On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:40:57 +0000 (UTC), Dave
wrote:

I used to play a guitar in a group in the sixties and I was the
band/group electrician [...]

Ah! how dangerously we lived in those days :-)

I was having a similar chat in the pub a while back with a couple of old
musos (one surprisingly well known).

"I wonder that more of us didn't get killed on stage, what with all the
dodgy wiring"

'Evolution in action. All the weak ones had been killed off by the
crappy old vans we used to drive to the gigs in'

Having driven some of those vans, I see his point.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:43:00 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

Indeed, though as a lad I used to build crystal sets and other radios,
connecting to the 'mains' earth using a single wire into a 13A plug would make
the reception come alive !

Did that ever work? Whenever I tried it, I just got deafening mains
hum. So I used the radiator pipework instead.

Blueyonder wrote:
"Grumpy owd man" wrote in message

...
I can better that [I think]. In our museum of the odd and outright
dangerous [stuff we have brought in off jobs or condemned] we have
An original sleeved MK Plug complete with ivory plastic spring loaded
retractable live and neutral pin sleeves. AND an MK plug with a bult in
switch.


I remember the ones with the switch - poplular in the 70s. They had a neon
built-in too, so you could see they were live, even of the appliance itself
was turned off.

-- JJ




I'm still usin' one. Wot's the problem ?

john

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Derek ^
saying something like:

I have heard from old Radio/TV repairer colleagues of a wire from the
"Earth" terminal on a wireless being taken to a milk bottle full of
garden soil.

Hah....

We only laugh because it's true.
--

Dave

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember sponix saying
something like:

I have just put some away for another year. Acceptably safe if used
by those that know what they are doing.

I'm rather annoyed that you can't still buy them. If anyone knows of a
source then please let me know!

waves

I'm utterly certain I've seen them knocking around as NOS in a local
farmers' store.
--

Dave

sponix wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 16:36:54 +0000, sponix wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 15:13:43 GMT, "Harry Bloomfield"
wrote:

I have somewhere in my 'museum' a weird and wonderful adaptor plug
which required no tools to fit to the cable, other than a means to
strip the cable. The wires connected by a spring clip arrangement and
once fitted (the really clever part) it could be plugged into a 5amp,
15amp or 13amp socket with or without earth pin. You just selected the
particular pin type you needed and locked them in to place.

I have/had one of those somewhere!

Thought: No I didn't.

What I had was a mains plug that could be fitted without tools.

It had a primitive wirestripper in the base and the two halves were
held together with a 1/4 turn 'screw' that it could be ondone with a
coin. The top half was a sliding fit on the bottom half.

The wires were connected via metal 'clips' and the strain relief was a
self adjusting plastic affair.

If I find it I'll post some pics.

sponix

I think those ones were a relatively modern attempt to make plug
fitting easier for idiots. They never caught on of course. ISTVR using
one once.

The Nettles with the hole to see the fuse were common in the 80s, and
not sure but I think 70s too, and there are still lots in use.

MK plugs with a hole by the earth pin were common for a very long time,
and I dont recall any genuinely satisfactory explanation for that extra
hole.

Its hard to find 13A plugs that are really out there, but in the
2A/5A/15A family there are some godawful creations. Wooden mains plugs
that change dimensions with RH and burn well are positively reassuring
compared to a 2 way 5A adaptor I once had. The metal tubes in this came
right to the surface, so just touching the adaptor with hands would fry
the user.


NT

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Mike Clarke wrote:

While we're on the nostalgia trip, does anyone know why 3 pin plugs of
yesteryear used to have a small hole beside the earth pin?

The design of the 5 A round-pin plugs I bought recently for
centrally-switched table lamps in my living room does not appear to have
changed in the last 30+ years; they have unsleeved pins and still that
mysterious hole at the top by the earth pin...

--
Alistair Riddell - BOFH
Microsoft - because god hates us

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, sponix wrote:

When I were a lad (70's) we used to have our fairy lights for Christmas
on a BC plug.

I'm rather annoyed that you can't still buy them. If anyone knows of a
source then please let me know!

Been illegal to sell them for some years now, along with all the other
various weird and wonderful combinations of adaptor which do not comply
with the relevant BS.

--
Alistair Riddell - BOFH
Microsoft - because god hates us

In article ,
sponix writes:

I'm rather annoyed that you can't still buy them. If anyone knows of a
source then please let me know!

They, and many of the other innovative products described in
this thread, all became unavailable when it became illegal
to sell electrical products which don't conform to BS.
I presume there is no BS (or EN nowadays) for B22d plugs.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 02:54:33 -0800, meow2222 wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Has anyone noticed that we mostly managed to avoid killing ourselves
with unsleeved plugs, clix, light switches that hand unscrewed to reveal
the gubbins, bar fires etc etc.

Tim

It would be interesting to know what the fire and electrocution rates
were 40 and 70 years ago.


NT

Indeed.

I think that appliances and wiring were dodgier yesteryear, but we all had
a lot less appliances then, so some reduction of risk based on
quantity.

I'd like to think people were in possession of more common sense then
too, but it's a bit self-selecting in that the people who put bar
fires[1] on the edge of the bath aren't here to tell us about it.

Tim

[1] They did too - my Dad was called as an expert witness in a coroner's
court concerning exactly this.

Alistair Riddell wrote:

The design of the 5 A round-pin plugs I bought recently for
centrally-switched table lamps in my living room does not appear to have
changed in the last 30+ years; they have unsleeved pins and still that
mysterious hole at the top by the earth pin...

Yes, the current version of BS 546 is still the 1950 edition. This must
be one of the oldest standards still in force.

--
Andy

Mike Harrison wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 12:40:15 GMT, "john" wrote:

Rummaging through my electrical stuff and realised I could throw away the
many 13 amp plugs I had removed from defunct appliances over the years. I
recalled the excitement of years ago of getting home with a new appliance
and a brand new MK Plug and taking care and pride in fitting the plug really
carefully. Now of course everything comes with a fitted plug.

Does anyone recall the plugs made by "Nettle" - they used to have a window
in them so that you could see the colour of the fuse. I always thought it
was a good idea.

--

You can now buy plugs with completely transparent backs - useful for businesses as it simplifies the
regular inspections they have to do.

In my experience these fashion items are dangerous. The transparent
plastic is different than the normal stuff. It gets brittle with age
and the first point of failure is the boss holding the main screw which
keeps the two halves together. That one would have damaged my 9 year
old but for the fact that he always switches off at the socket before
unplugging - something I now force myself to do having seen what can
happen

wrote:

I dont remeber a central conical grip.

There wasn't one.

All my Clixes had 2 plastic hooks to wrap each wire round before it
exited, just like BC lamp holders.

Exactly so. 2-pin plugs with conventional screw terminals used the same
arrangement.

The biggest problem with the bakelite Clix was that it had such deep
ridges in the lid that it was impossible to really tighten it up, so
it never gave a decent grip on the wire ends. OK, one of the many
problems...

Another was the ease with which stray strands of wire could wander and
cause a short between the pins. The Clix plug I have in front of me at
the moment has the splat marks to prove it.

--
Andy

On 8 Jan 2006 02:54:33 -0800, wrote:

It would be interesting to know what the fire and electrocution rates
were 40 and 70 years ago.

Per house, or per installed device ?

I suspect that if we had yesterday's standards with todays number of
gagets, we wouldn't have many houses left.

Mark Carver wrote:
Indeed, though as a lad I used to build crystal sets and other radios,
connecting to the 'mains' earth using a single wire into a 13A plug
would make the reception come alive !

I still use this setup for (antistatic) earthing PCs that don't have a
real power switch if I forget to borrow the proper kit from work. But I
make very sure the earth lead's not going anywhere.


--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk

Tim S wrote:

Has anyone noticed that we mostly managed to avoid killing ourselves
with unsleeved plugs, clix, light switches that hand unscrewed to reveal
the gubbins, bar fires etc etc.

It was once possible to buy replacement coiled elements for
radiant fires. You simply removed the failed one, used a piece
of string to get the length and stretched the new one to suit.
My dad told me that in his college days (1930s) they heated a
room by suspending such an element from the mantelpiece.

Mind you, his mains electric soil sterilisation kit was a bit of
an eye opener - wooden box, metal plate at each end, fill with
soil, add water until ammeter reaches desired level, leave to
simmer. I can smell it now.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

wrote:

Especially handy for a workshop as any incoming items could be fitted
with a plug in 10 seconds.

Then there was an electronics lab in which one of the less
practical design engineers was working. On enquiring if there
were any spare 13A plugs for his soldering iron, he was pointed
towards the SafeBloc. Some time later it was noticed that the
SafeBloc was still on the bench, but it no longer had its plug!

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:22:51 GMT, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

It was once possible to buy replacement coiled elements for
radiant fires.

Last one I installed was in 1992. It was suppllied with a packet of
nichrome hairpins, to tie it into the firebrick plates.

You can still buy these things of course, but now you need to go to a
kiln maker.

I can better that [I think]. In our museum of the odd and outright
dangerous [stuff we have brought in off jobs or condemned] we have
An original sleeved MK Plug complete with ivory plastic spring loaded
retractable live and neutral pin sleeves.

Indeed my parents still have a couple of appliances with those very plugs fitted.

Anyone got a pic?

Yes -
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3481.jpg

Eons earlier in this thread, someone mentioned a plug that fitted both 13A and round pin plugs & it
rang the vaguest of bells as I remember my Dad having one. Just found it - pics here :

"Fitall plug"

www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3486.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3487.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3488.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3489.jpg

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...

I can better that [I think]. In our museum of the odd and outright
dangerous [stuff we have brought in off jobs or condemned] we have
An original sleeved MK Plug complete with ivory plastic spring loaded
retractable live and neutral pin sleeves.

Indeed my parents still have a couple of appliances with those very
plugs fitted.

Anyone got a pic?

Yes -
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3481.jpg

Eons earlier in this thread, someone mentioned a plug that fitted both 13A
and round pin plugs & it
rang the vaguest of bells as I remember my Dad having one. Just found it -
pics here :

"Fitall plug"

www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3486.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3487.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3488.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3489.jpg

I like the last photo with all the pins deployed - looks a bit Irish to me
(apols)


John

In article ,
"john" writes:

I like the last photo with all the pins deployed - looks a bit Irish to me

In China, you can find the socket equivalent to this,
i.e. sockets which accept a wide range of different plugs.
India also has sockets which can accept both 5A and 15A
BS546 plugs.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:23:12 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

Alistair Riddell wrote:

The design of the 5 A round-pin plugs I bought recently for
centrally-switched table lamps in my living room does not appear to have
changed in the last 30+ years; they have unsleeved pins and still that
mysterious hole at the top by the earth pin...

Yes, the current version of BS 546 is still the 1950 edition. This must
be one of the oldest standards still in force.

What about the Earth Clamps to BS 95 (IIRC) or White Spriit to BS 60?
Or are the numbers not approximately chronological?

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message


Tim S wrote:


It was once possible to buy replacement coiled elements for
radiant fires. You simply removed the failed one, used a piece
of string to get the length and stretched the new one to suit.


We've still got some in the bowels of our stores!!!


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Mike Harrison wrote:

Eons earlier in this thread, someone mentioned a plug that fitted both 13A and round pin plugs & it
rang the vaguest of bells as I remember my Dad having one. Just found it - pics here :

"Fitall plug"

www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3486.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3487.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3488.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3489.jpg

That brings back memories. ISTR that they were really tricky to
wire up, and then get all the bits back in, only to find that you
had forgotten to thread the cable through the rubber cover ;-(

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Ed Sirett wrote:

What about the Earth Clamps to BS 95 (IIRC) or White Spriit to BS 60?

Earth clamps: current version is BS 951:1999 - original version was
1948, revised in '86.

White spirit: current version is BS 245:1976 - no earlier versions AFAICS.

BS 60 appears not to exist, not does BS 95.

Or are the numbers not approximately chronological?

The numbers were originally issued chronologically, but most with low
numbers have been revised many times since publication.

BS 4 (structural steel sections) and BS 12 (Portland cement) were in use
until relatively recently, but both have been superseded by ENs now.

Check for yourself at BS Online:
http://www.bsonline.bsi-global.com/server/index.jsp

--
Andy

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
Mike Harrison wrote:

Eons earlier in this thread, someone mentioned a plug that fitted both
13A and round pin plugs & it
rang the vaguest of bells as I remember my Dad having one. Just found
it - pics here :

"Fitall plug"

www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3486.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3487.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3488.jpg
www.electricstuff.co.uk/temp/img_3489.jpg

That brings back memories. ISTR that they were really tricky to
wire up, and then get all the bits back in, only to find that you
had forgotten to thread the cable through the rubber cover ;-(

Bugger, innit - nothing that a pair of cutters couldn't cure ...



Chris

--
geoff

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

re bayonet plugs

They, and many of the other innovative products described in
this thread, all became unavailable when it became illegal
to sell electrical products which don't conform to BS.
I presume there is no BS (or EN nowadays) for B22d plugs.

I still remember the 2A plug to 15A socket adaptor. But now I know why
it was home made!


NT

Jim Gregory wrote:

Remember wiring those in the late '60s. They rattled. Lots of loose pin
parts held in check by a perforated template, and you tapped on its shell to
loosen the three (or two) pins for the gauge you needed! Then you
"unscrewed" them outward, locked them with a 3-way lever! But had no fuse!!
They was marketed for running portable equipment when you were visiting
various premises but were unsure what wall socket types to find at the
destin. So catered for 3 or 4 common formats.
BS1363 13A oblong pin sockets took off reasonably quickly in industrial and
business premises, but stretched over three decades to become universal
domestically in UK.

This reminds me of a sqwuare pin plug I had not long ago that had odd
shaped pins, not
: __
: |__|

but
: __
: (__)

I dont remember what happened to it, probably got removed when the
plugs were changed to sleeved type.


NT

In article , Richard A Downing
wrote:

It would be
no problem to replace them, as I have a draw full of spare plugtops.


What is the use of just the tops?

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:59:18 +0000 someone who may be Nick Atty
wrote this:-

Similarly, it does baffle me (as someone with two small children in the
house) that I have to have shrouded pins, shutters on sockets and am
constantly deluged by DHS propaganda to put dummy plugs in sockets.

Yet at the end of the cable - for example for a laptop PSU - there is
often a small (cassette recorder style) two pin open socket, just right
to be unplugged and sucked.
Any AC mains socket flying lead with an is dangerous,


Or have a screwdriver/paperclip sized metal object stuck into the
unshuttered contacts.

A member of my family gave up experimenting with electricity a long
time ago. Electricity had not been installed in the house long (the
house being in Norway, two pin unshuttered sockets, 220V AC,
skirting board level) when he decided to see what would happen if he
put a knitting needle into the socket. The holes of these are
invitingly knitting needle size.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

When I was a youngster, about 55 years ago (we were then on 220V/100Hz), I
plugged a splayed metal hairclip into both holes of an inviting 2-pin wood +
ceramic + brass wall socket at home. A Big Flash and I recall I was sent
flying.
Must say....One of the more interesting and fascinating uk.d-i-y threads in
a long time!

Jim Gregory wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:59:18 +0000 someone who may be Nick Atty
wrote this:-


Similarly, it does baffle me (as someone with two small children in the
house) that I have to have shrouded pins, shutters on sockets and am
constantly deluged by DHS propaganda to put dummy plugs in sockets.

Yet at the end of the cable - for example for a laptop PSU - there is
often a small (cassette recorder style) two pin open socket, just right
to be unplugged and sucked.

Any AC mains socket flying lead with an is dangerous,

Reminds me of a story a friend told me about a place he worked. He was
in the workshop one day when the power went off. He walked back into
the office to see a colleague sat there with a dripping wet IEC lead in
hand dangling above his coffee. He looked sheepish and said "I just
wondered what would happen!"

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Richard A Downing
wrote:


It would be
no problem to replace them, as I have a draw full of spare plugtops.



What is the use of just the tops?


Oh dear...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Gregory wrote:

Remember wiring those in the late '60s. They rattled. Lots of loose pin
parts held in check by a perforated template, and you tapped on its shell
to
loosen the three (or two) pins for the gauge you needed! Then you
"unscrewed" them outward, locked them with a 3-way lever! But had no
fuse!!
They was marketed for running portable equipment when you were visiting
various premises but were unsure what wall socket types to find at the
destin. So catered for 3 or 4 common formats.
BS1363 13A oblong pin sockets took off reasonably quickly in industrial
and
business premises, but stretched over three decades to become universal
domestically in UK.

This reminds me of a sqwuare pin plug I had not long ago that had odd
shaped pins, not
: __
: |__|

but
: __
: (__)

I dont remember what happened to it, probably got removed when the
plugs were changed to sleeved type.


NT

Some specials were used in communal areas of premises, like hallways and
landings in flats, where the landlords allowed power consunption only for
cleaners and maintenance staff .
There was another restricted-use design where all oblong pins are oriented
90degs to the familiar 13A setup.

In article .com,
writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

re bayonet plugs

They, and many of the other innovative products described in
this thread, all became unavailable when it became illegal
to sell electrical products which don't conform to BS.
I presume there is no BS (or EN nowadays) for B22d plugs.

I still remember the 2A plug to 15A socket adaptor. But now I know why
it was home made!

A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
David Hansen writes:

Somewhere in the family is a 1944 Royal Navy gunnery handbook. It
illustrates a few points with cartoons. One of these has a cartoon
of a sailor with a long spark coming out of the ship and making
contact with his nose. His cap, hair, arms and legs are flying in
various directions and he has jumped above deck level. The caption
says not to disconnect electrical circuits.

Sounds like a warning specifically related to DC supplies.
With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches
on all our sockets today. By 1944, it's unlikely many if
any people still had DC supplies at home, so if they were
present on ships, people would have become unfamiliar with
their specific dangers.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:35 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

Did you go to York Uni too?

Tim

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:12:52 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Did you go to York Uni too?

Only at weekends - I think it was a friend of mine (Rob T. - early '80s)
who'd made most of those adapters.

I was at Hull. One hall of res had sockets in the rooms with tiny
sub-kettle breakers and electric fan heaters under a built-in wired
through real 13A sockets. There was a brisk trade in suitable extension
leads there too.

In article ,
Tim S writes:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:35 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

Did you go to York Uni too?

No, London, but I think they were pretty much all the same
in that respect.

The little hardware shop outside the hall of residence sold
the 2A plugs at several quid a shot. I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each, and they were very nice
robust Crabtree ones. I did the same next year, but I
couldn't get the nice Crabtree ones anymore, and ended up
with some rather inferior make, of which a few percent
broke when people fitted them, and I ended up slightly
out of pocket.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Nick Atty wrote:

No wonder growing up with this lot we look at Part P with disdain.
--

Except as we all know, Part P does absolutely nothing to address the
issues raised by the use of these sorts of plugs. So we can all
perfectly legally fit a FitAll plug (but presumably not buy one) but
are no longer allowed to get rid of unnecessary adapters in the kitchen
by adding a couple of new sockets. Nice one Mr Prescott.

Andrew

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Richard A Downing writes:

Have the regulations changed in this regard? For instance, unshrouded
L-N pins - I still have some of these in use (BS 1363/A). It would be
no problem to replace them, as I have a draw full of spare plugtops.

It's illegal to sell appliances fitted with BS 1363 plugs with
unshrouded pins (even second hand and at car boot sales), but

Electrical safety legislation only covers items sold in the course of a
business. For private sales it's buyer beware but the seller should at
least describe the item accurately.

Opinion confirmed by conversation with local trading standards.

MBQ