On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :
I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,

You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

Tony Bryer wrote:
On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :

I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,


You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g


I suspect he just enjoyed the fact that he was ****ing the shopkeeper off

In article .com,
writes:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
It's illegal to sell appliances fitted with BS 1363 plugs with
unshrouded pins (even second hand and at car boot sales), but

Electrical safety legislation only covers items sold in the course of a
business. For private sales it's buyer beware but the seller should at
least describe the item accurately.

Opinion confirmed by conversation with local trading standards.

You were wrongly advised.
The Plugs and Sockets (Safety) Regulations is very clear...

"No person shall supply, offer for supply, agree to supply,
expose for supply or possess for supply an electrical device
unless [...the plug conforms to BS1363 or the appliance isn't
a type which would ever be plugged in...]".

There are no exclusions for private or car boot sales.
This is actually at least a theoretical legal headache for
people selling electrical items of historic value only, which
are not being sold for real use, where the 1920's plug is an
important part of the historic value of the item.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Richard Conway writes:
Tony Bryer wrote:
On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :
I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,

You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g

This was before the days of people feeling they needed
to make money out of just about every they did (and back
in the days when students did get grants).

I suspect he just enjoyed the fact that he was ****ing the shopkeeper off

Possibly (although I doubt the shopkeeper ever knew).

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:48:29 +0000, "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)"
wrote:

It would be
no problem to replace them, as I have a draw full of spare plugtops.

What is the use of just the tops?

I know the BS has never been slow to call a spade a manual digging
apparatus, but where does this bizarre word "plugtop" originally come
from ? And what happens to all the plugbottoms?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:25:23 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

Somewhere in the family is a 1944 Royal Navy gunnery handbook. It
illustrates a few points with cartoons.

The Navy seems to have done these particularly well.

Best of the lot is a famous US Navy manual on bomb disposal (on the web
somewhere)

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Richard Conway writes:

Tony Bryer wrote:

On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :

I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,

You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g


This was before the days of people feeling they needed
to make money out of just about every they did (and back
in the days when students did get grants).


I suspect he just enjoyed the fact that he was ****ing the shopkeeper off


Possibly (although I doubt the shopkeeper ever knew).


Probably wondered why the product he'd made a fortune on last semester
had suddenly become unpopular!

I feel partly responsible for this thread being the second 'poster'
Problem, how can I view the latest postings wthout having to trawl
through all the posting dates! There's got to be a better way!


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:01:14 +0000 (UTC), "Grumpy owd man"
wrote:

|I feel partly responsible for this thread being the second 'poster'
|Problem, how can I view the latest postings wthout having to trawl
|through all the posting dates! There's got to be a better way!

Does your ISP give you a usenet newsserver address? If so, go to
www.forteinc.com and download Agent. If you don;t want to use
email, it will revert to a free news program only, - after 30
days.





--
Howard Coakley
e-mail... howarddot}coakleyatcoakleydot].codotuk
Skype ID: howie10 (get skype from www.skype.com)

In message , Tim S
writes
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:35 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

Did you go to York Uni too?

We used to go there and beat them up once a year

--
geoff

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Tim S writes:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:35 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

Did you go to York Uni too?

No, London, but I think they were pretty much all the same
in that respect.

The little hardware shop outside the hall of residence sold
the 2A plugs at several quid a shot. I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each, and they were very nice
robust Crabtree ones.

Where was your entrepreneurial spirit ?

--
geoff

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:01:14 +0000 (UTC), "Grumpy owd man"
wrote:

I feel partly responsible for this thread being the second 'poster'
Problem, how can I view the latest postings wthout having to trawl
through all the posting dates! There's got to be a better way!


Use proper news client software rather than accessing via a web based
method?

Most of them allow you to slice and dice and sort in numerous ways

--

..andy

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:07:07 UTC, Richard Conway wrote:

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Richard A Downing
wrote:


It would be
no problem to replace them, as I have a draw full of spare plugtops.

What is the use of just the tops?

Oh dear...

Indeed...not that again!

And what's a 'draw'....
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:19:28 UTC, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

There was another restricted-use design where all oblong pins are oriented
90degs to the familiar 13A setup.

was = is

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:56:47 UTC, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Sounds like a warning specifically related to DC supplies.
With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches
on all our sockets today. By 1944, it's unlikely many if
any people still had DC supplies at home, so if they were
present on ships, people would have become unfamiliar with
their specific dangers.

We had them in the 1950s, until approx 1956/57. (in Brighton)

I mentioned the rotary converter for my train set the other day. But I
also unplugged an electric fire once. Lots of newspaper and a chair
nearby, to be ignited by the arc.

I was really excited about the fire engine.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:12:52 UTC, Tim S wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:35 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


A 2A plug on a 4-way trailing 13A socket block was standard
student kit in my time. Providing no one else down my side of
the corridor was drawing much power, the 10A MCB for all the
2A sockets would handle boiling the kettle ;-)

Did you go to York Uni too?

We used them at Essex too.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:27:39 UTC, Richard Conway wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :

I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,


You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g

I suspect he just enjoyed the fact that he was ****ing the shopkeeper off

I did exactly the same at work a few years ago, with floppy disks.
Bought and sold at cost...at a fraction of what computing reception
charged. I do it every new academic year with ethernet cards now...they
want 12 quid a throw,

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:47:36 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes

That brings back memories. ISTR that they were really tricky to
wire up, and then get all the bits back in, only to find that you
had forgotten to thread the cable through the rubber cover ;-(

Bugger, innit - nothing that a pair of cutters couldn't cure ...

Are there any rubber covered plugs anywhere that don't now have a cut in
the bottom of the cable entry hole?
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

You were wrongly advised.
The Plugs and Sockets (Safety) Regulations is very clear...

"No person shall supply, offer for supply, agree to supply,
expose for supply or possess for supply an electrical device
unless [...the plug conforms to BS1363 or the appliance isn't
a type which would ever be plugged in...]".

Whoever drafted those regulations obviously didn't know (or care) about
Owains book but now plugs and sockets are enshrined in the law isn't it
about time to drop the plugtops description that only serves to confuse
the unwary?

Incidentally plugtop is so obscure that it hasn't made it into any of
the several dictionaries I have consulted. The closest any get is to say
that colloquially plug can be used to refer to an electric socket.

--
Roger Chapman

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:56:47 UTC, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Sounds like a warning specifically related to DC supplies.
With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches
on all our sockets today. By 1944, it's unlikely many if
any people still had DC supplies at home, so if they were
present on ships, people would have become unfamiliar with
their specific dangers.

We had them in the 1950s, until approx 1956/57. (in Brighton)

I mentioned the rotary converter for my train set the other day. But I
also unplugged an electric fire once. Lots of newspaper and a chair
nearby, to be ignited by the arc.

I was really excited about the fire engine.
--

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

Please explain "With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches on all our
sockets today."
IMO any feed switch when thrown to Off interrupts voltage and therefore
current.
I was told little old folk used to plug safety 13A blank moulds - to stop
the electrons
from tumbling out!
Jim

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:01:14 +0000 (UTC), "Grumpy owd man"
wrote:

| I feel partly responsible for this thread being the second 'poster'
| Problem, how can I view the latest postings wthout having to trawl
| through all the posting dates! There's got to be a better way!


Mailgate is a web based server which are the absolutely worst way to
read newsgroups. Get plug Agent /plug or any other newsreader,
Even Outlook Express spit is better than a web based server.
Subscribe to a *real* newsserver, like plug NIN, News.individual.net
/plug.

With a newsreader and a newserver you download new posts onto your own
machine, and you can set the newsreader so that you see only the posts
which have arrived since you last looked at that newsgroup.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:17:38 UTC, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:56:47 UTC, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:
Sounds like a warning specifically related to DC supplies.
With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches
on all our sockets today. By 1944, it's unlikely many if
any people still had DC supplies at home, so if they were
present on ships, people would have become unfamiliar with
their specific dangers.

We had them in the 1950s, until approx 1956/57. (in Brighton)

I mentioned the rotary converter for my train set the other day. But I
also unplugged an electric fire once. Lots of newspaper and a chair
nearby, to be ignited by the arc.

I was really excited about the fire engine.

Please explain "With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches on all our
sockets today."

If you read carefully, you'll see that *I* didn't say that. I'm sure
Andrew will explain.

IMO any feed switch when thrown to Off interrupts voltage and therefore
current.

Yes, but (in my example) I never turned off the switch first. I pulled
the plug, and current didn't stop flowing - it arced.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

Howie wrote:
"Grumpy owd man" wrote:
|I feel partly responsible for this thread being the second 'poster'
|Problem, how can I view the latest postings wthout having to trawl
|through all the posting dates! There's got to be a better way!
Does your ISP give you a usenet newsserver address? If so, go to
www.forteinc.com and download Agent.

..... or just install Thunderbird (free from www.mozilla.com).

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:17:38 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

Please explain "With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches on all our
sockets today."

IMO any feed switch when thrown to Off interrupts voltage and therefore
current.

Yes - but the question is what happens when you _don't_ switch it off
first.

AC drops to zero 100 times a second. Break the circuit (in any way) and
within 10mS the current will cease and the circuit is broken.

DC supply does not drop to zero - you have to arrange "switchgear" to do
this yourself, per appliance or socket. With a switch there's a
mechanical springines in there so that the contacts fly apart quickly,
soon breaking the circuit by a safe distance.

If however you unplug a DC appliance, the circuit is broken slowly and
there will be some arcing. If there's a large current flowing at the
time, this arcing can be severe. The usual hazard is gradual build-up of
burnt insulation, and burnt insulation is usually carbon - now a poor
conductor. This can heat up and cause a fire later. If you use an
under-rated (or AC) switch on DC then the arc may be so severe that it
forms a conductive arc across the open switch (arcs have low
resistances). You may not even be able to switch the circuit off!

AC is safer for all sorts of reasons. Unless you're an elephant, of
course.

In article ,
"Jim Gregory" writes:
Please explain "With DC, the current didn't stop flowing merely because
you pulled the plug out. That is the origin of the switches on all our
sockets today."
IMO any feed switch when thrown to Off interrupts voltage and therefore
current.

If you ionise air into a plasma (arc), it's actually quite a
good conductor. In the case of a DC supply, as Andy already
said, there's no regular interruption to the current to allow
the arc to quench.

The switches in DC sockets used fast-break toggle action with
two separating contacts (effectively doubles the separation
speed) with large contact gap to try and quench the arc the
arc before it ever gets a chance to establish. You are
unlikely to pull a plug out fast enough to achieve the same
effect.

BTW, if you never saw a switch arc across, try this MPEG...
http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/...0kV_Switch.mpg
This arc was entinguished by tripping an upstream breaker when
it reach ~100' long. There's a full description of the fault at
http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/...#500_kV_Switch
This is AC and only about 100A; DC would have been very much
worse.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:55:17 +0000 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

According to an electrical book I have, the plug is what goes on the
wall and the plugtop is what goes on the appliance. Quite possibly in
the early days of electricity the plug and plugtop were sold in pairs.

The term 'socket' is reserved for the brass thingies in the [sic] plug.

It must be a fairly old book. The 15th and 16th editions certainly
refer to plugs and socket-outlets. IIRC the 15th edition came out in
around 1980.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Nick Atty wrote:
Are there any rubber covered plugs anywhere that don't now have a cut in
the bottom of the cable entry hole?

Duraplugs made for the last N years.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Roger wrote:


The closest any get is to say that colloquially plug can be used to
refer to an electric socket.


Collins GEM English Dictionary
plug n. thing fitting into and filling a hole; device connecting an
appliance to an electricity supply;

--
*Don't byte off more than you can view *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Roger wrote:


The closest any get is to say that colloquially plug can be used to
refer to an electric socket.


Collins GEM English Dictionary
plug n. thing fitting into and filling a hole

Drivel's finger after an unfortunate hacksaw incident ???

; device connecting an
appliance to an electricity supply;


--
geoff

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:19:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Are there any rubber covered plugs anywhere that don't now have a cut in
the bottom of the cable entry hole?

Duraplugs made for the last N years.

They're _made_ that way. How many are still intact after they've been
fitted ?

In article ,
raden wrote:

Collins GEM English Dictionary
plug n. thing fitting into and filling a hole

Drivel's finger after an unfortunate hacksaw incident ???

Well, the pipe certainly didn't. ;-)

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Are there any rubber covered plugs anywhere that don't now have a cut
in the bottom of the cable entry hole?

Duraplugs made for the last N years.

They're _made_ that way. How many are still intact after they've been
fitted ?

I've got quite a few of the modern variety - nylon base and rubber cover
that doesn't need to be put on first. Used for power tools where the
makers haven't supplied a long enough flex, so I've changed it. And they
seem pretty bomb proof.

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:43:00 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

Indeed, though as a lad I used to build crystal sets and other radios,
connecting to the 'mains' earth using a single wire into a 13A plug would make
the reception come alive !

Did that ever work?

Yes very well, the house was (still is) fed by overhead line, so the
mains earth was connected to an earth rod outside.

Whenever I tried it, I just got deafening mains
hum. So I used the radiator pipework instead.

The mains was the only earthy thing I could easily use. We had electric
storage heating, I'd sometimes use that with a croc clip on the grill.

In article
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:27:39 UTC, Richard Conway wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
On 10 Jan 2006 15:38:21 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :

I bought 400 of them
and sold them at cost, 18p each,


You weren't doing Business Studies I presume? g

I suspect he just enjoyed the fact that he was ****ing the shopkeeper off

I did exactly the same at work a few years ago, with floppy disks.
Bought and sold at cost...at a fraction of what computing reception
charged. I do it every new academic year with ethernet cards now...they
want 12 quid a throw,


Blasted Bolshevik :-)

In article , Jim Gregory
wrote:

There was another restricted-use design where all oblong pins are
oriented 90degs to the familiar 13A setup.

Reminds me of the BC lamp bulbs with 3 locating pins instead of the
usual 2. No doubt to discourage employees from nicking the bulbs' The
extra cost of the specials must have been far more than the cost of a
few bulbs walking off site.

--
Mike Clarke

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:17 +0000, Mike Clarke
wrote:

Reminds me of the BC lamp bulbs with 3 locating pins instead of the
usual 2. No doubt to discourage employees from nicking the bulbs'

Weren't those (railway anyway) an odd voltage anyway?

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:41:11 UTC, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:17 +0000, Mike Clarke
wrote:

Reminds me of the BC lamp bulbs with 3 locating pins instead of the
usual 2. No doubt to discourage employees from nicking the bulbs'

Weren't those (railway anyway) an odd voltage anyway?

I think so...but I heard that the problem was that the people who stole
them didn't know that....so they stole them (once) anyway...
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

In article ,
"Bob Eager" writes:

Weren't those (railway anyway) an odd voltage anyway?

I think so...but I heard that the problem was that the people who stole
them didn't know that....so they stole them (once) anyway...

They used to be used to distinguish mercury vapour lamps
which needed external ballast from self-ballasted ones, in
streetlamps, to avoid unfortunate accidents.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Owain wrote:

Wall Plugs. A "wall plug," or "socket" as it is sometimes erroneously
called, consists of two parts - the socket or fixed part, the terminals
of which are permanently connected to the circuit wires, and the
moveable part, called the plug top which, by means of a flexible cord,
is connected to a table lamp, etc., ... (Private House Electric
Lighting, F H Taylor, 1917)

Nice :-)

--
Andy

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Owain wrote:

Wall Plugs. A "wall plug," or "socket" as it is sometimes erroneously
called, consists of two parts - the socket or fixed part, the terminals
of which are permanently connected to the circuit wires, and the moveable
part, called the plug top which, by means of a flexible cord, is
connected to a table lamp, etc., ... (Private House Electric Lighting, F
H Taylor, 1917)

Nice :-)

Plug top? I haven't heard that term in 20 years. When they were called
'wall plugs', then plug top made sense. Now it is 'socket', it sounds very
odd.