I've been lurking her for a while, and have gained a great deal of useful
information - thank you all!

There has been a lot of discussion on the merits of the various designs of
HW/CH systems, on good v bad plumbers, the 'best' boiler. Our boiler needs
to be replaced, and probably the entire system redesigned, as I am having
two(!!) shower rooms added plus an extension.

Now, my diy is limited to analysis and putting up shelves (too old, fat and
busy for much more). I've read all the posts about the merits or otherwise
of combi v stored, open v closed, underfloor v rads, Worcester Bosch v
Vaillant, but I'm having trouble putting all the information together
coherently.

So, my question is: how can I go about finding someone competent to design
a new system? From what I gather, 'my local plumber' probably ignored most
of his theory classes in college, but who else is there? A college
lecturer? Are there specialist consultants?

Hoping not to be the cause of a flame war
--
Sarah M

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:29:51 +0100, SarahEmmm
wrote:

I've been lurking her for a while, and have gained a great deal of useful
information - thank you all!

There has been a lot of discussion on the merits of the various designs of
HW/CH systems, on good v bad plumbers, the 'best' boiler. Our boiler needs
to be replaced, and probably the entire system redesigned, as I am having
two(!!) shower rooms added plus an extension.

Now, my diy is limited to analysis and putting up shelves (too old, fat and
busy for much more). I've read all the posts about the merits or otherwise
of combi v stored, open v closed, underfloor v rads, Worcester Bosch v
Vaillant, but I'm having trouble putting all the information together
coherently.

Don't put yourself down! If you can put shelves up you can hang a
radiator! Connecting the pipes really isn't that hard. I found that
most of the hard work is stuff like getting the tongue and groove
floorboards up, drilling through walls to get pipes through, etc.

So, my question is: how can I go about finding someone competent to design
a new system? From what I gather, 'my local plumber' probably ignored most
of his theory classes in college, but who else is there? A college
lecturer? Are there specialist consultants?

I've hardly ever found anyone competent enough to explain all the
options to me...I'd never even heard of a thermal store before I
started to read this group. (Seems like quite a few plumbers haven't
heard of one either).

Often manufacturers are quite good sources of advice. I'm sure, for
example if you call DPS and ask them about heatbanks they will chat to
you for ages about the advantages of them! :-)

If you sketch out a design and post it on the web, some of the very
generous experts here (I am not one) will probably offer some
critique.

Hoping not to be the cause of a flame war

Don't worry: they will be quite friendly flames anyway :-)

SarahEmmm wrote:

So, my question is: how can I go about finding someone competent to design
a new system? From what I gather, 'my local plumber' probably ignored most
of his theory classes in college, but who else is there? A college
lecturer? Are there specialist consultants?

How can somone design your system until you have decided what exactly
you require.

Do you want UFH in place of radiators?

How much upheaval can you cope with, do you have space for seperate HW
storage or is space a premium?

I would suggest putting your heating and plumbing ultimate desires down
then look at which bits you really REALLY want and balance against what
you will be happy with.

We got UFH from Nu-Heat, who will draw plans and design whole system etc
as long as you can supply accurate floor plan including joist
spacing/location etc.

Normally the people that supply the differrent parts will be able to
suggest a capable installer of their own kit.

I found getting quotes from multiple plumbers was a good way of fishing
for information and getting ideas that I hadn't considered at no cost!

--
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On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:22:33 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

SarahEmmm wrote:

So, my question is: how can I go about finding someone competent to design
a new system? From what I gather, 'my local plumber' probably ignored most
of his theory classes in college, but who else is there? A college
lecturer? Are there specialist consultants?

How can somone design your system until you have decided what exactly
you require.

Do you want UFH in place of radiators?

How much upheaval can you cope with, do you have space for seperate HW
storage or is space a premium?

I would suggest putting your heating and plumbing ultimate desires down
then look at which bits you really REALLY want and balance against what
you will be happy with.

We got UFH from Nu-Heat, who will draw plans and design whole system etc
as long as you can supply accurate floor plan including joist
spacing/location etc.

Normally the people that supply the differrent parts will be able to
suggest a capable installer of their own kit.

I found getting quotes from multiple plumbers was a good way of fishing
for information and getting ideas that I hadn't considered at no cost!

Thank you, and thanks to Mr Fizzion too!

I know what results I require, and I know what space is available; what I
don't know is what is the best way to get to the results, and that's why I
wanted to talk things over with a 'competent person'. I didn't want to go
into vast involved detail on a first post here, but I'm happy to do so if
your're prepared to read it! [see below]

First I'll answer the questions you've put:

Mr F: 'busy' = living in Norfolk and working in London. Yes, to be sure I
could hang a couple of rads, but to do the whole thing would take me a
couple of years, if not longer! I would be more likely to do the wiring;
with the new regs I don't know if its worth it, but I am a lot more
confident in that area (at least, the 3 houses I wired didn't go up in
smoke).

Pete:
UFH v rads - I'd love UFH, but this is a renovation/extension and as such
it would be a very expensive proposition. Electric UHF is a no-no (my
brother in NZ has just had this and is not entirely happy: expensive, slow
response times). A wet system would be fine in the extension, but there
really isn't enough floor area to be worth putting it in just the one area;
to do the rest of the ground floor would require lowering floor levels, so
not really feasible. Skirting rads are great (put them in my first house)
but on the expensive side. Rads: well, siting them is always the worst
problem, but that's what I already have in the main house. Hot air - mmmm,
probably not feasible except in a new build.

Upheaval - there's going to be a lot of that anyway, so no worries.

Nu-Heat - yes, got their info, but see above. Their rule of thumb price
came out at 4k for the parts, which is some way above what I would hope to
spend.

As you say, the people who supply the different parts will suggest capable
installers, but the problem is in deciding the kit in the first place!

I'm pretty sure most plumbers will gaily tell me that I want a combi boiler
(and maybe moan that it has to be condensing), and either tell me that the
current pipework and rads are fine, or that they are useless, depending on
how much work they want to do.

So okay, here we go:

Its a 25 year old chalet, currently with living room, bedroom, kitchen and
bath on GF, 2 beds + toilet on 1st, with loft space above. We will replace
the upstairs toilet and some space in the 1st floor loft into 2 shower
rooms. These will be directly over the kitchen, where the (gas) boiler is
currently. Boiler definitely needs replacing; current system is open
gravity feed, with a HW tank next to the upstairs toilet. Rads throughout;
GF pipes are mainly routed in the concrete floor. All pipework is imperial.

Kitchen is on north side, facing boundary fence; neighbour's house is a
garden away, so not too worried about 'clouds of steam' problems.

Bathroom currently has a bath with an electric shower over (Mira, quite
acceptable performance) and is sited next to kitchen, so all HW pipework
will be reasonably short. Obviously the current HW tank must move if it is
to be retained and is to feed the new showers. Its not likely that 2
showers will run simultaneously, so I guess that doesn't rule out a combi?
I had quite acceptable output from a Vaillant following a major renovation
in my first house, so I'm not dead set against them. I do have a bit of an
issue with running pipefuls of cold water just to wash my hands, and
someone here was discussing recirculating the HW to eliminate this - would
'my local plumber' understand the idea? Equally, I would consider
installing electric showers if the sums look better that way.

Usage: 3 adults, with varying schedules (one night worker, one [me] away
Mon-Fri).

I have no idea what the gas or water pressures are - should I try to find
out? Its a hard water area, BTW.

Is there an advantage in changing to a closed system? Will retaining old
rads/pipes potentially cause problems? Should I get a pressure test? If its
agreed that replacing some/all of the CH, should I look at minibore?
microbore? or is bigger better?

And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing, Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option here? And
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?

I daresay I haven't given all the info needed, but for those who have read
this far, your input will be appreciated! It all seemed a lot simpler in
1983 on my last big project... but that was a 'back to the brickwork'
Victorian terrace renovation.

--
Sarah M

"SarahEmmm" wrote :-
I'm pretty sure most plumbers will gaily tell me that I want a combi
boiler
(and maybe moan that it has to be condensing), and either tell me that the
current pipework and rads are fine, or that they are useless, depending on
how much work they want to do.

It has to be condensing now
My rads and pipework are being replaced as the pipework was a single pipe
system not seperate feed and return

GF pipes are mainly routed in the concrete floor. All pipework is
imperial.

check that the pipes are isolated from the concrete (lagged) or corrosion
can result


Bathroom currently has a bath with an electric shower over (Mira, quite
acceptable performance)

Keep an electric shower as its handy for when the boiler packs up



Its not likely that 2
showers will run simultaneously, so I guess that doesn't rule out a combi?
I had quite acceptable output from a Vaillant following a major renovation
in my first house, so I'm not dead set against them. I do have a bit of an
issue with running pipefuls of cold water just to wash my hands

I've just had an Alpha CD50 fitted, this gives instant hot water ( only
dependant on pipe length )
And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing, Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option here?

Check out the Alpha CD50



And
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?

Keep an electric shower

Note :- I have no expertise in this field, i've just done a lot of research
due to having a large extension, the new boiler will be feeding 2 bathrooms
and an ensuite with 2 adults, 2 teenagers, and and OAP and we shower with
the occasional bath. So this combi is ideal, instant mains pressure hot
water and never runs out

HTH - Regards Jeff

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:59:54 +0100, SarahEmmm wrote:

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:22:33 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

SarahEmmm wrote:

snip
I'm pretty sure most plumbers will gaily tell me that I want a combi boiler
(and maybe moan that it has to be condensing), and either tell me that the
current pipework and rads are fine, or that they are useless, depending on
how much work they want to do.

You should be giving out the advice, your analysis is only a tad more
cynical than the reality.

So okay, here we go:

Its a 25 year old chalet, currently with living room, bedroom, kitchen and
bath on GF, 2 beds + toilet on 1st, with loft space above. We will replace
the upstairs toilet and some space in the 1st floor loft into 2 shower
rooms. These will be directly over the kitchen, where the (gas) boiler is
currently. Boiler definitely needs replacing; current system is open
gravity feed, with a HW tank next to the upstairs toilet. Rads throughout;
GF pipes are mainly routed in the concrete floor. All pipework is imperial.

Kitchen is on north side, facing boundary fence; neighbour's house is a
garden away, so not too worried about 'clouds of steam' problems.

Bathroom currently has a bath with an electric shower over (Mira, quite
acceptable performance) and is sited next to kitchen, so all HW pipework
will be reasonably short. Obviously the current HW tank must move if it is
to be retained and is to feed the new showers. Its not likely that 2
showers will run simultaneously, so I guess that doesn't rule out a combi?
I had quite acceptable output from a Vaillant following a major renovation
in my first house, so I'm not dead set against them. I do have a bit of an
issue with running pipefuls of cold water just to wash my hands, and
someone here was discussing recirculating the HW to eliminate this - would
'my local plumber' understand the idea? Equally, I would consider
installing electric showers if the sums look better that way.

Usage: 3 adults, with varying schedules (one night worker, one [me] away
Mon-Fri).

I have no idea what the gas or water pressures are - should I try to find
out? Its a hard water area, BTW.

The only consideration on the gas will be the distance from the meter to
the boiler - you may need an upgrade to the pipe work especially if you
choose a combi.

The water pressure is an issue if it work the electric shower the pressure
must be OK. If the sink cold tap is given 16 ltrs/min then the flow is OK.



Is there an advantage in changing to a closed system?

see The SealedCH FAQ.

Will retaining old
rads/pipes potentially cause problems?
It's worth trying to reuse them as replacing them will be very disruptive.
If the installer is aware they are imperial there should be no problem.


Should I get a pressure test?
Yes.

If its
agreed that replacing some/all of the CH, should I look at minibore?
microbore? or is bigger better?

If you replace the pipes entirely you may find that a microbore system
make for less disruption.


And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing, Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option here?

They are reasonable makes combi, system or plain heating.

And
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?

If you go combi you might as well lose the CW loft tank.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:14:48 +0100, Ed Sirett wrote:

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:59:54 +0100, SarahEmmm wrote:

snip
I have no idea what the gas or water pressures are - should I try to find
out? Its a hard water area, BTW.

The only consideration on the gas will be the distance from the meter to
the boiler - you may need an upgrade to the pipe work especially if you
choose a combi.

The water pressure is an issue if it work the electric shower the pressure
must be OK. If the sink cold tap is given 16 ltrs/min then the flow is OK.


Is there an advantage in changing to a closed system?

see The SealedCH FAQ.

Will retaining old
rads/pipes potentially cause problems?
It's worth trying to reuse them as replacing them will be very disruptive.
If the installer is aware they are imperial there should be no problem.

Should I get a pressure test?
Yes.

If its
agreed that replacing some/all of the CH, should I look at minibore?
microbore? or is bigger better?

If you replace the pipes entirely you may find that a microbore system
make for less disruption.


And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing, Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option here?

They are reasonable makes combi, system or plain heating.

And
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?

If you go combi you might as well lose the CW loft tank.

Many thanks, Ed - I might well print out this thread and hand it to the
plumber

--
Sarah M

SarahEmmm wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:22:33 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk " wrote:

So okay, here we go:

Its a 25 year old chalet, currently with living room, bedroom, kitchen and
bath on GF, 2 beds + toilet on 1st, with loft space above. We will replace
the upstairs toilet and some space in the 1st floor loft into 2 shower
rooms. These will be directly over the kitchen, where the (gas) boiler is
currently. Boiler definitely needs replacing; current system is open
gravity feed, with a HW tank next to the upstairs toilet. Rads throughout;
GF pipes are mainly routed in the concrete floor. All pipework is imperia=
l=2E

Kitchen is on north side, facing boundary fence; neighbour's house is a
garden away, so not too worried about 'clouds of steam' problems.

Bathroom currently has a bath with an electric shower over (Mira, quite
acceptable performance) and is sited next to kitchen, so all HW pipework
will be reasonably short. Obviously the current HW tank must move if it is
to be retained and is to feed the new showers. Its not likely that 2
showers will run simultaneously, so I guess that doesn't rule out a combi?
I had quite acceptable output from a Vaillant following a major renovation
in my first house, so I'm not dead set against them. I do have a bit of an
issue with running pipefuls of cold water just to wash my hands, and
someone here was discussing recirculating the HW to eliminate this - would
'my local plumber' understand the idea? Equally, I would consider
installing electric showers if the sums look better that way.

Usage: 3 adults, with varying schedules (one night worker, one [me] away
Mon-Fri).

I have no idea what the gas or water pressures are - should I try to find
out? Its a hard water area, BTW.

Is there an advantage in changing to a closed system? Will retaining old
rads/pipes potentially cause problems? Should I get a pressure test? If i=
ts
agreed that replacing some/all of the CH, should I look at minibore?
microbore? or is bigger better?

And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing, Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option here? And
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?

I daresay I haven't given all the info needed, but for those who have read
this far, your input will be appreciated! It all seemed a lot simpler in
1983 on my last big project... but that was a 'back to the brickwork'
Victorian terrace renovation.

Sarah,

I renovate house for a living. From what you have said I would do this.
I always go for one-box solutions in heating and DHW, the combi, to
save space, after being bitten by useless thick plumbers, who wanted to
put tanks and cylinders all over the place. They are also highly cost
effective. Thanks to IMM, and others, here, I know that combis can
supply two and more bathrooms. The high flow rate models are usually
floor mounted, and tanks and cylinders are done away with. A combi will
heat the radiators of a very big house.

You say two extra showers and retaining the bathroom, which is 3
showers. Firstly see how much the water mains can deliver in flow. Time
a bucket from the kitchen tap or outside tap to get litres per minute.
If it is below 30 it is worth getting the water mains renewed to give
to greater flow. Once done it is done forever and well worth doing.

Then it is a matter of getting the right combi box. The ultimate and RR
quality, at about =A32.3K is the ACV Heatmaster (see current thread on
this). Look at the Viessmann 333 (also RR quality), Potterton Powermax
and Gledhill Gulfstream. Any of these can go in the loft space (over a
load bearing wall) and supply the three showers with high pressure
mains water. With combis it is the "flow rate" that matters.

In the kitchen look at fitting a Myson Kickpace fan heater, taken off
the CH pipes, under the units. They save a lot of space and warm your
toes by blowing hot air across the floor.

Decide what you "need" and specify that to your heating engineer or
plumber. Know what you want before and don't be persuaded otherwise.

I hope this helps.

In article .com,
wrote:
I always go for one-box solutions in heating and DHW, the combi, to
save space, after being bitten by useless thick plumbers, who wanted to
put tanks and cylinders all over the place.

Strange. All I ever hear of is 'thick plumbers' wanting to rip out
perfectly serviceable 'tanks and cylinders' and replace them with a 'one
box solution'. Because it's the easy way for them to maximise profits, and
they don't give a stuff about performance.

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article .com,
wrote:
I always go for one-box solutions in heating and DHW, the combi, to
save space, after being bitten by useless thick plumbers, who wanted to
put tanks and cylinders all over the place.

Strange. All I ever hear of is 'thick plumbers' wanting to rip out
perfectly serviceable 'tanks and cylinders' and replace them with a 'one
box solution'. Because it's the easy way for them to maximise profits, and
they don't give a stuff about performance.

You made all that up.

In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I always go for one-box solutions in heating and DHW, the combi, to
save space, after being bitten by useless thick plumbers, who wanted
to put tanks and cylinders all over the place.

Strange. All I ever hear of is 'thick plumbers' wanting to rip out
perfectly serviceable 'tanks and cylinders' and replace them with a
'one box solution'. Because it's the easy way for them to maximise
profits, and they don't give a stuff about performance.

You made all that up.

No, pet. It's *exactly* what failed plumbers like you say. Who can't plumb
or design to save their life so want an easy 'one box' solution. But don't
have to care about the later problems of being tied into that maker for
spares and servicing, leaving that to the poor fool who took their advice.

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

You made all that up.

No, pet.

Our inverted Queen is still making things up.

wrote:

Then it is a matter of getting the right combi box. The ultimate and RR
quality, at about £2.3K is the ACV Heatmaster (see current thread on
this). Look at the Viessmann 333 (also RR quality), Potterton Powermax
and Gledhill Gulfstream. Any of these can go in the loft space (over a
load bearing wall) and supply the three showers with high pressure
mains water. With combis it is the "flow rate" that matters.

Doh. You forgot to mention eco-hometech (MAN boilers)
COmes with built in weather compensation and varios models have
significant flow rates right up to 21 l/min !

Not the cheapest but well worth a look.


--
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http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

Dont go for a combi.Yeah there easy to install but get slated as they are always installed in situations they cant cope with.Go for a unvented hot water cylinder of about 170ltr capacity.Couple this up to a 30kw system boiler or there abouts depending on output required and stick with the rads.Cant believe you cant find plumbers who cant specify systems like this.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:46:32 +0100, gasgard wrote:


Ed Sirett Wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:59:54 +0100, SarahEmmm wrote:
-
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:22:33 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"
wrote:
-
SarahEmmm wrote:
-
snip
I'm pretty sure most plumbers will gaily tell me that I want a combi
boiler
(and maybe moan that it has to be condensing), and either tell me that
the
current pipework and rads are fine, or that they are useless,
depending on
how much work they want to do.
-
You should be giving out the advice, your analysis is only a tad more
cynical than the reality.
-
So okay, here we go:

Its a 25 year old chalet, currently with living room, bedroom, kitchen
and
bath on GF, 2 beds + toilet on 1st, with loft space above. We will
replace
the upstairs toilet and some space in the 1st floor loft into 2
shower
rooms. These will be directly over the kitchen, where the (gas) boiler
is
currently. Boiler definitely needs replacing; current system is open
gravity feed, with a HW tank next to the upstairs toilet. Rads
throughout;
GF pipes are mainly routed in the concrete floor. All pipework is
imperial.

Kitchen is on north side, facing boundary fence; neighbour's house is
a
garden away, so not too worried about 'clouds of steam' problems.

Bathroom currently has a bath with an electric shower over (Mira,
quite
acceptable performance) and is sited next to kitchen, so all HW
pipework
will be reasonably short. Obviously the current HW tank must move if
it is
to be retained and is to feed the new showers. Its not likely that 2
showers will run simultaneously, so I guess that doesn't rule out a
combi?
I had quite acceptable output from a Vaillant following a major
renovation
in my first house, so I'm not dead set against them. I do have a bit
of an
issue with running pipefuls of cold water just to wash my hands, and
someone here was discussing recirculating the HW to eliminate this -
would
'my local plumber' understand the idea? Equally, I would consider
installing electric showers if the sums look better that way.

Usage: 3 adults, with varying schedules (one night worker, one [me]
away
Mon-Fri).

I have no idea what the gas or water pressures are - should I try to
find
out? Its a hard water area, BTW.-

The only consideration on the gas will be the distance from the meter
to
the boiler - you may need an upgrade to the pipe work especially if
you
choose a combi.

The water pressure is an issue if it work the electric shower the
pressure
must be OK. If the sink cold tap is given 16 ltrs/min then the flow is
OK.

-

Is there an advantage in changing to a closed system?-

see The SealedCH FAQ.

Will retaining old-
rads/pipes potentially cause problems?-
It's worth trying to reuse them as replacing them will be very
disruptive.
If the installer is aware they are imperial there should be no
problem.


Should I get a pressure test?
Yes.

If its-
agreed that replacing some/all of the CH, should I look at minibore?
microbore? or is bigger better?-

If you replace the pipes entirely you may find that a microbore system
make for less disruption.
-

And what type of boiler? From what I'm hearing,
Worcester/Vaillant/Keston
is the way to go for a combi, but is that really the best option
here?-

They are reasonable makes combi, system or plain heating.

And-
is it better to go for an all-in-one option and lose both the HW and
CW
tanks, or is that putting all my eggs in one basket when it gets ill?
-
If you go combi you might as well lose the CW loft tank.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html


Dont go for a combi.Yeah there easy to install but get slated as they
are always installed in situations they cant cope with.Go for a
unvented hot water cylinder of about 170ltr capacity.Couple this up to
a 30kw system boiler or there abouts depending on output required and
stick with the rads.Cant believe you cant find plumbers who cant
specify systems like this.

This might be an excellant system for a newly built house. [With
perhaps a rather smaller HW cylinder - 170 ltr is the size I have used for
a 6 bedroom - 3 bathroom house with a 37kW boiler]. This is, IMHO,
somewhat OTT for an existing 3 bedroom house. The cost and disruption of
digging up the water main to provide a minimum 25mm mains supply could
easily be comparable to the rest of the job.

You are welcome to your view but I think it is arguably OTT.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"gasgard" wrote in message
...

Dont go for a combi.Yeah there easy to install but get slated as they
are always installed in situations they cant cope with.

What situation wopuld they be?

Go for a unvented hot water cylinder
of about 170ltr capacity.

Misadvise. Yes, and get a an expensive BBA approved plumber to fit it, and
every year have him expensively service it too. A "BBA" approved man has to
service it, not a corgi man. Heat banks are superior and don't require a
yearly service. Over 20 years the service cost of an unvented cylinder will
be far more that the original cost. Skip a service and have a serious water
leak and the insurance company will not pay up. An unvented cyldiner is a
waste of time as better alternatives are around.

Couple this up to
a 30kw system boiler or there abouts depending on output required and
stick with the rads.Cant believe you cant find plumbers who cant
specify systems like this.

Best they stick with the high flowrate one-box solution. The Viessman 333
and others have already been mentioned on this thread. The wall mounted
Alpha cd50 is quite good too.