Hi,

I have a "Sime Super Four" combi-boiler system installed in the loft.
This has a built-in programmable clock which I would like to replace
with something like a DanfossFP715.

This will provide me with the useful manual and +1hr overrides, but
the main reason is to have the controls (programmer) in a more
convienent place and not having to pop into the loft access the
controls.

The Sime has a circuit diagram which shows the switches for the CH and
DHW and it looks fine. However, when I look at the wiring for the
Danfos, it is showing a live feed switching to either on/off for the 2
switches (SPDT) sending 230V to either.

The Sime looks like it is actually making/breaking a circuit, and the
small PCB has at least some 24volt components.

Anyone familiar with this boiler and know if I can easily replace the
programmer ?

I have BMP images of the Sime circuit, and a PDF file for the FP715,
if anyone is interested enough to have a look.


--
Hammy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fagent3 wrote:

Hi,

I have a "Sime Super Four" combi-boiler system installed in the loft.
This has a built-in programmable clock which I would like to replace
with something like a DanfossFP715.

This will provide me with the useful manual and +1hr overrides, but
the main reason is to have the controls (programmer) in a more
convienent place and not having to pop into the loft access the
controls.

The Sime has a circuit diagram which shows the switches for the CH and
DHW and it looks fine. However, when I look at the wiring for the
Danfos, it is showing a live feed switching to either on/off for the 2
switches (SPDT) sending 230V to either.

The Sime looks like it is actually making/breaking a circuit, and the
small PCB has at least some 24volt components.

Anyone familiar with this boiler and know if I can easily replace the
programmer ?

I have BMP images of the Sime circuit, and a PDF file for the FP715,
if anyone is interested enough to have a look.

In order to fit external timers to most combi boilers, you need timers with
volt-free contacts - where the contacts are completely isolated from
whatever drives the timer itself. You could safely use (say) a Honeywell
CM67 which is battery driven and definitely has volt-free contacts. It
doesn't do your +1hr in quite the same way as the Danfoss, but it can
achieve the same thing - and more - with its 'party' setting, and has lots
of other clever tricks up its sleeve.

I don't have a spec for the Danfoss FP715, but I suspect that its clock is
mains driven (with battery backup) and that the mains is switched through to
the CH and HW controls. If so, it will not be suitable for your purposes -
unless you use it in conjection with a relay.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:49:40 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fagent3 wrote:

snip

In order to fit external timers to most combi boilers, you need timers with
volt-free contacts - where the contacts are completely isolated from
whatever drives the timer itself. You could safely use (say) a Honeywell
CM67 which is battery driven and definitely has volt-free contacts. It
doesn't do your +1hr in quite the same way as the Danfoss, but it can
achieve the same thing - and more - with its 'party' setting, and has lots
of other clever tricks up its sleeve.

I don't have a spec for the Danfoss FP715, but I suspect that its clock is
mains driven (with battery backup) and that the mains is switched through to
the CH and HW controls. If so, it will not be suitable for your purposes -
unless you use it in conjection with a relay.


Many thanks Set Square. I guess it's "volt-free" switching I'm after.

Am I correct in thinking that I'd need 2 CM67 units - to switch the CH
& DHW ? Although I called the Sime Super Fours a "combi-boiler" it
has a inbuilt hot water tank (40lt ?) and I' like to 'manage' both
from a new remote programmer/timer.

What is the "party" setting ? I'm not too bothered about the +1hour
but want some "advance" button where I can override the current
situation to on or off until it's next programmed on/off.

I read that the CM67 has radio-frequeny remote temp sensors, which
would be nice but not really suitable for me installation. I assume
that i can ignore the therostatic features of the CM67 and just use
it's timmed switching ?

However, since I'm likely to need 2 units - just what type of main
relays switches could I use to provide a similar volt-free switching
using the Danfoss ?

--
Hammy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fagent3 wrote:

Hi,

I have a "Sime Super Four" combi-boiler system installed in the
loft. This has a built-in programmable clock which I would like to
replace with something like a DanfossFP715.

This will provide me with the useful manual and +1hr overrides, but
the main reason is to have the controls (programmer) in a more
convienent place and not having to pop into the loft access the
controls.

The Sime has a circuit diagram which shows the switches for the CH
and DHW and it looks fine. However, when I look at the wiring for
the Danfos, it is showing a live feed switching to either on/off for
the 2 switches (SPDT) sending 230V to either.

The Sime looks like it is actually making/breaking a circuit, and the
small PCB has at least some 24volt components.

Anyone familiar with this boiler and know if I can easily replace the
programmer ?

I have BMP images of the Sime circuit, and a PDF file for the FP715,
if anyone is interested enough to have a look.

In order to fit external timers to most combi boilers, you need
timers with volt-free contacts - where the contacts are completely
isolated from whatever drives the timer itself. You could safely use
(say) a Honeywell CM67 which is battery driven and definitely has
volt-free contacts. It doesn't do your +1hr in quite the same way as
the Danfoss, but it can achieve the same thing - and more - with its
'party' setting, and has lots of other clever tricks up its sleeve.

I don't have a spec for the Danfoss FP715, but I suspect that its
clock is mains driven (with battery backup) and that the mains is
switched through to the CH and HW controls. If so, it will not be
suitable for your purposes - unless you use it in conjection with a
relay.

I've since found more details of the FP715 - and it definitely switches
mains to its outputs - which is *not* what you want.

The CM67 which I suggested earlier is, of course, a programmable thermostat
rather then just a timer - so that it replaces a room thermostat *and* a
timer. It controls only one channel - i.e. the central heating. However - I
presume that, with a combi, the HW is on 24x7 to give hot water on demand
whenever a hot tap is turned on - so you don't need a timer for this.

There is also a wireless version of the CM67 so that, if you wished, you
could have the receiver in the attic near to the boiler and would not need
any wires between that and the room unit.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ham wrote:

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:49:40 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fagent3 wrote:

snip

In order to fit external timers to most combi boilers, you need
timers with volt-free contacts - where the contacts are completely
isolated from whatever drives the timer itself. You could safely use
(say) a Honeywell CM67 which is battery driven and definitely has
volt-free contacts. It doesn't do your +1hr in quite the same way as
the Danfoss, but it can achieve the same thing - and more - with its
'party' setting, and has lots of other clever tricks up its sleeve.

I don't have a spec for the Danfoss FP715, but I suspect that its
clock is mains driven (with battery backup) and that the mains is
switched through to the CH and HW controls. If so, it will not be
suitable for your purposes - unless you use it in conjection with a
relay.


Many thanks Set Square. I guess it's "volt-free" switching I'm after.

My previous post seems to have crossed with this one - please have a look at
that. But yes - volt-free is what you're after.

Am I correct in thinking that I'd need 2 CM67 units - to switch the CH
& DHW ? Although I called the Sime Super Fours a "combi-boiler" it
has a inbuilt hot water tank (40lt ?) and I' like to 'manage' both
from a new remote programmer/timer.

I don't think that the CM67 is suitable for hot water. Do you really need to
control that - rather than keeping the 40 litre tank hot all the time? Is it
lagged?

What is the "party" setting ? I'm not too bothered about the +1hour
but want some "advance" button where I can override the current
situation to on or off until it's next programmed on/off.

First a bit of explanation. The CM67, being a programmable stat, doesn't
have ON and OFF per se. It simply allows you to specify different
temperatures at different times - ranging from 5 degC to 30 degC. So, to
turn your heating off, you simply have to tell it to operate at a lower
temperature than the room will be at with no heating. For example, mine is
set at 10 degC overnight. Now to answer your question!

You can at any time temporarily over-ride the programmed temperature. The
over-ride will continue until the next programmed event. The 'party' setting
allows you set a different temperature from the normal setting for a given
number of hours, regardless of programmed events. For example, if your
heating normally goes to the overnight setting at 11pm - but you are having
a party, and want the house to be warm until 2am, you can set it at the
higher temperature for 3 hours. [You can also use it to set a *lower*
temperature for several hours if, for example, you are going out and don't
need the house to be warm until just before you return].


I read that the CM67 has radio-frequeny remote temp sensors, which
would be nice but not really suitable for me installation. I assume
that i can ignore the therostatic features of the CM67 and just use
it's timmed switching ?

As per my other post, you *could* use the RF model. And, as above, you have
to specify a temperature - but you could use 5 for off and 30 for on if you
just wanted it to turn on and off regardless - but that would be a waste. Do
you have a room stat at present?

However, since I'm likely to need 2 units - just what type of main
relays switches could I use to provide a similar volt-free switching
using the Danfoss ?

You should be able to get something suitable from Maplin or RS-Components.
Essentially they need to have a mains-operated coil switching some
independent contacts. You use your FP715 to drive the coils, and use the
contacts to control the boiler. Your boiler spec should tell you what
voltage/current capacity any external switching device needs to have. You
will have to mount the relays in an insulated container - and will probably
have to solder up the connections.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In message , fagent3
writes

Hi,

I have a "Sime Super Four" combi-boiler system installed in the loft.
This has a built-in programmable clock which I would like to replace
with something like a DanfossFP715.

This will provide me with the useful manual and +1hr overrides, but
the main reason is to have the controls (programmer) in a more
convienent place and not having to pop into the loft access the
controls.

The Sime has a circuit diagram which shows the switches for the CH and
DHW and it looks fine. However, when I look at the wiring for the
Danfos, it is showing a live feed switching to either on/off for the 2
switches (SPDT) sending 230V to either.

The Sime looks like it is actually making/breaking a circuit, and the
small PCB has at least some 24volt components.

Anyone familiar with this boiler and know if I can easily replace the
programmer ?

I have BMP images of the Sime circuit, and a PDF file for the FP715,
if anyone is interested enough to have a look.

Email me the interconnection diagram

IIRC, the super four needs volts free contacts

--
geoff

"Set Square" wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ham wrote:

What is the "party" setting ? I'm not too bothered about the +1hour
but want some "advance" button where I can override the current
situation to on or off until it's next programmed on/off.

First a bit of explanation. The CM67, being a programmable stat, doesn't
have ON and OFF per se. It simply allows you to specify different
temperatures at different times - ranging from 5 degC to 30 degC. So, to
turn your heating off, you simply have to tell it to operate at a lower
temperature than the room will be at with no heating. For example, mine is
set at 10 degC overnight. Now to answer your question!

You can at any time temporarily over-ride the programmed temperature. The
over-ride will continue until the next programmed event. The 'party' setting
allows you set a different temperature from the normal setting for a given
number of hours, regardless of programmed events. For example, if your
heating normally goes to the overnight setting at 11pm - but you are having
a party, and want the house to be warm until 2am, you can set it at the
higher temperature for 3 hours. [You can also use it to set a *lower*
temperature for several hours if, for example, you are going out and don't
need the house to be warm until just before you return].

Have you got any info on how to implement that facility? I've got a
number of CM67RF's and a CM61 and If you move the setpoint either up
or down this override is only effective until the next programmed time
/ temperature change. There is no mention of any "party mode" in
either the installation guide or the user instructions.




--

In message , Ham
writes
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:49:40 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fagent3 wrote:

snip

In order to fit external timers to most combi boilers, you need timers with
volt-free contacts - where the contacts are completely isolated from
whatever drives the timer itself. You could safely use (say) a Honeywell
CM67 which is battery driven and definitely has volt-free contacts. It
doesn't do your +1hr in quite the same way as the Danfoss, but it can
achieve the same thing - and more - with its 'party' setting, and has lots
of other clever tricks up its sleeve.

I don't have a spec for the Danfoss FP715, but I suspect that its clock is
mains driven (with battery backup) and that the mains is switched through to
the CH and HW controls. If so, it will not be suitable for your purposes -
unless you use it in conjection with a relay.


Many thanks Set Square. I guess it's "volt-free" switching I'm after.

Am I correct in thinking that I'd need 2 CM67 units - to switch the CH
& DHW ? Although I called the Sime Super Fours a "combi-boiler" it
has a inbuilt hot water tank (40lt ?) and I' like to 'manage' both
from a new remote programmer/timer.

What is the "party" setting ? I'm not too bothered about the +1hour
but want some "advance" button where I can override the current
situation to on or off until it's next programmed on/off.
ing ?

However, since I'm likely to need 2 units - just what type of main
relays switches could I use to provide a similar volt-free switching
using the Danfoss ?


Why not just use a 'volt free' switching stat/programmer?

The Drayton Digistat range of programmable room thermostats does this,
I used one with my combi in the last house for heating control.. This
has an override facility until the next programmed change.

If you really feel the need for timer control of the HW as well then you
can get time switches as well with volt free switching (you wouldn't
want a stat for controlling the HW


--
Chris French

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:

"Set Square" wrote:

The 'party' setting allows you set a different temperature
from the normal setting for a given number of hours, regardless of
programmed events.

Have you got any info on how to implement that facility? I've got a
number of CM67RF's and a CM61 and If you move the setpoint either up
or down this override is only effective until the next programmed time
/ temperature change. There is no mention of any "party mode" in
either the installation guide or the user instructions.

The text below (in quotes) is from the instruction leaflet which came with
my CM67. There are a load of buttons which you get at by lifting the hinged
lid. Immediately under the display is a row of 6 buttons numbered 1-6 for
the 6 programme steps for a day. Under these are 3 more buttons - depicting
a cup of tea, a rocking chair (I think!) and a suitcase. These are for
Party, Day Off, and Holiday settings respectively. This is what it says . .

"When the slider is in AUTO, the temperature can be adjusted temporarily by
pressing the (PARTY) button. Set the party time (1 - 23 hours) by pressing
[Clock] + or -. Set the party temperature (5°C - 30°C) by pressing
TEMPerature ^ or V (up or down). The CM67 will control to the new
temperature for the set number of hours and then go back to the normal
temperature program. To cancel the PARTY setting, press (PARTY) a second
time. The button can also be used when you go out and want to reduce the
temperature for a few hours to save energy."

HTH.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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"Set Square" wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:

"Set Square" wrote:

The 'party' setting allows you set a different temperature
from the normal setting for a given number of hours, regardless of
programmed events.

Have you got any info on how to implement that facility? I've got a
number of CM67RF's and a CM61 and If you move the setpoint either up
or down this override is only effective until the next programmed time
/ temperature change. There is no mention of any "party mode" in
either the installation guide or the user instructions.

The text below (in quotes) is from the instruction leaflet which came with
my CM67. There are a load of buttons which you get at by lifting the hinged
lid. Immediately under the display is a row of 6 buttons numbered 1-6 for
the 6 programme steps for a day. Under these are 3 more buttons - depicting
a cup of tea, a rocking chair (I think!) and a suitcase. These are for
Party, Day Off, and Holiday settings respectively. This is what it says . .

"When the slider is in AUTO, the temperature can be adjusted temporarily by
pressing the (PARTY) button. Set the party time (1 - 23 hours) by pressing
[Clock] + or -. Set the party temperature (5°C - 30°C) by pressing
TEMPerature ^ or V (up or down). The CM67 will control to the new
temperature for the set number of hours and then go back to the normal
temperature program. To cancel the PARTY setting, press (PARTY) a second
time. The button can also be used when you go out and want to reduce the
temperature for a few hours to save energy."

Thanks, there must have been a changes in spec on the later ones as
I've only got the holiday button on mine.


--

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:


Thanks, there must have been a changes in spec on the later ones as
I've only got the holiday button on mine.

How old are yours? I've had mine for nearly 2 years (Jan 2004).
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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"Set Square" wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:


Thanks, there must have been a changes in spec on the later ones as
I've only got the holiday button on mine.

How old are yours? I've had mine for nearly 2 years (Jan 2004).

I would guess around 1998/99 when a lot of the other work was done in
the house (before we bought the place)


--

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:

"Set Square" wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:


Thanks, there must have been a changes in spec on the later ones as
I've only got the holiday button on mine.

How old are yours? I've had mine for nearly 2 years (Jan 2004).

I would guess around 1998/99 when a lot of the other work was done in
the house (before we bought the place)


I didn't realise that they'd been around for that long - maybe it's time for
an upgrade?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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On or around Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:14:24 -0000, "Set Square"
mused:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:

"Set Square" wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:


Thanks, there must have been a changes in spec on the later ones as
I've only got the holiday button on mine.

How old are yours? I've had mine for nearly 2 years (Jan 2004).

I would guess around 1998/99 when a lot of the other work was done in
the house (before we bought the place)


I didn't realise that they'd been around for that long - maybe it's time for
an upgrade?

Apparantly Honeywell have hit a technical glitch somewhere and are
several weeks behind with the CM67 and the other CM something.

I'm just trying to find someone with some in stock.
--
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