I've got an old toilet which I have been trying to ignore failing as I plan
to redecorate the bathroom and replace the entire suite at that time, how
ever it has been giving lots of problems flushing often taking 10-15
attempts. So can wait no longer, replacing the toilet is not an option
because that would mean replacing the tiles around the toilet which I can't
get any more, in fact I cant even get that shape any more, So I guess I need
to fix the toilet.



Looking in the water reservoir I can see a back bowl shaped object I guess
about 6 inches in diameter. The base of the plunger is exiting at this point
and the toilet handle is attached to that

On the right hand side of the plunger container there is a U shaped pipe
with a flattish top. The other end of this pipe is connected to the bottom
part of the reservoir where an approximately 1 foot pipe connects to the
back of the actual toilet. My question is can I still get new siphon. There
is one on Screw fix looks something like it

http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/95/p2635095_l.jpg



Is it lightly to fit? both pipe sizes and physically in the reservoir
changes and I'm stuffed?

Also I have quite a big water reservoir compared to modern toilets will a
modern siphon still work as well as mine did originally? Or will the water
through put be limited.

Lastly when I replace the siphon am I lightly to need any other pieces such
as a WC Pan Connector Straight





Thanks

news-text.dsl.pipex.com wrote:
I've got an old toilet which I have been trying to ignore failing as
I plan to redecorate the bathroom and replace the entire suite at
that time, how ever it has been giving lots of problems flushing
often taking 10-15 attempts. So can wait no longer, replacing the
toilet is not an option because that would mean replacing the tiles
around the toilet which I can't get any more, in fact I cant even get
that shape any more, So I guess I need to fix the toilet.

SNIP

Problems of this nature can be caused because their isn't enough head above
the siphon system - how far is the water level from the overflow pipe in the
cistern - if its more than a few inches then try adjusting the ballcock
Jon

"news-text.dsl.pipex.com" wrote in message
...
I've got an old toilet which I have been trying to ignore failing as
I plan
to redecorate the bathroom and replace the entire suite at that
time, how
ever it has been giving lots of problems flushing often taking
10-15
attempts. So can wait no longer, replacing the toilet is not an
option
because that would mean replacing the tiles around the toilet which
I can't
get any more, in fact I cant even get that shape any more, So I
guess I need
to fix the toilet.



Looking in the water reservoir I can see a back bowl shaped object I
guess
about 6 inches in diameter. The base of the plunger is exiting at
this point
and the toilet handle is attached to that

On the right hand side of the plunger container there is a U shaped
pipe
with a flattish top. The other end of this pipe is connected to the
bottom
part of the reservoir where an approximately 1 foot pipe connects to
the
back of the actual toilet. My question is can I still get new
siphon. There
is one on Screw fix looks something like it

http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/95/p2635095_l.jpg



Is it lightly to fit? both pipe sizes and physically in the
reservoir
changes and I'm stuffed?

Also I have quite a big water reservoir compared to modern toilets
will a
modern siphon still work as well as mine did originally? Or will the
water
through put be limited.

Lastly when I replace the siphon am I lightly to need any other
pieces such
as a WC Pan Connector Straight





Thanks



There is usually a polythene diaphragm that forms the seal for the
piston that starts the syphon off, and after a while it wears away. If
you turn off the water, do a sucessful flush to empty the tank, and
remove the gubbins all will be revealed. My local (rather good)
plumbers merchant stock them and they cost (last time I bought one)
the princely sum of ten pence ! As I remember there are two sizes &
shapes but it is only very thin polythene sheet so at a pinch you
could cut one out with a craft knife.

AWEM

On the right hand side of the plunger container there is a U shaped pipe
with a flattish top. The other end of this pipe is connected to the bottom
part of the reservoir where an approximately 1 foot pipe connects to the
back of the actual toilet. My question is can I still get new siphon. There
is one on Screw fix looks something like it
http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/95/p2635095_l.jpg
Is it lightly to fit? both pipe sizes and physically in the reservoir
changes and I'm stuffed?

I fitted one of these recently, and with one proviso it went surprisingly
easy (i`m useless at DIY too). For the same of the couple of quid it`ll
cost you to have a go, its worth a shot :-p

The proviso is the black bits shown on the main "tank" of the siphon -
they don`t hold in place of their own accord if you want to seal the top
one to have a "bigger" flush - I just used a but of black insulating tape
in the inside over the hole, and kinda wrangled some around the outside
to make sure the black piece stayed in place, and its been find for
several months.

Lastly when I replace the siphon am I lightly to need any other pieces such
as a WC Pan Connector Straight

I didn`t have to - the bottom of the siphon has a seal that my flush pipe
went into just fine.

Incidentally, the other reply mentions water levels - in my case (sounded
very much like yours) it was the plastic membrane that had fallen apart -
as you pull the handle it lifts a rigid inverted "T" shaped piece of
plastic, and above that within the main body of the siphon is, for want
of a better word, a piece of cheap sh!t flexible plastic, which initially
"blocks" the main body of the tank to move the water over the top of the
siphon, then flaps out of the way once the flush starts.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

"Jonathan Pearson" wrote in message
...
news-text.dsl.pipex.com wrote:
I've got an old toilet which I have been trying to ignore failing as
I plan to redecorate the bathroom and replace the entire suite at
that time, how ever it has been giving lots of problems flushing
often taking 10-15 attempts. So can wait no longer, replacing the
toilet is not an option because that would mean replacing the tiles
around the toilet which I can't get any more, in fact I cant even get
that shape any more, So I guess I need to fix the toilet.

SNIP

Problems of this nature can be caused because their isn't enough head
above the siphon system - how far is the water level from the overflow
pipe in the cistern - if its more than a few inches then try adjusting the
ballcock
Jon

Its about 1/2 inch away form the overflow pipe, in fact its touching the
rubber seal round the overflow pipe.
When I raised the water to this height it appeared to work better for a
while , and every so often it will flush really well.
How ever some times even through the Cistern is full of water pulling on the
hardly it feels like there is nothing there. Then a few attempts later it
will suddenly flush. But a lot of the time it seems to start to flush then
just dies out with out becoming a full flush

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:16:42 +0100,it is alleged that Colin Wilson
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


Incidentally, the other reply mentions water levels - in my case (sounded
very much like yours) it was the plastic membrane that had fallen apart -
as you pull the handle it lifts a rigid inverted "T" shaped piece of
plastic, and above that within the main body of the siphon is, for want
of a better word, a piece of cheap sh!t flexible plastic, which initially
"blocks" the main body of the tank to move the water over the top of the
siphon, then flaps out of the way once the flush starts.

This was also my thought with regard to the post elsewhere in this
thread that it 'feels like pulling nothing'. The flap valve is usually
thick PVC or polyethylene sheet and years of exposure to mains water
seems to rot it (chlorine maybe?).

I did a successful repair on one some years back using heavy guage
poly sheet (actually part of a building sand bag!).

It lasted several years until the toilet was replaced.

--
The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!",
but "That's funny..."
- Isaac Asimov

In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:
There is usually a polythene diaphragm that forms the seal for the
piston that starts the syphon off, and after a while it wears away. If
you turn off the water, do a sucessful flush to empty the tank, and
remove the gubbins all will be revealed. My local (rather good)
plumbers merchant stock them and they cost (last time I bought one)
the princely sum of ten pence ! As I remember there are two sizes &
shapes but it is only very thin polythene sheet so at a pinch you
could cut one out with a craft knife.

If it's an old loo, it might be a rubber diaphragm. These can perish
after a long time, and either bits break off, or it stops bending
out of the way when the flush starts off and throttles it.

Another possibility is an air leak into the syphon. It could have
broken somewhere, or the plunger hole might have worn too large
(although modern ones capture water around it to maintain the
air-tight seal).

If it had never worked right, I might also suggest that the cistern
and pan had a mismatched capacity, e.g. a 6 litre cistern trying
to flush a 10 litre pan. However, given it did work at one point,
this can probably be ruled out.

--
Andrew Gabriel