The time has come to replace my CH system and bathroom and I have been
reading up and googling around to try and get to grips with the
options available. Some advice would be appreciated. This will not be
a d.i.y. job

The house is a mid thirties 3 bed semi with a kitchen extension and
bedroom above. The heating system is the usual back boiler
arrangement, nine rads, that dates back to the sixties but with a
boiler replacement made in the early eighties. In other words, on its
last legs.

This property was owned by my parents before me and was in poor shape
when I took it over. In the last six years I have been gradually
refurbishing, windows, doors, rewire, kitchen. The decoration can wait
as I want to concentrate on the structure and main systems. CH and
bathroom next, maybe not the order I should have gone.

My first thoughts were to replace the CH with a similar back boiler
type, the problem here is the airing cupboard and what it contains.
Situated in a corner of the main back bedroom, everything is old, old,
old. Its huge and the state inside is awful. I have tried cleaning it
up but with limited results. The cupboard itself is falling apart and
the plasterwork inside is hanging off. The whole thing has to go and
be properly repaired. At least I will gain space. Additionally, I do
not want to be investing long term in a system that may be going into
history.

One possibility is to build a new airing cupboard in the newer fourth
bedroom, it would be next to the bathroom wall and above the kitchen.
The other possibility is downstairs in the "old kitchen" directly
below the bathroom. This area measures seven by nine and although
refurbished contains no furnishings. This area is joined to the new
kitchen by a six foot archway and as a result there is a handy looking
corner formed by the outside wall and the arch wall, measuring 700 x
600mm.

So, what type of system to go for? I haven't discounted a combi, but I
doubt that would be the best solution in this size of property. I was
thinking of a sealed system, but there are the annual costs to
consider, also everywhere I read up there seems to be an implied
question over the safety aspect. Kabooom is not a good selling point.
That leaves me thinking of a vented thermal store type. I have
discovered that there are two types, direct and indirect.

I read up on the Albion site that the direct type goes upstairs and
the indirect can go anywhere, apart from the little expansion tank
which needs to be high up. So where do I put the boiler? In the
kitchen area or in with the cylinder? Then there are the integrated
systems such as Gledhill. What I have failed to find reference to is
what electrical supply is needed for any of these things.

Cost is an issue of course, but I want to get this done properly.

At the moment I am rather confused and undecided.

Your comments and advice will be very welcome.

A.Punter@home wrote:

The time has come to replace my CH system and bathroom and I have been
reading up and googling around to try and get to grips with the
options available. Some advice would be appreciated. This will not be
a d.i.y. job

Then you'll have difficulty finding someone to put in something that isn't
either conventional boiler + cylinder, combi or boiler + unvented

So, what type of system to go for? I haven't discounted a combi, but I
doubt that would be the best solution in this size of property.

How many bathrooms & showers? Most people find a combi fine for a single
bathroom house. If you later find you really have to fill a bath in 59
seconds you can always get a cylinder added to the system (or DIY it) then.

I was
thinking of a sealed system, but there are the annual costs to
consider, also everywhere I read up there seems to be an implied
question over the safety aspect.

There's a very remote risk of a very serious accident. Personally I think
that's worth avoiding if there's a viable alternative, but then I don't
think nuclear power is a good idea either :-)

Kabooom is not a good selling point.

Most buyers won't worry about that.

That leaves me thinking of a vented thermal store type. I have
discovered that there are two types, direct and indirect.

I read up on the Albion site that the direct type goes upstairs and
the indirect can go anywhere, apart from the little expansion tank
which needs to be high up. So where do I put the boiler? In the
kitchen area or in with the cylinder? Then there are the integrated
systems such as Gledhill.

There are also systems where the heat store is used to provide hot water for
the radiators. This gives quick heatup for space heating but you need a
bigger store for the same hot water capacity, and unless you're in the
habit of coming home to an unheated house at odd times it doesn't seem that
useful to me. If you control your space heating with a programmable
thermostat so the house doesn't get perishingly cold you don't need a very
rapid warm up.

Thermal stores are particularly useful where you have other sources of heat
such as solar, heat pump or solid fuel which can add to the store of heat
and be topped up by the gas boiler.

What I have failed to find reference to is
what electrical supply is needed for any of these things.

None of them need much power - except for backup immersion heaters.
All the stored hot water systems (conventional cylinder, unvented and
thermal store) have the advantage that you can use electricity for heating
your water when the boiler breaks down (which it must do sometimes).


Cost is an issue of course, but I want to get this done properly.

A combi will be cheapest, and I'd be inclined to get a good one e.g.
Vaillant or Bosch Worcester.

A.Punter@home wrote in message news:42f64e09.34970492@localhost...
The time has come to replace my CH system and bathroom and I have been
reading up and googling around to try and get to grips with the
options available. Some advice would be appreciated. This will not be
a d.i.y. job

The house is a mid thirties 3 bed semi with a kitchen extension and
bedroom above. The heating system is the usual back boiler
arrangement, nine rads, that dates back to the sixties but with a
boiler replacement made in the early eighties. In other words, on its
last legs.

This property was owned by my parents before me and was in poor shape
when I took it over. In the last six years I have been gradually
refurbishing, windows, doors, rewire, kitchen. The decoration can wait
as I want to concentrate on the structure and main systems. CH and
bathroom next, maybe not the order I should have gone.

My first thoughts were to replace the CH with a similar back boiler
type, the problem here is the airing cupboard and what it contains.
Situated in a corner of the main back bedroom, everything is old, old,
old. Its huge and the state inside is awful. I have tried cleaning it
up but with limited results. The cupboard itself is falling apart and
the plasterwork inside is hanging off. The whole thing has to go and
be properly repaired. At least I will gain space. Additionally, I do
not want to be investing long term in a system that may be going into
history.

One possibility is to build a new airing cupboard in the newer fourth
bedroom, it would be next to the bathroom wall and above the kitchen.
The other possibility is downstairs in the "old kitchen" directly
below the bathroom. This area measures seven by nine and although
refurbished contains no furnishings. This area is joined to the new
kitchen by a six foot archway and as a result there is a handy looking
corner formed by the outside wall and the arch wall, measuring 700 x
600mm.

So, what type of system to go for? I haven't discounted a combi, but I
doubt that would be the best solution in this size of property.

One bathroom? A high flowrate combi will do the lot. Look at the Alpha
CD50, that will all for you, including high pressure shower.

I was thinking of a sealed system, but there
are the annual costs to consider,

...a normal service cost. What do you mean by sealed system? Unvented
cylinder?

also everywhere I read up there seems to be an implied
question over the safety aspect. Kabooom is not a good selling point.

What safety aspect are you on about?

That leaves me thinking of a vented thermal store type. I have
discovered that there are two types, direct and indirect.

I read up on the Albion site that the direct type goes upstairs and
the indirect can go anywhere, apart from the little expansion tank
which needs to be high up. So where do I put the boiler? In the
kitchen area or in with the cylinder? Then there are the integrated
systems such as Gledhill. What I have failed to find reference to is
what electrical supply is needed for any of these things.

Electric for the Gledhill? Gledhill will advise for the Switch electric
backup. Best have the boiler near the store away from the kitchen.

Look at the Ideal Istor. One box solution, floor mounted.

Cost is an issue of course, but I want to get this done properly.

At the moment I am rather confused and undecided.

Your comments and advice will be very welcome.

I would advise on a one box solution. Gledhill Gulsteam 2000, Ideal Istor,
Potterton Powermax, Worcester Bosch Greestar HighFlow, Viessman (v expensive
but RR quaklity). All floor mounted. The wall mounted Alpha CD50 combi
will do your house too, and take up far less room.

All are sealed CH systems, No header tank in loft, and give mains pressure
hot water. Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and flow and all
soved. Just take your pick.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning! At least we've got *some* caveats on the use of a
combi.

Don't forget the need for a decent gas supply though!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:01:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.


IME, those who can, do; those who can't, teach.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:01:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.


IME, those who can, do; those who can't, teach.


and those who can't do either become consultants...
--
David

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:01:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

IME, those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

But your IME is wrong...as usual.

"David" wrote in message
...
In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:01:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

IME, those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

and those who can't do either become consultants...

Bertie, did you just make that up?

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:44:18 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


also everywhere I read up there seems to be an implied
question over the safety aspect. Kabooom is not a good selling point.

What safety aspect are you on about?

If the safety valve becomes jammed and the system overheats it will
explode.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

Even teachers have to *learn* to keep up to date! g

It is a very sad person who believes he has nothing to learn!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Make sure you have a decent mains pressure and
flow and all soved. Just take your pick.

Sounds like he's learning!

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

Even teachers have to *learn* to keep up to date! g

Yep. and boy am I up to date.

It is a very sad person who believes he has nothing to learn!

Yep.

"s--p--o--n--i--x" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:44:18 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


also everywhere I read up there seems to be an implied
question over the safety aspect. Kabooom is not a good selling point.

What safety aspect are you on about?

If the safety valve becomes jammed and the system overheats it will
explode.

The unvented cylinder then.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:08:27 +0100, David
wrote:


and those who can't do either become consultants...

Expert - "ex" is something that has been and a "spurt" is a drip under
pressure.

(:-)

Graham

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

Even teachers have to *learn* to keep up to date! g

Yep. and boy am I up to date.

Yup. From adverts.

It is a very sad person who believes he has nothing to learn!

Yep.

Those who know they have something to learn don't just accept what makers
tell them in their advertising. They understand the principles so are able
to make up their own minds about the claims - and modify them for the
practical application.

With electronics, makers will give typical and absolute maximum ratings.
You tend to take the 'absolute maximum' as the norm, whereas sensible
engineers use the 'typical' one.

Of course you won't have a clue what I'm on about as usual.

Is your Prius still doing 23 mpg, or have you sold it?

--
*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am the teacher. I don't learn from the likes of you.

Even teachers have to *learn* to keep up to date! g

Yep. and boy am I up to date.

Yup.

Thank you

snip drivel