Hi All

Any dishwasher experts out there - our 3-year-old Bosh is playing
silly beggars - and I'm not making any progress in fixing it.....

Background - it's a Bosch Exxcel, runs from our well-water supply via
a storage tank in the roof. The water tested slightly high in nirtates
- but not sure of the harndess of the water.

Machine worked fine for nealy 3 years. Then, quite suddenly, one day
it produced a milky-white deposit on washed items - particularly on
glasses. It still seems to clean the items OK - but just leaves this
irritating 'film' on the glasses.

We used to use the 3-in-one Tesco tablets - which worked fine until
the problem. In an attempt to improve things we're now using separate
salt, rinse aid and powder detergent.

Yesterday, in desperation, I used a teaspoon of the cleaning powder
that I use in winemaking (as well as the normal dishwasher detergent)
- and that produced beautifully clean glasses. Today tried the usual
detergent on its own - and we're back to milky glasses again.
(FWIW the brewing cleanser contains 5% non-ionic surfactants, 6.5%
chlorine-based bleaching agent and 20% phosphates ).

I've found out how to adjust the water softener - and currently have
it set to maximum (7) - and rinse aid also set to maximum. We normally
wash on the 'auto' setting.

I've checked & cleaned the filters inside the machine - all seems OK,
and the machine is emptying OK.

What I can't understand is why it used to work fine - just with the
3-in-one tablets - but now it's very much 'hit & miss' as to whether
it leaves the glasses clean or not.... The white film can be wiped off
with a dishcloth - but that's not the point

The manual as supplied with the dishwasher is worse than useless, and
downright misleading in some parts..... and I'm not sufficiently
experienced in dishwashers to know if I'm looking at a component fault
/ blockage etc - or it it's down to 'user error'....

There seems to be so many variables (water softner setting, rinse aid
setting, detergent quantity & type, program setting) - and I'm getting
confused / making no progress...

Surely it's not worn out after only 3 years .....??
Heavy hints are being dropped along the lines of 'If it's not doing
the job properly then it should be repaced' (think she means the
dishwasher....!)

Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved !

Thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:46:50 +0100, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the
papers and the wrote:

Hi All

Any dishwasher experts out there - our 3-year-old Bosh is playing
silly beggars - and I'm not making any progress in fixing it.....

Try adjusting the salt and rise aid settings from the current max
setting to a minimum setting.

Try adjusting one setting at a time and see what happens.

Apart from anything it will help to prove whether the salt and rise
aid units are working properly.

Over use of rince aid can particularly cause clouding.

Graham

"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message news
Hi All

snipped
Thanks in advance
Adrian

The white deposits on glass are no fault of your machines. This normally
happens to glass when the machine isn't washing with hot enough water. The
detergent isn't at fault either, but is the cause of the white salts left on
the glasses. Try using a slightly hotter wash when you have glass in the
washer, and this should stop the salts being left on the surfaces of the
dishes.

Hi Graham

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:10:32 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:46:50 +0100, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the
papers and the wrote:

Hi All

Any dishwasher experts out there - our 3-year-old Bosh is playing
silly beggars - and I'm not making any progress in fixing it.....

Try adjusting the salt and rise aid settings from the current max
setting to a minimum setting.

Try adjusting one setting at a time and see what happens.

OK - will do - and I'll keep a note of what happens this time !

So back the rinse aid off to minimum.
Check results
Then back the softener off to minimum (?leave the rinse aid at minimum
?)
Check results

Will report back g


Apart from anything it will help to prove whether the salt and rise
aid units are working properly.

Good thought


Over use of rince aid can particularly cause clouding.

I didn't know that - thought that it was a case of 'the more the
better'..... as I said - I'm not an expert in dishwashers !

Many thanks - I'll have a twidle and report back after a couple of
days - we tend to run the beast once a day

Thanks
Adrian

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Hi Wallop

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:16:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message news
Hi All

snipped
Thanks in advance
Adrian

The white deposits on glass are no fault of your machines.

Thanks g

This normally
happens to glass when the machine isn't washing with hot enough water. The
detergent isn't at fault either, but is the cause of the white salts left on
the glasses. Try using a slightly hotter wash when you have glass in the
washer, and this should stop the salts being left on the surfaces of the
dishes.

There is a setting for 'intensive drying' - which 'increases the
temperature during the rinse aid stage which gives better drying
results' - is that the one ?

How much detergent should I be adding - the detergent 'bin' is marked
in 15ml / 25ml and 40ml - but nowhere does it tell you how much you
should use.....? Told you I'm not an expert !

On 'auto' wash the temperature is 55 - 65 centigrade, next one 'down'
is Eco - which is wash at 50 and rinse aid at 65... don't know which I
should be using. Don't normally was pots & pans - normally just
plates, cutlery, glasses....

Many thanks for your suggestions - I'll try what the other kind person
suggested first and then see if I can do anything about the wash
temperature.

Thanks
Adrian
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"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message ...
Hi Wallop

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:16:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the
wrote
in message news
Hi All

snipped
Thanks in advance
Adrian

The white deposits on glass are no fault of your machines.

Thanks g

This normally
happens to glass when the machine isn't washing with hot enough water.
The
detergent isn't at fault either, but is the cause of the white salts left
on
the glasses. Try using a slightly hotter wash when you have glass in the
washer, and this should stop the salts being left on the surfaces of the
dishes.

There is a setting for 'intensive drying' - which 'increases the
temperature during the rinse aid stage which gives better drying
results' - is that the one ?

How much detergent should I be adding - the detergent 'bin' is marked
in 15ml / 25ml and 40ml - but nowhere does it tell you how much you
should use.....? Told you I'm not an expert !

On 'auto' wash the temperature is 55 - 65 centigrade, next one 'down'
is Eco - which is wash at 50 and rinse aid at 65... don't know which I
should be using. Don't normally was pots & pans - normally just
plates, cutlery, glasses....

Many thanks for your suggestions - I'll try what the other kind person
suggested first and then see if I can do anything about the wash
temperature.

Wasn't there a very similar thread to this a couple of months back (-ish)?
If I were you I would go to Google newsgroups archive and look back through
the uk.d-i-y posts as far back as three months to see if you can spot
another
'dishwasher-leaving-deposits' type thread.

Andy.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:46:50 +0100, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the
papers and the wrote:

Hi All

stuff snipped

Hi,

Try running a cycle with dishwasher cleaner and check if there are any
filters that need cleaning.

If the softener hasn't been used for ages it might take a while for it
to regenerate.

Also try liquid gel detergent, it has similar ingredients to the
brewing cleanser you mentioned.

If liquid works well, use the minimum that gives clean dishes, to be
kind to your dishwasher and glasses, cutlery etc.

Then try reducing the softener a little as long as cleaning results
are maintained.

Have a look at:

http://www.dishwasher-care.org.uk/

cheers,
Pete.

Hi All

Following up my own post - just for the sake of the achives g

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:46:50 +0100, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the
papers and the wrote:

Hi All

Any dishwasher experts out there - our 3-year-old Bosh is playing
silly beggars - and I'm not making any progress in fixing it.....

Background - it's a Bosch Exxcel, runs from our well-water supply via
a storage tank in the roof. The water tested slightly high in nirtates
- but not sure of the harndess of the water.

Machine worked fine for nealy 3 years. Then, quite suddenly, one day
it produced a milky-white deposit on washed items - particularly on
glasses. It still seems to clean the items OK - but just leaves this
irritating 'film' on the glasses.

We used to use the 3-in-one Tesco tablets - which worked fine until
the problem. In an attempt to improve things we're now using separate
salt, rinse aid and powder detergent.

Yesterday, in desperation, I used a teaspoon of the cleaning powder
that I use in winemaking (as well as the normal dishwasher detergent)
- and that produced beautifully clean glasses. Today tried the usual
detergent on its own - and we're back to milky glasses again.
(FWIW the brewing cleanser contains 5% non-ionic surfactants, 6.5%
chlorine-based bleaching agent and 20% phosphates ).

I've found out how to adjust the water softener - and currently have
it set to maximum (7) - and rinse aid also set to maximum. We normally
wash on the 'auto' setting.

I've checked & cleaned the filters inside the machine - all seems OK,
and the machine is emptying OK.

What I can't understand is why it used to work fine - just with the
3-in-one tablets - but now it's very much 'hit & miss' as to whether
it leaves the glasses clean or not.... The white film can be wiped off
with a dishcloth - but that's not the point

The manual as supplied with the dishwasher is worse than useless, and
downright misleading in some parts..... and I'm not sufficiently
experienced in dishwashers to know if I'm looking at a component fault
/ blockage etc - or it it's down to 'user error'....

There seems to be so many variables (water softner setting, rinse aid
setting, detergent quantity & type, program setting) - and I'm getting
confused / making no progress...

Surely it's not worn out after only 3 years .....??
Heavy hints are being dropped along the lines of 'If it's not doing
the job properly then it should be repaced' (think she means the
dishwasher....!)

Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved !

Thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

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Thanks to everybody who made helpful suggestions.
I did as suggested - and wound the salt and rinse aid back to minimum
- seems as if it's the rinse aid that was causing the white deposits.

Then thought a bit and tested the water hardness (cheap & cheerful kit
from Screwfix - never thought of looking there !)

Turns out the water from our well is fairly hard - 21 on the Clarke
scale - so set the salt dispenser accordingly. This setting is done by
holding down one of the front-panel buttons while turning on the mains
power - but it's not the button shown in the Bosch manual - it's the
next one along ! Good eh ?

Rinse aid now set at about 2 - scale goes from 1 - 6 - and glasses are
95% perfect. Possibly room for a little more tinkering with settings -
but a great improvement on the previous situation.

I'm also using a lot less detergent than before - although I can't
seem to find how much 'should' be used - seems to be 'suck it &
see'....

Anyway - many thanks for the advice - peace is restored g

Adrian
Suffolk UK
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