I'm in the process of converting two kitchen cupboards into a downstairs
toilet. I've knocked through a new doorway from the hall and I am now
going to block off the cupboard doors and knock the two cupboards into
one.

The two doors are next to each other with only the thickness of the
(soon to be removed) dividing wall between them. Originally I planned to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the plasterboard.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

TIA,

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of converting two kitchen cupboards into a downstairs
toilet. I've knocked through a new doorway from the hall and I am now
going to block off the cupboard doors and knock the two cupboards into
one.

The two doors are next to each other with only the thickness of the
(soon to be removed) dividing wall between them. Originally I planned to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

Stud partition wall might be easier, but a block wall, rendered and skimmed
would be better IMO.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the plasterboard.

A stud wall will carry the weight (especially if you use something like 4" x
2"). With regards to fixing the wall units, the best thing to do is to work
out the approximate locations of the units and fit sufficient 4" x 2"
'noggin' in those areas to screw the units to and then plasterboard the
studding as normal.

I wouldn't recommend using just the plasterboard for unit fitting as there
is very little sterngth in that. What you could do, is use a reduced
thickness nogin method in the fixing area and then screw some plywood to
this and then carry out plasterboarding as normal.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

No matter what sound insulation you place between the studding, noise will
travel through the wall via the studs that the plasterboard is nailed to.
If want a high level of noise insulation, then you build two stud walls with
something like a two to four inch gap between them and then fill that gap
entirely with (I believe) a 'dense' type of insulation.

Hope this is of some use Paul?


Brian G

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of converting two kitchen cupboards into a downstairs
toilet. I've knocked through a new doorway from the hall and I am now
going to block off the cupboard doors and knock the two cupboards into
one.

The two doors are next to each other with only the thickness of the
(soon to be removed) dividing wall between them. Originally I planned to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the plasterboard.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

Install Rockwool bats in the space. Nice and tight. Use Fermacell
plasterboard. It is pre-finished and similar to MDF:
http://www.fermacell.co.uk/ No plastering, use a type of filler to fill the
gaps and holes. It screws to the studs

Doctor Drivel Wrote:
"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of converting two kitchen cupboards into a
downstairs
toilet. I've knocked through a new doorway from the hall and I am now
going to block off the cupboard doors and knock the two cupboards
into
one.

The two doors are next to each other with only the thickness of the
(soon to be removed) dividing wall between them. Originally I planned
to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but
a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to
utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of
the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the
plasterboard.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition
to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

Install Rockwool bats in the space. Nice and tight. Use Fermacell
plasterboard. It is pre-finished and similar to MDF:
http://www.fermacell.co.uk/ No plastering, use a type of filler to
fill the
gaps and holes. It screws to the studs

Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't take
you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate. You'll need to
tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on "furfix" type
profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always dry line it,
again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.


--
Nick H

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Paul Giverin wrote:
I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

IIRC 2 thicknesses of plasterboard are usually used on each side of such
walls. This work will be subject to Building Regulations, which address
sound transmission between rooms - have you asked your BCO for guidance
on this matter?

Fermacell and rockwool bats more than cover sound transmission.

Paul Giverin wrote:
Originally I planned to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the plasterboard.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

Yes. Use blocks.

Paul,
I posted this quite recently..........
2.
Nov 24, 7:56 pm show options

Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
From: - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Nov 2005 11:56:27 -0800
Local: Thurs, Nov 24 2005 7:56 pm
Subject: Help! Wall insulation
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Remove | Report Abuse

Danny,
I posted this just recently...............
Just thought I'd share this info with everyone. I've just added a
Dormer to a new upstairs room. Basically 4" x 2" (95mm x 45mm) stud
walls. I've 'stuffed' it with the following insulation called Rocksilk
by Knauf. The spec. sheet gives the following details...

UNIVERSAL SLAB RS45
Thickness 100mm (I have also used 75mm)

Length: 1200mm
Width: 600mm
Area per pack (m^2): 3.6
Lamda (W/mK): 0.035
R Value (m^2K/W): 2.85
Fire ClassSlabs per Pack: A1
Slabs per Pallet: 5
Product Code: 2361392

The price for one pack from Sheffield Insulations in Aberdeen
was £32. So that's nearly £10 per square metre. Quite expensive for
what it is.
It is good to work with, easily cut with a breadknife. Just
cut it about a quarter inch oversize and push between the studs.

Regarding the hanging of cabinets, why not insert a couple of
horizontal studs at the correct height while you are in there. Or you
could fit a decorative Dado type rail under the cabinets to take some
of the weight.

Chris.

In message , Nick H
writes

Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't take
you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate. You'll need to
tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on "furfix" type
profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always dry line it,
again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.


Thanks Nick for the advice and thanks to everyone else for their input.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I initially
thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a mixer and then
have the wall rendered and plastered on both sides. A stud wall would
have just required a skim but I suppose the cost of the timber,
plasterboard, plywood (if needed for strength) and sound insulation
would probably cost just as much.

I've not done a lot of bricklaying (brick BBQ's and other garden
projects) but I'm sure I'll be fine if I take it slowly.

Thanks again.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

Wrote:
Paul,
I posted this quite recently..........
2.
Nov 24, 7:56 pm show options

Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
From: - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Nov 2005 11:56:27 -0800
Local: Thurs, Nov 24 2005 7:56 pm
Subject: Help! Wall insulation
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Remove | Report Abuse

Danny,
I posted this just recently...............
Just thought I'd share this info with everyone. I've just added a
Dormer to a new upstairs room. Basically 4" x 2" (95mm x 45mm) stud
walls. I've 'stuffed' it with the following insulation called
Rocksilk
by Knauf. The spec. sheet gives the following details...

UNIVERSAL SLAB RS45
Thickness 100mm (I have also used 75mm)

Length: 1200mm
Width: 600mm
Area per pack (m^2): 3.6
Lamda (W/mK): 0.035
R Value (m^2K/W): 2.85
Fire ClassSlabs per Pack: A1
Slabs per Pallet: 5
Product Code: 2361392

The price for one pack from Sheffield Insulations in Aberdeen
was £32. So that's nearly £10 per square metre. Quite expensive for
what it is.
It is good to work with, easily cut with a breadknife. Just
cut it about a quarter inch oversize and push between the studs.

Regarding the hanging of cabinets, why not insert a couple of
horizontal studs at the correct height while you are in there. Or you
could fit a decorative Dado type rail under the cabinets to take some
of the weight.

Chris.

Why not stop pi**ing about and do a proper job with blocks ?


--
Nick H

"Nick H" wrote in message
. ..

Doctor Drivel Wrote:
"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of converting two kitchen cupboards into a
downstairs
toilet. I've knocked through a new doorway from the hall and I am now
going to block off the cupboard doors and knock the two cupboards
into
one.

The two doors are next to each other with only the thickness of the
(soon to be removed) dividing wall between them. Originally I planned
to
fill the double door size with breeze blocks to form a solid wall but
a
friend convinced me that a stud wall would be a lot easier.

My only concern is that some time in the future I will need to
utilise
this new wall space for wall mounted kitchen units to recover some of
the lost space from the old built in cupboards. I'm worried about
hanging these units on a stud wall. One friend has recommended fixing
18mm plywood sheeting under the plasterboard on the kitchen side of
the
stud wall. Another friend has said that this is an overkill and that
with the correct fixings, I should be fine with just the
plasterboard.

I'd appreciate a few more opinions please.

I'd also like to use some sort of sound insulation in the partition
to
ensure that we don't hear people using the loo from the kitchen. Any
recommendations?

Install Rockwool bats in the space. Nice and tight. Use Fermacell
plasterboard. It is pre-finished and similar to MDF:
http://www.fermacell.co.uk/ No plastering, use a type of filler to
fill the
gaps and holes. It screws to the studs

Personally i'd go with a block wall.

Studs and Fermacell means wet trades. Kitchen cabinets can be hung off
Fermacell.

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
In message , Nick H
writes

Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't take
you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate. You'll need to
tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on "furfix" type
profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always dry line it,
again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.


Thanks Nick for the advice and thanks to everyone else for their input.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength

No.

and for sound insulation.

No. Fermacell each side a dense bats will equal a block. Fermacell requires
no skimming. No wet skills at all required.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Studs and Fermacell means wet trades.

What on earth are you talking about, fool?

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Studs and Fermacell means wet trades.

He must have watched Ballamory this morning.

"Nick H" wrote in message
. ..

Wrote:
Paul,
I posted this quite recently..........
2.
Nov 24, 7:56 pm show options

Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
From: - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Nov 2005 11:56:27 -0800
Local: Thurs, Nov 24 2005 7:56 pm
Subject: Help! Wall insulation
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Remove | Report Abuse

Danny,
I posted this just recently...............
Just thought I'd share this info with everyone. I've just added a
Dormer to a new upstairs room. Basically 4" x 2" (95mm x 45mm) stud
walls. I've 'stuffed' it with the following insulation called
Rocksilk
by Knauf. The spec. sheet gives the following details...

UNIVERSAL SLAB RS45
Thickness 100mm (I have also used 75mm)

Length: 1200mm
Width: 600mm
Area per pack (m^2): 3.6
Lamda (W/mK): 0.035
R Value (m^2K/W): 2.85
Fire ClassSlabs per Pack: A1
Slabs per Pallet: 5
Product Code: 2361392

The price for one pack from Sheffield Insulations in Aberdeen
was £32. So that's nearly £10 per square metre. Quite expensive for
what it is.
It is good to work with, easily cut with a breadknife. Just
cut it about a quarter inch oversize and push between the studs.

Regarding the hanging of cabinets, why not insert a couple of
horizontal studs at the correct height while you are in there. Or you
could fit a decorative Dado type rail under the cabinets to take some
of the weight.

Chris.

Why not stop pi**ing about and do a proper job with blocks ?

Because blocks is not a "proper" job. How Btritish. Studs and Fermacell is
all he needs, then no wet trades or skills required. Easy to do and a quick
job of equal performance to blocks.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Studs and Fermacell means wet trades.

He must have watched Ballamory this morning.

Don't you know what you watch?

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Studs and Fermacell means no wet trades.

He must have watched Ballamory this morning.

Don't you know what you watch?

He thinks he is Archie the Inventor, resplendent in pink and kilt.

Doctor Drivel Wrote:


Because blocks is not a "proper" job. How Btritish. Studs and
Fermacell is
all he needs, then no wet trades or skills required. Easy to do and a
quick
job of equal performance to blocks.

The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block. In which case using blocks to
fill the doorway is the "proper" job.
You can stuff a stud wall with as much insulation as you like but there
is no substitute for mass, so blocks will win it every time


--
Nick H

In message , Nick H
writes

Doctor Drivel Wrote:


Because blocks is not a "proper" job. How Btritish. Studs and
Fermacell is
all he needs, then no wet trades or skills required. Easy to do and a
quick
job of equal performance to blocks.

The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block.

That's correct.

Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

Thanks again everyone.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

Good. Using a stud patition to fill in a doorway in a block wall would
almost certainly result in the plaster skim cracking.

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Paul Giverin wrote:

Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

Thanks again everyone.

If you decide to give plastering a go, try using lime plaster. It takes
forever to go off, so you can take your time and get it as spot on as
you can. And if you end up not neat enough, nowt lost.


NT

"Nick H" wrote in message
. ..

Doctor Drivel Wrote:


Because blocks is not a "proper" job. How Btritish. Studs and
Fermacell is
all he needs, then no wet trades or skills required. Easy to do and a
quick
job of equal performance to blocks.

The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block. In which case using blocks to
fill the doorway is the "proper" job.

How British. Because it is there I must blindly do the same.

You can stuff a stud wall with as
much insulation as you like but there
is no substitute for mass, so blocks
will win it every time

Any figures for this? Or are you making things up?

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
In message , Nick H
writes

Doctor Drivel Wrote:


Because blocks is not a "proper" job. How Btritish. Studs and
Fermacell is
all he needs, then no wet trades or skills required. Easy to do and a
quick
job of equal performance to blocks.

The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block.

That's correct.

Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

Fermacell can do that. Fill in level with surrounding wall and use their
filler to mesh into existing plaster.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,

Paul Giverin wrote:
Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

Good. Using a stud patition to fill in a doorway in a block wall would
almost certainly result in the plaster skim cracking.

What nonsense.

Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Nick H
writes


Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't take
you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate. You'll need to
tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on "furfix" type
profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always dry line it,
again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I initially
thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a mixer and then
have the wall rendered and plastered on both sides. A stud wall would
have just required a skim but I suppose the cost of the timber,
plasterboard, plywood (if needed for strength) and sound insulation
would probably cost just as much.

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size personally;
especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be particularly quick.
But if you do, it only a one-day hire from HSS is only about a tenner.
Assuming you were going to pay for a pro to skim the stud partition,
then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your block wall (which isn't
rocket science) then you're just left with the same cost of hiring a pro
to do the skimming.

David

wrote:
On 27 Nov,
Nick H wrote:

Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY and
the results are always going to be better with regards to sound insulation
and fixings. A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it
shouldn't take you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate.
You'll need to tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on
"furfix" type profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always
dry line it, again not a difficult job. I would guess from the fact you've
started the job that your fairly competent with the tools so go for it.


What would you lay the blocks on? The oversite concrete, or a lintel below
floor level, or break into the oversite concrete and dig down to foundation
level? I would guess oversite concrete would be adequate, but would a BCO
agree?

Just on the existing floor. This isn't going to be a load-bearing wall,
and blocks aren't particularly heavy.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Nick H
writes


Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't take
you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate. You'll need to
tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on "furfix" type
profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always dry line it,
again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I initially
thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a mixer and then
have the wall rendered and plastered on both sides. A stud wall would
have just required a skim but I suppose the cost of the timber,
plasterboard, plywood (if needed for strength) and sound insulation
would probably cost just as much.

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size personally;
especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be particularly quick.
But if you do, it only a one-day hire from HSS is only about a tenner.
Assuming you were going to pay for a pro to skim the stud partition,
then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your block wall (which isn't
rocket science) then you're just left with the same cost of hiring a pro
to do the skimming.

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and skill solutions are there.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On 27 Nov,
Nick H wrote:

Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for DIY
and
the results are always going to be better with regards to sound
insulation
and fixings. A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it
shouldn't take you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate.
You'll need to tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt on
"furfix" type profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you can always
dry line it, again not a difficult job. I would guess from the fact
you've
started the job that your fairly competent with the tools so go for it.

What would you lay the blocks on? The oversite concrete, or a lintel
below
floor level, or break into the oversite concrete and dig down to
foundation
level? I would guess oversite concrete would be adequate, but would a
BCO
agree?

Just on the existing floor. This isn't going to be a load-bearing wall,
and blocks aren't particularly heavy.

You have got to be kidding. A block wall is 1/2 ton one metre in length.
which is heavy. Best go for a stud wall, high density bats and Fermacell
boards. So easy.

wrote:
Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

If you decide to give plastering a go, try using lime plaster. It takes
forever to go off, so you can take your time and get it as spot on as
you can. And if you end up not neat enough, nowt lost.

Sorry, NT, but I think you're obsessed! Whack on the browning
and finish in this case....

In message , Lobster
writes

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size personally;
especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be particularly quick.

I hired one last year when I had to lay a couple of large patios. It did
make things a lot easier.

But if you do, it only a one-day hire from HSS is only about a
tenner.

Yep.

Assuming you were going to pay for a pro to skim the stud partition,
then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your block wall (which isn't
rocket science) then you're just left with the same cost of hiring a
pro to do the skimming.

Yeah, I've been giving that some thought. I reckon I could manage it.

Thanks.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.

If you decide to give plastering a go, try using lime plaster. It takes
forever to go off, so you can take your time and get it as spot on as
you can. And if you end up not neat enough, nowt lost.

Sorry, NT, but I think you're obsessed! Whack on the browning
and finish in this case....

Screw on the Fermacell and a little filler more likely.

Chris Bacon wrote:
wrote:

Taking all the advice onboard, I've decided to go with my first
preference and use blocks. I don't know any thing about Fermacell and it
may be brilliant but as I'm filling in a couple of doorways in an
existing wall, I'd still need a plasterer in for a top skim to make the
job look invisible.


If you decide to give plastering a go, try using lime plaster. It takes
forever to go off, so you can take your time and get it as spot on as
you can. And if you end up not neat enough, nowt lost.

Sorry, NT, but I think you're obsessed! Whack on the browning
and finish in this case....

Did anyone see the muppets in last week's Property Ladder playing with
the stuff? They had dozens and dozens of premixed plastic tubs of the
stuff all stacked up in the garden...

David

Lobster wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
wrote:
lime plaster

Sorry, NT, but I think you're obsessed! Whack on the browning
and finish in this case....

Did anyone see the muppets in last week's Property Ladder playing with
the stuff? They had dozens and dozens of premixed plastic tubs of the
stuff all stacked up in the garden...

Television apart, lime certainly has a place in buildings,
but it's not simply a case of gypsum/cement bad, lime good.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block. In which case using blocks to
fill the doorway is the "proper" job.

How British. Because it is there I must blindly do the same.

So you don't approve of repairing a wall using the same materials as it's
built of? Seems your cowboy tendencies extend beyond plumbing...

You can stuff a stud wall with as
much insulation as you like but there
is no substitute for mass, so blocks
will win it every time

Any figures for this? Or are you making things up?

For air borne noise transmission it has always been and always will be the
case.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and skill solutions are there.

So you consider there's no skill needed to build a stud partition wall
properly?

Figures, given you've never built anything.

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulenec wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and skill solutions are there.

So you

** snip babbling senility **

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and skill solutions are there.

So you consider

** snip senile babble **

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The fact that he is considering using blocks would lead one to assume
the existing structure is brick/block. In which case using blocks to
fill the doorway is the "proper" job.

How British. Because it is there I must blindly do the same.

So you

** snip senile babble **

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Nick H
writes


Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for
DIY and the results are always going to be better with regards to
sound insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't
take you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate.
You'll need to tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt
on "furfix" type profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you
can always dry line it, again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I initially
thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a mixer and then
have the wall rendered and plastered on both sides. A stud wall
would have just required a skim but I suppose the cost of the
timber, plasterboard, plywood (if needed for strength) and sound
insulation would probably cost just as much.

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size personally;
especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be particularly
quick. But if you do, it only a one-day hire from HSS is only
about a tenner. Assuming you were going to pay for a pro to skim
the stud partition, then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your
block wall (which isn't rocket science) then you're just left with
the same cost of hiring a pro to do the skimming.

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and skill solutions are there.

DD,

From what Paul has described, 'filling' the hole with block etc is the
correct way to resolve the job.

It it utter madness to use a single stud wall if you require any modicum of
sound insulation (as stated in the OP) because no matter how you stuff
insulation into it the sound WILL travel though the studs.

To get a 'soundproof' stud wall, you have to build two of the little beggars
with a gap in between so that that the frame works are NOT touching and then
fill this gap with the relevant sound insulation - this by the way, is from
over forty years of experience and of being involved in constructing the
'odd soundproof' room using both concrete blocks and stud partitions.

In this type of job, cost effectiveness may well decide the outcome of what
materials are used anyway!

Brian G

"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Nick H
writes


Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for
DIY and the results are always going to be better with regards to
sound insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it shouldn't
take you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a mate.
You'll need to tie the blocks in at each end but you can use bolt
on "furfix" type profiles. If the plasterings a problem then you
can always dry line it, again not a difficult job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your fairly
competent with the tools so go for it.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously it
will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I initially
thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a mixer and then
have the wall rendered and plastered on both sides. A stud wall
would have just required a skim but I suppose the cost of the
timber, plasterboard, plywood (if needed for strength) and sound
insulation would probably cost just as much.

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size personally;
especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be particularly
quick. But if you do, it only a one-day hire from HSS is only
about a tenner. Assuming you were going to pay for a pro to skim
the stud partition, then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your
block wall (which isn't rocket science) then you're just left with
the same cost of hiring a pro to do the skimming.

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and some
filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters. Madness.
Simpler, easier and less hassle and less skill solutions are there.

DD,

From what Paul has described, 'filling'
the hole with block etc is the
correct way to resolve the job.

It isn't. It is one way.

It it utter madness to use a single stud
wall if you require any modicum of
sound insulation (as stated in the OP)
because no matter how you stuff
insulation into it the sound WILL travel
though the studs.

Spaced studs then. Easy.

To get a 'soundproof' stud wall, you have to
build two of the little beggars

No. Just spaced studs, easy.

with a gap in between so that that the frame works are NOT touching and
then
fill this gap with the relevant sound insulation - this by the way, is
from
over forty years of experience and of being involved in constructing the
'odd soundproof' room using both concrete blocks and stud partitions.

I am not impressed. Thin spaced studs, dense Rockwool bats, and dense (like
MDF) prefinished Fermacell. I have doen it. It works "very" well indeed.
As the spaced studs will be thin, the centres are narrower to give more
racking.

In this type of job, cost effectiveness may
well decide the outcome of what
materials are used anyway!

Also the skill levels. My way there are no wet skills, apart fom some
filler. Some power tools and away you go. As the level of work is not that
great, cost is not an issue.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Nick H
writes


Personally i'd go with a block wall. Its not to big a project for
DIY and the results are always going to be better with regards to
sound insulation and fixings.
A double door size opening is only about 40 blocks so it
shouldn't take you long, you can hire a mixer or lend one from a
mate. You'll need to tie the blocks in at each end but you can
use bolt on "furfix" type profiles. If the plasterings a
problem then you can always dry line it, again not a difficult
job.
I would guess from the fact you've started the job that your
fairly competent with the tools so go for it.

I'm going to give some more thought about using blocks. Obviously
it will be better for strength and for sound insulation. I
initially thought it would be more costly as I'd have to hire a
mixer and then have the wall rendered and plastered on both
sides. A stud wall would have just required a skim but I suppose
the cost of the timber, plasterboard, plywood (if needed for
strength) and sound insulation would probably cost just as much.

I don't think I'd bother with a mixer for a job that size
personally; especially if you're new to bricklaying you won't be
particularly quick. But if you do, it only a one-day hire from
HSS is only about a tenner. Assuming you were going to pay for a
pro to skim
the stud partition, then if you diy'ed the plaster basecoat on your
block wall (which isn't rocket science) then you're just left with
the same cost of hiring a pro to do the skimming.

This is madness. He is only wanting a small amount of walling and
some filling and they tell him, to use blocks and wet plasters.
Madness. Simpler, easier and less hassle and less skill solutions
are there.

DD,

From what Paul has described, 'filling'
the hole with block etc is the
correct way to resolve the job.

It isn't. It is one way.

That just happens to be the correct way!

It it utter madness to use a single stud
wall if you require any modicum of
sound insulation (as stated in the OP)
because no matter how you stuff
insulation into it the sound WILL travel
though the studs.

Spaced studs then. Easy.

All stud partitions are 'spaced' studs by the very nature of the
construction. To get sound insulation you have to stop the sound from
travelling from one side of the wall to the other - ergo a 'double' stud
partition - unless of course that is what you mean by 'spaced' studs and if
that is the case, then I am correct.

To get a 'soundproof' stud wall, you have to
build two of the little beggars

No. Just spaced studs, easy.

You have to have a 'gap between the studs supporting the finished faces -
easy when you know how!

with a gap in between so that that the frame works are NOT touching
and then fill this gap with the relevant sound insulation - this by
the way, is from over forty years of experience and of being
involved in constructing the 'odd soundproof' room using both
concrete blocks and stud partitions.

I am not impressed. Thin spaced studs, dense Rockwool bats, and
dense (like MDF) prefinished Fermacell. I have doen it. It works
"very" well indeed. As the spaced studs will be thin, the centres are
narrower to give more racking.

I'm beginning to think that you are Fermacell rep!

In this type of job, cost effectiveness may
well decide the outcome of what
materials are used anyway!

Also the skill levels. My way there are no wet skills, apart fom some
filler. Some power tools and away you go. As the level of work is
not that great, cost is not an issue.

Skill level? I think that you are being a little demeaning here to the OP
and others! It takes a fair amount of skill to properly build a stud
partition, especially one that is soundproof - anyway, if it's that easy,
then you cannot be all that skilled can you, as that is the only method that
you are proposing?

In this case, I consider the OP to be far more skilled than you for the
following reasons:

1 He has chosen to ask for advice, and taken heed of the advice given.

2 He is prepared to 'have a go' at different methods of construction
using different skills.


Brian G