Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

"Dundonald" wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

Why does it matter if it is earthed! I can't believe people get so worked
up about these things. Why not call B&Q and discuss it if you know what
you're talking about. What sort of answer do you want and what do you want
from B&Q out of interest?

ron wrote:
"Dundonald" wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

Why does it matter if it is earthed! I can't believe people get so worked
up about these things. Why not call B&Q and discuss it if you know what
you're talking about. What sort of answer do you want and what do you want
from B&Q out of interest?

Because to put it quite frankly B&Q ballsed up the installation, so I'm
gathering all appropriate evidence against them to make my case. One
of the issues that I had with them was the fact that they didn't earth
the bath. I couldn't believe it. When they came back around to
complete my snag list, the plumber tried to earth from the bath using
the metal leg - fine, but there was a sheaf of plastic between the
metal leg and the tin bath!
Comical, absolultely comical.

So, if B&Q did have to issue me a Part P cert and didn't, it's another
string to my bow. The problem I have is I can't find a website that
will allow me to identify what Part P is limited to.

Thanks.

In message .com,
Dundonald writes
Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Certainly - you had a bathroom installed by B & Q

Sectioned, more like

--
geoff

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:09:31 -0800, Dundonald wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to
a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where
B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary
cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors)
is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special
location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should
have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building
Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a
bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll
serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new
fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

You could ask over he

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/cate...205&entercat=y

Lots of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you
should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:16:36 GMT, "ron" wrote:

Why does it matter if it is earthed! I can't believe people get so worked
up about these things. Why not call B&Q and discuss it if you know what
you're talking about. What sort of answer do you want and what do you want
from B&Q out of interest?

Hey ron, to save a lot of updating of killfiles, could you please either
start posting from diybanter or else change your username to ::ron::

Thanks

Andy Dingley wrote:
"ron" wrote:
[snip]

Hey ron, to save a lot of updating of killfiles, could you please either
start posting from diybanter or else change your username to ::ron::

AAMOI what does that do, in the "diybanter" context (or am I being
dim again)?

Tim,

Tim S wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:09:31 -0800, Dundonald wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to
a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where
B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green /
yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal
pipework supplying the said tin bath.

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary
cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors)
is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special
location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin
point that exact piece of regulation.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should
have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building
Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a
bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll
serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new
fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath
would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he
almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the
tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been
advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

You could ask over he

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/cate...205&entercat=y

Lots of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you
should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

Tim S wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:09:31 -0800, Dundonald wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to
a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where
B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary
cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors)
is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special
location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should
have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building
Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a
bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll
serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new
fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

You could ask over he

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/cate...205&entercat=y

Lots of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you
should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

Tim,

Tim S wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:09:31 -0800, Dundonald wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to
a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where
B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green /
yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal
pipework supplying the said tin bath.

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary
cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors)
is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special
location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin
point that exact piece of regulation.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should
have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building
Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a
bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll
serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new
fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath
would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he
almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the
tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been
advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

You could ask over he

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/cate...205&entercat=y

Lots of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you
should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

Tim,

Tim S wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:09:31 -0800, Dundonald wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to
a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where
B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green /
yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal
pipework supplying the said tin bath.

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary
cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors)
is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special
location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin
point that exact piece of regulation.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should
have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building
Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a
bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll
serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new
fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath
would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he
almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the
tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been
advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

You could ask over he

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/cate...205&entercat=y

Lots of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you
should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

In message .com,
"Dundonald" wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Yes. This work is supplementary bonding and in a "special location"
(e.g. a bathroom) supplementary bonding is notifiable to Building
Control. It's quite likely that the fitters won't have left you with any
paperwork, but you should be getting a notice of compliance directly
from BC as soon as BC has been notified by them. I believe that the
turnaround time could be anything up to about 8 weeks.

Although B&Q didn't install any lighting or other electrics, assuming
that there is already a light in the bathroom and given the fact that
they have made some attempt at supp. bonding the bath and pipework, they
should also have run a supp. bonding wire to the lighting circuit. This
is the killer in many places as it is often impossible to run a wire up
to the lights from the pipes without making it obvious somewhere along
the run :-(

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Making sense of technology: http://www.livtech.co.uk/
.... Hard work never killed anyone but why take a risk?

Martin Angove - thanks for your post affirming that certification is
required. Indeed I also checked the forums from iee.org and a few
people helped there also. For those who may search in future times for
a similar answer, here's a link to the thread.

http://www.iee.org/forums/forum/mess...nterthrea d=y

Thanks for all your help!

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:29:02 GMT, Martin Angove
wrote:

In message .com,
"Dundonald" wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Yes. This work is supplementary bonding and in a "special location"
(e.g. a bathroom) supplementary bonding is notifiable to Building
Control. It's quite likely that the fitters won't have left you with any
paperwork, but you should be getting a notice of compliance directly
from BC as soon as BC has been notified by them. I believe that the
turnaround time could be anything up to about 8 weeks.

Although B&Q didn't install any lighting or other electrics, assuming
that there is already a light in the bathroom and given the fact that
they have made some attempt at supp. bonding the bath and pipework, they
should also have run a supp. bonding wire to the lighting circuit. This
is the killer in many places as it is often impossible to run a wire up
to the lights from the pipes without making it obvious somewhere along
the run :-(

Hwyl!

M.

So the lighting earth is connected directly to the pipes?

What size cable is used? Most of it seems thick enough to use in
engineering construction work or a power station.

In message ,
EricP wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:29:02 GMT, Martin Angove
wrote:

In message .com,
"Dundonald" wrote:

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics,
i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install
a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Yes. This work is supplementary bonding and in a "special location"
(e.g. a bathroom) supplementary bonding is notifiable to Building
Control. It's quite likely that the fitters won't have left you with any
paperwork, but you should be getting a notice of compliance directly
from BC as soon as BC has been notified by them. I believe that the
turnaround time could be anything up to about 8 weeks.

Although B&Q didn't install any lighting or other electrics, assuming
that there is already a light in the bathroom and given the fact that
they have made some attempt at supp. bonding the bath and pipework, they
should also have run a supp. bonding wire to the lighting circuit. This
is the killer in many places as it is often impossible to run a wire up
to the lights from the pipes without making it obvious somewhere along
the run :-(

Hwyl!

M.

So the lighting earth is connected directly to the pipes?

Yes. And the earth of any other power circuit within the "zones"
(which in practice usually means the whole bathroom). The idea is to
connect any and all possible routes to earth together such that if one
of them becomes "live" so do all the others meaning that there is no
potential difference between them meaning that no current can flow if
you happen to be holding (say) a tap when (say) the radiator becomes
live.

Note other current threads making the point that metal fittings fed by
plastic pipes must not (normally) be earthed.

What size cable is used? Most of it seems thick enough to use in
engineering construction work or a power station.

2.5mm2 is all that is required if it is completely mechanically
protected. Since that is practically impossible, most people seem to use
4mm2 or 6mm2. Getting 6mm2 G&Y cable into a ceiling rose is something of
an art. Even 4mm2 is difficult.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Making sense of technology: http://www.livtech.co.uk/
.... Do unto others JUST BEFORE they do unto you!