Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:

Our builder has (unusually?) told us that he's happy to erect our new
conservatory
over the Christmas holiday period, providing that the brickwork can of
course be
put in place by then.

This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space. I've
never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.

Being careful with the pennies, I was thinking of adding a two-port
valve to the feed
for these radiators, and then controlling this valve from (say) some
sort of timer
such as an immersion-heater-booster device as per shown on the TLC web
site
he
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_2/index.html

Prior to using the space, I merely press the button for (say) a
two-hour duration and this
opens the valve for that time.
I'll leave the house stat to decide whether the boiler needs fired, and
also I'll add
Thermostatic Radiator Valves to the three radiators too.

Of course, this arrangement does not guarantee that the boiler will
fire when the
conservatory needs it, but I'm hoping that that will not be a problem
(fingers crossed;
this is where your opinion is sought).

Instead of fancy Frost Stats I was thinking of adding an electric panel
radiator to
the conservatory whose thermostat is set quite low.
Thus when the outside temperature plummets and there is a risk of the
conservatory
radiators freezing, the electric panel cuts in and lifts the
temperature to avoid this.

Perhaps another immersion-heater-booster switch could be wired to
override the
thermostat to kick the electric panel in if required.

Any problems with my scheme?

Any source of an electric-booster switch with more flexibility than
that shown on
the TLC site?

Advice requested; thanks in advance.

Mungo

On 4 Dec 2005 12:12:00 -0800, wrote:

Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:

Our builder has (unusually?) told us that he's happy to erect our new
conservatory
over the Christmas holiday period, providing that the brickwork can of
course be
put in place by then.

This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space. I've
never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.

Being careful with the pennies, I was thinking of adding a two-port
valve to the feed
for these radiators, and then controlling this valve from (say) some
sort of timer
such as an immersion-heater-booster device as per shown on the TLC web
site
he
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_2/index.html

Prior to using the space, I merely press the button for (say) a
two-hour duration and this
opens the valve for that time.
I'll leave the house stat to decide whether the boiler needs fired, and
also I'll add
Thermostatic Radiator Valves to the three radiators too.

Of course, this arrangement does not guarantee that the boiler will
fire when the
conservatory needs it, but I'm hoping that that will not be a problem
(fingers crossed;
this is where your opinion is sought).

This meets the building regulation requirements in that there is
separate control for the conservatory.

In effect here, you are connecting the new zone valve in series. I
can see that it might be easier than running pipes all the way back to
the existing diverter or zone valves.

You might get away with this approach (mostly) if you arrange for the
conservatory to reach temperature before the rest of the house.
This could be achieved by oversizing the conservatory radiators (may
not be possible in the space) or by deliberately distorting the system
balance so that the bulk of the heating water goes to the conservatory
radiators and then to the house when the conservatory is warm. The
trouble is that the time for the house to warm up may then be quite
long and variable.




Instead of fancy Frost Stats I was thinking of adding an electric panel
radiator to
the conservatory whose thermostat is set quite low.
Thus when the outside temperature plummets and there is a risk of the
conservatory
radiators freezing, the electric panel cuts in and lifts the
temperature to avoid this.

Perhaps another immersion-heater-booster switch could be wired to
override the
thermostat to kick the electric panel in if required.

Any problems with my scheme?

Any source of an electric-booster switch with more flexibility than
that shown on
the TLC site?

Advice requested; thanks in advance.

Mungo

--

..andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:

Our builder has (unusually?) told us that he's happy to erect our new
conservatory
over the Christmas holiday period, providing that the brickwork can of
course be
put in place by then.

This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space.
I've never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.

Being careful with the pennies, I was thinking of adding a two-port
valve to the feed
for these radiators, and then controlling this valve from (say) some
sort of timer
such as an immersion-heater-booster device as per shown on the TLC web
site
he

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_2/index.html

Prior to using the space, I merely press the button for (say) a
two-hour duration and this
opens the valve for that time.
I'll leave the house stat to decide whether the boiler needs fired,
and also I'll add
Thermostatic Radiator Valves to the three radiators too.

Of course, this arrangement does not guarantee that the boiler will
fire when the
conservatory needs it, but I'm hoping that that will not be a problem
(fingers crossed;
this is where your opinion is sought).

Instead of fancy Frost Stats I was thinking of adding an electric
panel radiator to
the conservatory whose thermostat is set quite low.
Thus when the outside temperature plummets and there is a risk of the
conservatory
radiators freezing, the electric panel cuts in and lifts the
temperature to avoid this.

Perhaps another immersion-heater-booster switch could be wired to
override the
thermostat to kick the electric panel in if required.

Any problems with my scheme?

Any source of an electric-booster switch with more flexibility than
that shown on
the TLC site?

Advice requested; thanks in advance.

Mungo

How is the existing heating system zoned? If you already have an S-Plan
system, you could add another zone - but you'd have to connect in at the
current split point rather than tapping into an existing heating zone. You
could then use the secondary contacts on the new zone valve to bring the
boiler (and pump) on when required - independently of the other zones.

I would control the valve with a programmable room stat such as the
Honeywell CM67. This acts as a frost stat in its 'off' state and will turn
the heating on in the zone it controls when necessary to prevent freezing.
You can normally leave it on a low setting, and then use it's 'party'
setting when you want it hotter for a period. This lets you specify a higher
(or lower!) temperature for a specified number of hours.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Ta to Set and Andy for their replies.

Conventional arrangement in the house: hot tank upstairs with
thermostat;
programmable thermostat in hall downstairs; three-port diverter valve
midships in
the house.
The conservatory will be tacked on to a gable wall - the route from the
existing
three-port valve locus to the gable end would be tortuous (not
impossible, but just
outside my "contemplated" range just now! :-)

Mungo

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:

Our builder has (unusually?) told us that he's happy to erect our new
conservatory
over the Christmas holiday period, providing that the brickwork can of
course be
put in place by then.

This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space. I've
never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.

Being careful with the pennies, I was thinking of adding a two-port
valve to the feed
for these radiators, and then controlling this valve from (say) some
sort of timer
such as an immersion-heater-booster device as per shown on the TLC web
site
he

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ersion_Heater_
Timers_2/index.html

Prior to using the space, I merely press the button for (say) a
two-hour duration and this
opens the valve for that time.
I'll leave the house stat to decide whether the boiler needs fired, and
also I'll add
Thermostatic Radiator Valves to the three radiators too.

Of course, this arrangement does not guarantee that the boiler will
fire when the
conservatory needs it, but I'm hoping that that will not be a problem
(fingers crossed;
this is where your opinion is sought).

Instead of fancy Frost Stats I was thinking of adding an electric panel
radiator to
the conservatory whose thermostat is set quite low.
Thus when the outside temperature plummets and there is a risk of the
conservatory
radiators freezing, the electric panel cuts in and lifts the
temperature to avoid this.

Perhaps another immersion-heater-booster switch could be wired to
override the
thermostat to kick the electric panel in if required.

Any problems with my scheme?

Any source of an electric-booster switch with more flexibility than
that shown on
the TLC site?

Advice requested; thanks in advance.

Mungo

Don't put rads in. Install a dedicated Myson fan convector heater.
http://www.myson.co.uk/hiline.htm
http://www.myson.co.uk/slimline.htm

You probably could take this off the rad circuit. You may want to fit a pump
with non-return valve in front of the pump, just for the unit to get the
flow. Have an external stat which switches on the fan and pump.

This is far better than rads.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Ta to Set and Andy for their replies.

Conventional arrangement in the house: hot tank upstairs with
thermostat;
programmable thermostat in hall downstairs; three-port diverter valve
midships in
the house.
The conservatory will be tacked on to a gable wall - the route from
the existing
three-port valve locus to the gable end would be tortuous (not
impossible, but just
outside my "contemplated" range just now! :-)

Mungo

OK then, Plan B!

I assume that CH is set to Constant on the programmer and *actually* timed
by the programmable stat in the hall?

If so, how does this grab you? Have a programmable stat in the conservatory
to control your new zone valve. Wire the secondary contacts of this zone
valve in parallel with the prog.stat in the hall. Then, whenever the
conservatory is calling for heat, it will bring on the house heating even if
it isn't otherwise scheduled to be on. If the house rads have got TRVs,
having to have the house heating on to heat the conservatory shouldn't be
too much of a problem.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On 4 Dec 2005 12:12:00 -0800, wrote:


Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.

When sizing the radiators bear in mind a double glazed conservatory
will have a heat loss about 8 times greater than a house room of the
same size. Basically your conservatory requires as much heat as the
rest of the house in total to maintain the same temperature. You
might find fan assisted radiators useful as they get the temperature
up somewhat quicker.

Prior to using the space, I merely press the button for (say) a
two-hour duration and this opens the valve for that time.

Depending upon the temperature you want to achieve you will need to
plan ahead by 2 hours or more anyway!

I'll leave the house stat to decide whether the boiler needs fired,

If the house is warm and the conservatory cold this isn't going to
produce any heat.

also I'll add Thermostatic Radiator Valves to the three radiators too.

Bit of a waste, you would be better putting a single thermostat in
the conservatory controlling the heating to it.

Of course, this arrangement does not guarantee that the boiler will
fire when the conservatory needs it, but I'm hoping that that will not be a problem

It will be as the heat loss from the conservatory is vastly greater
than the heat loss from anywhere else in the house.

Instead of fancy Frost Stats I was thinking of adding an electric panel
radiator to the conservatory whose thermostat is set quite low.
Thus when the outside temperature plummets and there is a risk of the
conservatory radiators freezing, the electric panel cuts in and lifts the
temperature to avoid this.

Unless you leave it unheated for days on end in very frosty weather
it's unlikely the radiators would ever freeze as even in winter
conservatories collect enough solar gain to keep above freezing. A
better, and cheaper, solution would be to put a frost stat across
your push to start switch.



--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On 4 Dec 2005 13:59:01 -0800, wrote:

Ta to Set and Andy for their replies.

Conventional arrangement in the house: hot tank upstairs with
thermostat;
programmable thermostat in hall downstairs; three-port diverter valve
midships in
the house.
The conservatory will be tacked on to a gable wall - the route from the
existing
three-port valve locus to the gable end would be tortuous (not
impossible, but just
outside my "contemplated" range just now! :-)

Mungo

Plan C......


This is a bit more work than SS's plan B and assumes that the boiler
is closer to the conservatory.

Change the diverter valve to 2 two port valves.

Move the pump to a point closer to the boiler - taking account of feed
and vent pipes if an open vented system.

Connect conservatory circuit via zone valve to a point close to the
pump.

If you give this some thought in the initial stages, you might be able
to do a part job to begin with (like you planned) that is easy to
migrate later.



--

..andy

In message .com,
writes
Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:
[snip]
This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space. I've
never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.
[snip]

I don't know the size/makeup of your proposed conservatory, but please
bear the following in mind....

In our 2.5m x 7m conservatory, using our radio thermostat (cm67), it
could take up to four hours to get the conservatory to a reasonable temp
(not warm, just liveable). That's with a nice big double rad in there.

During those fours hours, the boiler would be running non stop. If you
fancied just popping in there of an evening at this time of year...
forget it. On a seperate note, the rest of the house would be cooking at
the time.

In the end we bought a 1.8Kw ceramic fan assisted heater from Argos (30
quid) and it now takes 10 to 15 minutes to bring it up to 22 degrees
(our stat temperature in the house).

To be honest, I think using one of them 'as and when' may be your better
bet.
Someone

"somebody" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
writes
Hi Folks,
Just mumbling out loud here to see what others think:
[snip]
This has caused me to think seriously about heating the new space. I've
never owned
a conservatory before, so it's all new to me.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory
and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.
[snip]

I don't know the size/makeup of your proposed conservatory, but please
bear the following in mind....

In our 2.5m x 7m conservatory, using our radio thermostat (cm67), it
could take up to four hours to get the conservatory to a reasonable temp
(not warm, just liveable). That's with a nice big double rad in there.

During those fours hours, the boiler would be running non stop. If you
fancied just popping in there of an evening at this time of year...
forget it. On a seperate note, the rest of the house would be cooking at
the time.

In the end we bought a 1.8Kw ceramic fan assisted heater from Argos (30
quid) and it now takes 10 to 15 minutes to bring it up to 22 degrees
(our stat temperature in the house).

To be honest, I think using one of them 'as and when' may be your better
bet.
Someone

That is why it is best to use a Myson Fan convector heater, they can pour
out up to 9kW. Circulating air is the best method in a conservatory as
convection just rises to the glass ceiling and the heat floats out the top.
But it must have water flow through it. Tapping into 15mm rad pipes at the
end of a line will not be good enough. Installing a pump just on the fan
convector increasing the water flow through the heater is an option.

Present proposition is to add three wall radiators to the dwarf-walled
conservatory and run these off my mains gas wet central heating system.
(...)

OK, but replace the timer with a programmable thermostat. This mean that you
needn't bother with TRVs and you have much better control of temperature.
Finally rather than radiators, consider a fan convector. These are superb
for conservatories because they are a fraction of the size of radiators and
can heat the room up in a fraction of the time, making it very suitable for
an hour boost etc.

I would recommend a Myson Hiline above the door, so it doesn't waste
valuable wall or floor space at all.

I wouldn't bother with the electric heater. However, if you are worried
about frost protection, stick a frost thermostat in there which turns on
your boiler/pump. Almost any programmable thermostat will have built in
frost protection and will already be calling for heat for the conservatory,
so the zone valve will already be open.

Christian.

Many thanks for all the kind replies to my query.

As I said in my opening gambit, I have no experience of owning a
conservatory hence
I am torn between wanting to install sufficient heating facilities
(just in case the
new room is well used all the year round) versus not wanting to have
added a
"heat sink" to the house to waste valuable pennies when the room is not
in use!

I know, I'm being awkward. I'm just hedging my bets.

Having read all the generous replies I'm now swithering over delaying a
full installation
for a season or two and just relying on an electric fan-assisted heater
meantime.

Thus if the room gets well used (beyond the initial "novelty" stage) I
can
trade up to the thoughtful suggestions outlined by the repliers above,
or chicken
out and leave it with fan-assisted heating.

Not trying to irk the group's kindness, but I may take some days
mulling this
over and might revisit the topic later.

Regards

Mungo

wrote in message
ups.com...
Many thanks for all the kind replies to my query.

As I said in my opening gambit, I have no experience of owning a
conservatory hence
I am torn between wanting to install sufficient heating facilities
(just in case the
new room is well used all the year round) versus not wanting to have
added a
"heat sink" to the house to waste valuable pennies when the room is not
in use!

I know, I'm being awkward. I'm just hedging my bets.

Having read all the generous replies I'm now swithering over delaying a
full installation
for a season or two and just relying on an electric fan-assisted heater
meantime.

Thus if the room gets well used (beyond the initial "novelty" stage) I
can
trade up to the thoughtful suggestions outlined by the repliers above,
or chicken
out and leave it with fan-assisted heating.

Not trying to irk the group's kindness, but I may take some days
mulling this
over and might revisit the topic later.

With a Myson fan heater it is a quickish heat up and when turned off no
heat, unlike UFH and rads.

On 5 Dec 2005 14:15:22 -0800, wrote:

Many thanks for all the kind replies to my query.


Having read all the generous replies I'm now swithering over delaying a
full installation
for a season or two and just relying on an electric fan-assisted heater
meantime.

Thus if the room gets well used (beyond the initial "novelty" stage) I
can
trade up to the thoughtful suggestions outlined by the repliers above,
or chicken
out and leave it with fan-assisted heating.

Not trying to irk the group's kindness, but I may take some days
mulling this
over and might revisit the topic later.


Actually, I think that that makes a lot of sense.

Obviously the cost of electric heating is relatively high. OTOH, it
is an easy way to determine exactly what heat is required and when.

What you may want to do is to provision pipework as the build is done,
so that you can add later.


--

..andy

Thanks Andy.
I was always planning to build some sort of "trap" access into the
floor of the
conservatory (away from the normal foot traffic) just in case there is
a need at a later
date to run another cable or so.
I'll now also drill a couple of holes through the gable wall for any
future
pipework.

Regards

Mungo

On 5 Dec 2005 14:15:22 -0800, wrote:

Many thanks for all the kind replies to my query.

As I said in my opening gambit, I have no experience of owning a
conservatory hence
I am torn between wanting to install sufficient heating facilities
(just in case the
new room is well used all the year round) versus not wanting to have
added a
"heat sink" to the house to waste valuable pennies when the room is not
in use!

I know, I'm being awkward. I'm just hedging my bets.

Having read all the generous replies I'm now swithering over delaying a
full installation
for a season or two and just relying on an electric fan-assisted heater
meantime.

Thus if the room gets well used (beyond the initial "novelty" stage) I
can
trade up to the thoughtful suggestions outlined by the repliers above,
or chicken
out and leave it with fan-assisted heating.

Not trying to irk the group's kindness, but I may take some days
mulling this
over and might revisit the topic later.

IME if the house is on the small side and you have kids it WILL get
used or cost some sanity not to! If not and you have equally usable
space for dining/lounge etc it's not so bad.

Maybe get a £12 plug in meter from Maplin to monitor how much elec.
the heater is using, bearing in it will cost the same as using gas for
the next 4 years (electric being ~4x the cost of gas).

cheers,
Pete.