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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Paint terminology help please...
What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat?
Looking to paint doors, skirting, and facings - all are now striped. Was looking at http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...93859&id=12383 and http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...93763&id=18002, with the later much cheaper (I have 5 doors inc. facings and skirting in 5 rooms to paint). Plan it to finish with https://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat...94082&id=11842. TIA. |
#2
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"JoeJoe" wrote in
: What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? I think that paint is hard to find these days mike |
#3
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In article ,
JoeJoe wrote: What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? The primer is to give good adhesion to the material. Hence different ones for wood and metal, etc. Undercoat at one time was always near the same colour as the top coat but less expensive, so made the job slightly cheaper than using two or more coats of top to get the depth of colour. But things are a bit blurred these days. ;-) -- *INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#4
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mike ring wrote:
"JoeJoe" wrote in : What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? I think that paint is hard to find these days mike ? I can find lots of it. How much and what type do you want? Dave |
#5
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The primer is to give good adhesion to the material. Hence different ones for wood and metal, etc. Undercoat at one time was always near the same colour as the top coat but less expensive, so made the job slightly cheaper than using two or more coats of top to get the depth of colour. But things are a bit blurred these days. ;-) What Dave said. The need to achieve a good bond is still with us, but modern paints have such good covering power they make undercoat almost superfluous. Dave |
#6
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"JoeJoe" wrote in message ... What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Traditional painting uses a three coat system: primer, to prepare an unpainted surface to receive paint; undercoat, to build up the colour; and top coat, to provide protection to the whole. Modern paints tend to be one coat paints, which achieve colour build and protection in the same paint. If you want the paint job to last, buy Dulux. Colin Bignell |
#7
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"David Lang" wrote in message k... The primer is to give good adhesion to the material. Hence different ones for wood and metal, etc. Undercoat at one time was always near the same colour as the top coat but less expensive, so made the job slightly cheaper than using two or more coats of top to get the depth of colour. But things are a bit blurred these days. ;-) What Dave said. The need to achieve a good bond is still with us, but modern paints have such good covering power they make undercoat almost superfluous. Depends on what you are painting, some surfaces still require the use of a primer and then undercoat. |
#8
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"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... "JoeJoe" wrote in message ... What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Traditional painting uses a three coat system: primer, to prepare an unpainted surface to receive paint; undercoat, to build up the colour; and top coat, to provide protection to the whole. Modern paints tend to be one coat paints, which achieve colour build and protection in the same paint. Err not IME, totally wrong about one coat paint, you still need to use undercoat (if not primer) were the surface has not been painted before or the paint has been removed, 'one coat' paint is for final top coat / *re-finishing*. |
#9
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In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: Traditional painting uses a three coat system: primer, to prepare an unpainted surface to receive paint; undercoat, to build up the colour; and top coat, to provide protection to the whole. Modern paints tend to be one coat paints, which achieve colour build and protection in the same paint. Err not IME, totally wrong about one coat paint, you still need to use undercoat (if not primer) were the surface has not been painted before or the paint has been removed, 'one coat' paint is for final top coat / *re-finishing*. Don't think anyone is disputing you still need a primer on a bare surface. It's the undercoat which may be dispensable. -- *Geeks shall inherit the earth * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#10
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JoeJoe wrote:
What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Looking to paint doors, skirting, and facings - all are now striped. You're supposed to paint it on all over in one coat, not stripe it! Primer is supposed to "stick" well to the timber (or whatever). Undercoat covers and is very opaque. Gloss is the final thin "shine". I wouldn't buy cheap paint. |
#11
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David Lang wrote:
The need to achieve a good bond is still with us, but modern paints have such good covering power they make undercoat almost superfluous. It's also a problem. Great thick coats of D-I-Y "one coat", "non- drip" and similar can give rise to problems. |
#12
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JoeJoe wrote:
What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Primer is there to stick to the ioriginal surface and seal it and possibly to create a smooth surface - i.e a good primer sticks well to teh (wood) is thick and can be sanded to give a toally grain free finish. The unedrcaot is there to basically provide MOST of tghe coulr - its teh bit that reflects most of te light. The top coat is there to provide the corect surface finsih and be the main defense against damage - so it might be hard and glossy, but often has less pigment in it than the undercoat. Looking to paint doors, skirting, and facings - all are now striped. Was looking at http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...93859&id=12383 and http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...93763&id=18002, with the later much cheaper (I have 5 doors inc. facings and skirting in 5 rooms to paint). Plan it to finish with https://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat...94082&id=11842. TIA. |
#13
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In article , "The
Natural Philosopher" says... JoeJoe wrote: What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Primer is there to stick to the ioriginal surface and seal it and possibly to create a smooth surface - i.e a good primer sticks well to teh (wood) is thick and can be sanded to give a toally grain free finish. The unedrcaot is there to basically provide MOST of tghe coulr - its teh bit that reflects most of te light. Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. |
#14
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Rob Morley wrote:
Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. You shouldn't "sand" primer at all. |
#16
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Really traditional paint is made of linseed oil and pigment. On bare
wood you first put on a coat of linseed oil then three coats of paint. All the same stuff - no primer and undercoat. Buy Sweedish Allback linseed paint from Holkham Paints (Their website has lots of good information: http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/why.html ) It's expensive but the manufacturers say you won't need to add another coat for 14 years. Which makes it very cheap. Plus it's genuinely breathable so the wood can dry out. Modern paint cracks, lets water in and traps it leading to rot and flaked paint. "The most expensive paint is cheap paint" |
#17
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Rob Morley wrote:
Chris Bacon says... Rob Morley wrote: Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. You shouldn't "sand" primer at all. I never said you should :-) I didn't say that you said you should. Leave it there? |
#18
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... "JoeJoe" wrote in message ... What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Traditional painting uses a three coat system: primer, to prepare an unpainted surface to receive paint; undercoat, to build up the colour; and top coat, to provide protection to the whole. Modern paints tend to be one coat paints, which achieve colour build and protection in the same paint. Err not IME, totally wrong about one coat paint, you still need to use undercoat (if not primer) were the surface has not been painted before or the paint has been removed, 'one coat' paint is for final top coat / *re-finishing*. The statement that one coat achieves colour build and protection in the same paint means that it replaces both the undercoat and the top coat used in traditional systems. Primer will still be required if the base material is unpainted. You should not use undercoat as the base coat on an unpainted surface and you shouldn't need it over primer if you are using a one coat paint. Colin Bignell |
#19
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Biff wrote;
"The most expensive paint is cheap paint" Ain't that the truth...... Dave |
#20
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Rob Morley wrote:
In article , "The Natural Philosopher" says... JoeJoe wrote: What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Primer is there to stick to the ioriginal surface and seal it and possibly to create a smooth surface - i.e a good primer sticks well to teh (wood) is thick and can be sanded to give a toally grain free finish. The unedrcaot is there to basically provide MOST of tghe coulr - its teh bit that reflects most of te light. Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. Depends. I use filler primer a LOT on stuff that has to have an immaculate finish. It is often the best place to fill grain. Undercoat is only there for colour. |
#21
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Chris Bacon wrote:
Rob Morley wrote: Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. You shouldn't "sand" primer at all. Depends what primer and what you are doing. Alot of promers raise the wood grain, and need sanding and a second coat - especially cellulose. When painting car bodies and fibreglass we uwse many primer coats to cover up scratches and blemishes, all rubbed down. I used three coats of acrlyic primer, rubbed down, on the bathroom T & G. That came up immmaculate after another undercoat rubbed down, and two top coats, the first one rubbed down. Of course if you want a crap finish, none of that is necessary. |
#22
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In article , "The Natural
Philosopher" says... Rob Morley wrote: In article , "The Natural Philosopher" says... JoeJoe wrote: What is the difference between a primer and an undercoat? Primer is there to stick to the ioriginal surface and seal it and possibly to create a smooth surface - i.e a good primer sticks well to teh (wood) is thick and can be sanded to give a toally grain free finish. The unedrcaot is there to basically provide MOST of tghe coulr - its teh bit that reflects most of te light. Primer doesn't give much build, it's the undercoat that you sand for a smooth finish. Depends. I use filler primer a LOT on stuff that has to have an immaculate finish. It is often the best place to fill grain. Primer filler is a special case because it's designed to build, not just to seal like ordinary primer. |
#23
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
.... snipped Depends. I use filler primer a LOT on stuff that has to have an immaculate finish. It is often the best place to fill grain. Undercoat is only there for colour. Filler primer sounds useful but I don't recall seeing it - is it a specialist thing or have I just not recognised it in the sheds? Dave |
#24
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Dave wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: ... snipped Depends. I use filler primer a LOT on stuff that has to have an immaculate finish. It is often the best place to fill grain. Undercoat is only there for colour. Filler primer sounds useful but I don't recall seeing it - is it a specialist thing or have I just not recognised it in the sheds? Dave |
#25
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Dave wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: ... snipped Depends. I use filler primer a LOT on stuff that has to have an immaculate finish. It is often the best place to fill grain. Undercoat is only there for colour. Filler primer sounds useful but I don't recall seeing it - is it a specialist thing or have I just not recognised it in the sheds? Dave halfords. Car body stuff.. But acrylic primer fills well and can be rubbed down too. |
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