I need to do some electrical work in my house

Kitchen and bathroom (if it was advertised on TV I would have done the
bathroom and kitchen 2 years ago !)

Anyway I am where I am, and I found this
http://www.iee.org/events/courses/short/partp.cfm

In short, can a diyer do a course that would allow me to be 'a
competent person' considering I've no other electical qualifications at
all ?

Otherwise it's off to the yellow pages to find a sparky

On 29 Oct 2005 20:11:14 -0700, "
wrote:

I need to do some electrical work in my house

Kitchen and bathroom (if it was advertised on TV I would have done the
bathroom and kitchen 2 years ago !)

Anyway I am where I am, and I found this
http://www.iee.org/events/courses/short/partp.cfm

In short, can a diyer do a course that would allow me to be 'a
competent person' considering I've no other electical qualifications at
all ?

Being a "competent person" doesn't mean being competent. It means
being a member of a trade body whose subscription would preclude the
average d-i-yer.

--
Frank Erskine

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:39:22 +0000 (UTC), Frank Erskine
wrote:


Being a "competent person" doesn't mean being competent. It means
being a member of a trade body whose subscription would preclude the
average d-i-yer.

I know all these new rules and regulations I supposed to help in the
long run (pushing out cowboys / incompetents etc) but it is
frustrating for those of us who have demonstrated our 'competence'
over the years?

When I bought this 1897 house over 30 years ago I couldn't afford to
have things done so had to do them all myself. I removed gas lights
and bits of old rubber sheathed wiring, chimney breasts, concrete
kitchen floor etc etc.

I then fitted a new CU, wired (it wasn't 're-wiring' because there
hardly was any), ran new gas feeds etc etc. Everything I did I sought
advice on before I started .. and followed that advice .. just 'common
sense' in my mind?

30+ years later it's all still working .. but if I wanted to replace
any of it now I wouldn't be 'competent' ?

When the gas cooker, multipoint water heater, electric shower, washing
machine (etc etc) go wrong I fix them (where I can and assuming I can
get the parts etc), adain, in most cases just 'common sense'.

Shame there isn't a special 'D-I-Y'ers competents test' we could take
just to say 'we are 'ok' to do our own work ... the work most of us
have been doing anyway for many years at least?

Again, common sense would tell us if there was some special
(expensive) kit that was needed to finally test / measure / sign off
something we would get someone in to do so (or hire the kit etc)?

Ho hum ..

All the best ..

T i m

On 29 Oct 2005 20:11:14 -0700, "
wrote:


In short, can a diyer do a course that would allow me to be 'a
competent person' considering I've no other electical qualifications at
all ?

No. Part P has little or nothing to do with competence. It is
mainly a bureaucratic procedure designed to put one man companies
out of business as Mr Brown thinks they find it too easy to evade his
nice taxes.

No matter how competent you might be your company must be a member of
an "approved scheme", cost of this starts at about GBP700 I believe.
It is the company, not the individual, which is registered (in the
case of a sole trader they are the same of course) and which has to
pay the annual fees.

You therefore have a situation where a vastly experienced and well
qualified commercial electrician is not allowed to move a socket in
his kitchen but a spotty yoof with no experience, no qualification
and minimal training can be employed to do it for him so long as said
yoof works for an accredited company.




--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On 2005-10-30, Peter Parry wrote:
On 29 Oct 2005 20:11:14 -0700, "
wrote:


In short, can a diyer do a course that would allow me to be 'a
competent person' considering I've no other electical qualifications at
all ?

No. Part P has little or nothing to do with competence. It is
mainly a bureaucratic procedure designed to put one man companies
out of business as Mr Brown thinks they find it too easy to evade his
nice taxes.

No matter how competent you might be your company must be a member of
an "approved scheme", cost of this starts at about GBP700 I believe.
It is the company, not the individual, which is registered (in the
case of a sole trader they are the same of course) and which has to
pay the annual fees.

You therefore have a situation where a vastly experienced and well
qualified commercial electrician is not allowed to move a socket in
his kitchen but a spotty yoof with no experience, no qualification
and minimal training can be employed to do it for him so long as said
yoof works for an accredited company.


OK, I get the part about the _company_ being accredited and it's
employees can know bugger all about electrics ..... So, where can
I find an acredited company who'll "recruit" me so I can then work
for free on my home wiring?

--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:57:52 GMT, Peter Lynch
wrote:

OK, I get the part about the _company_ being accredited and it's
employees can know bugger all about electrics ..... So, where can
I find an acredited company who'll "recruit" me so I can then work
for free on my home wiring?

For a wage of, say, (minus) 25 quid a lifetime?

I be prepared to bet it's going on. ;-))

DG

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:57:52 GMT, Peter Lynch
wrote:

OK, I get the part about the _company_ being accredited and it's
employees can know bugger all about electrics ..... So, where can
I find an acredited company who'll "recruit" me so I can then work
for free on my home wiring?

For a wage of, say, (minus) 25 quid a lifetime?

I be prepared to bet it's going on. ;-))

DG

Beg to differ with everyones opinion of Part P, but the quality of the
installer work is assessed and the technical abilities of the supervisors is
also assessed so that they can perform the Qualifying Supervisors role. This
person ( and this is the weak bit) is responsobile for ensuring that the
quality is maintained.

I have got to say however, I am not in favour of this scheme because it is
difficult to enforce. What should have been done is prevent the sale of
electrical items to the general public unless the purchaser is licensed,
same for gas, but this goverment has not got the balls to do that.

I to am frustrated with having to pay to register for something I have been
doing for 15 years.

Regards

Steve Dawson

Stephen Dawson wrote:

What should have been done is prevent the sale of electrical items to
the general public unless the purchaser is licensed, same for gas,
but this goverment has not got the balls to do that.

Oh no - that would lead to even worse bodging, if proper materials
weren't readily available. And anyway there's no restriction on the
sale of gas parts to the general public, is there?

--
Andy

wrote:

I need to do some electrical work in my house

Kitchen and bathroom (if it was advertised on TV I would have done the
bathroom and kitchen 2 years ago !)

Anyway I am where I am, and I found this
http://www.iee.org/events/courses/short/partp.cfm

In short, can a diyer do a course that would allow me to be 'a
competent person' considering I've no other electical qualifications at
all ?

The catch would seem to be:

"Please note that contractors must also register with a scheme provider,
and meet the Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme requirements, to be
assessed as "competent enterprises". Conditions include electrical
competence qualifications (eg to City and Guilds 2381 with suitable
experience and training) and possession of sufficient public liability
insurance."

Otherwise it's off to the yellow pages to find a sparky

Roughly translated as: "It was all done before April... honest guv" ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
wrote:

snip

The catch would seem to be:

"Please note that contractors must also register with a scheme
provider,
and meet the Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme requirements, to be
assessed as "competent enterprises". Conditions include electrical
competence qualifications (eg to City and Guilds 2381 with suitable
experience and training) and possession of sufficient public
liability
insurance."

Otherwise it's off to the yellow pages to find a sparky

Roughly translated as: "It was all done before April... honest guv"
;-)


I wonder just how many lethal installations Part P(iss) will cause,
not through the 'cowboy' but just the fact that law abiding people
will not have work done that they can't now afford?

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I wonder just how many lethal installations Part P(iss) will cause,
not through the 'cowboy' but just the fact that law abiding people
will not have work done that they can't now afford?

That is the saddest thing about the whole fiasco really. As with much
nanny legislation of this type, it will end up causing the problem it
stated as its objective to cure!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

I wonder just how many lethal installations Part P(iss) will cause,
not through the 'cowboy' but just the fact that law abiding people
will not have work done that they can't now afford?



I know someone with 37 sockets in their room of which only three are hard
wired.
I was asked if I could wire in some new ones and I refused (even though it
easy) so they still have lots of 4 ways on the floor.

I will blame the ODPM if anything happens.

Some associations are more thorough than others.

In England And Wales you can send a kitchen fitter on a 2 week course
to be a 'compotent person' under the England and Wales Building regs.

When I went to become a certifier of construction (to make it possible
for me to sign of my own building work in Scotland) i had to be
assessed by SELECT (The Electrical Contractors Assoc Of Scotland)

The assesment was very thorough, I was asked for my PASSPORT as proof
of ID, then my National Insurance Number. (they looked up the UK
register of electricians to check if I had any qualifications and if
they were up to date)

I had to do a few more courses to bring my regs upto date (did a regs
course 5 and a half years ago- had to do another as I needed one every
5 years)

The chap looked at 3 of my jobs with a fine tooth comb and asked lots
of electrical questions.

This is only to join the Electrical Contractors Assoc (of Scotland) -
SELECT.

The building regs are different up here but the ECA (in England and
Wales) has similar thorough membership criteria.

I also neede to prove insurances (public and employers liability) and
show my trade certificates.

Some associations have less thorough membership criteria, so it is
useful to check things first.

Some associations also have backup (if I go out of business they will
get a member company to take over ant arranged works at the agreed
price)

On 6 Nov 2005 12:21:26 -0800, "baldelectrician"
wrote:

When I went to become a certifier of construction (to make it possible
for me to sign of my own building work in Scotland) i had to be
assessed by SELECT (The Electrical Contractors Assoc Of Scotland)

You can be as competent as you like - it has nothing to do with Part
P. Indeed the man who wrote the British Standard on electrical
installations is now unable to legally install a telephone socket in
his kitchen - however a work experience oik can do it for him as long
as the company the oik works for has paid their fees.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:
You can be as competent as you like - it has nothing to do with Part
P. Indeed the man who wrote

as a matter of interest...

the British Standard on electrical
installations

presumably you mean the IEE wiring regs (BS7671)?

Who is that?


is now unable to legally install a telephone socket in
his kitchen

not an ex-IEE employee by any chance??

On 7 Nov 2005 13:38:17 -0800, wrote:


presumably you mean the IEE wiring regs (BS7671)?

That is a British Standard.

Who is that?

Who is what?

is now unable to legally install a telephone socket in
his kitchen

not an ex-IEE employee by any chance??

I'm not aware he has been dismissed.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/