at over 100 quid?

If you just want a bright light - splash out £2.50 at screwfix.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...98518&id=13600


As they seem to be designed to light half a town I'm sure it will give
adequate light when positioned a few feet away from you

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
raden wrote:
snip
What you really need is a fusion reactor if you want the correct
spectral distribution

Actually not.
None of the fusion light is visible - which is rather a good thing.
It's just the spectrum of mostly hydrogen thermally heated from the
bottom, at the point where it becomes transparent to light.

T'was tongue in cheek sunshine

--
geoff

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 19:14:13 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:31:18 GMT, T i m wrote:

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=287 might be of interest.

They are interesting indeed Peter (thanks).

It doesn't state what lux they are so I wonder how many I would need
to get the suggested 2500 min level?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:48:59 +0000, Mark S.
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 19:14:13 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:31:18 GMT, T i m wrote:

So, does anyone know what one would *actually need* to make one of
these lamps (for general background theraputic use rather than actual
treatment as such) please

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=287 might be of interest.


Feel like you are falling into the sun with one of these. :-)

http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0189/Jet_...g_Systems.html

Hmm, I'm not sure you get the same anti SAD benifit if you have to
wear sunglasses to be in the same room with the thing ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On 4 Feb 2006 13:55:09 -0800, wrote:



suggest asking in the lighting newsgroup, where someone can bring all
this back to facts.

Amazing what range of NG's there is eh! ;-)

There were a couple of similar (SAD) threads on there so I'll check
them through again and may ask a 'different' one myself ..

All the best .. and thanks fella ;-)

T i m

In article
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Sounds like another way of charging even more. LED's are not
more efficient than fluorescent lamps.

No but smaller, lighter, cooler, easier to run from DC and safer
(lower voltages and no risk of breaking a tube etc)?

They're not cooler running than florries with electronic ballasts.

Assuming I had the choice of a 4 x 2' flouros or an equal number of
white LED's (to offer the same level of observed brightness) in the
skip would you still avoid the LED's Andrew (just wondering why)?

To achieve the same brightness would cost a *lot* more with LEDs.


But you can conveniently get them a lot closer to you, so they don't
need the same output.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 00:23:51 +0000, Alan wrote:


If you just want a bright light - splash out £2.50 at screwfix.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...98518&id=13600


As they seem to be designed to light half a town I'm sure it will give
adequate light when positioned a few feet away from you

Until your eyeballs melt :-)

But Screwfix do a fluorescent work light
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...19417&ts=71937
which chucks out masses of light with not too much heat in a rugged
enclosure