Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only is
the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full stretch.
Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I have
to drain the tank before the water stops?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate. Off
to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

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"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
uk...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only is
the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full stretch.
Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I have
to drain the tank before the water stops?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate. Off
to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

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Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Can't you just tie up the float on the cold water tank valve and run the
bath cold tap until the tank is empty?

--
LSR

"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
uk...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Could the tap you're trying be on the rising main and therfore unaffected by
the tank? You might find the loo is on the rising main too, in which case
shutting off the mains is the best way unless you have a local isolating
valve - see below.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only is
the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full stretch.
Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

That sounds like a local isolating valve - are you sure it doesn't shut off
the water? These things sometimes don't fully shut off if you turn them
through the full 90 degrees - have a fiddle.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I have
to drain the tank before the water stops?

Could you tie up the ball valve and drain the tank by opening the taps?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

If it turns out to be faulty, then yes - it'll be relativly easy to replace
it.

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate. Off
to work now, feeling knackered already.

:-)

Dave

"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
uk...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
SNIP
I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate. Off
to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Buy a "Drayton Drain Easy Kit" (about £5, IIRC)this consists of two tapered
rubber bungs. It's designed for CH mtce, but is great for plugging the
outlets of cold tanks, saves draining and does away with the need to touch
'old/stuck/leaky' gate and isolating valves.

Peter

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Peter Ashby wrote:

Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back
down check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling
with it, tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought.
Conclude valve is bust.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only
is the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full
stretch. Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I
have to drain the tank before the water stops?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate.
Off to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

It's not at all clear from your post whether the cistern is fed from the
cold header tank or from the rising main. It's very important to establish
this - otherwise you'll be turning off the wrong thing!

Are you sure that the 1/4 turn service valve doesn't work? That's your best
bet if you can make it work - and it then doesn't matter where the feed
comes from. To get the 'off' position, the screwdriver slot must be exactly
at right-angles to the water flow direction - turn it too far and it'll be
on again!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article , "Peter
Ashby" says...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Stick a carrot in the pipe inside the tank.

Can't you just tie up the float on the cold water tank valve and run the
bath cold tap until the tank is empty?


Damn, I read the OP and hoped that I'd get an early answer in. Here's
expecting a "Doh!" reply sometime soon.

(Unless the bog is fed from the rising main)

Dave wrote:

"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
uk...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Could the tap you're trying be on the rising main and therfore unaffected by
the tank? You might find the loo is on the rising main too, in which case
shutting off the mains is the best way unless you have a local isolating
valve - see below.

That thought did occur except if the pipe emanating from the header tank
supplies something I haven't found it. Turning the gate valve allows
cold water to flow from: cistern, bathroom sink, bath, kitchen sink
(which includes washing machine/outside tap) which leaves no candidates
(boiler is supplied through a different pipe). Add to this that I had
just filled the bucket from the bath tap before ascending to turn the
tap and I could hear the water entering the header tank. So I am pretty
convinced the gate valve is faulty.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only is
the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full stretch.
Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

That sounds like a local isolating valve - are you sure it doesn't shut off
the water? These things sometimes don't fully shut off if you turn them
through the full 90 degrees - have a fiddle.

Unfortunately it is heavily painted and someone has previously fiddled
and the screw is knackered. I am considering taking the opportunity to
replace it with a tap. The thing is the incoming water enters the
cistern from below which is why I suspect it to be a non-return valve,
in which case I should include one. Are combined non-return and tap
units available? I feel confident enough about taking things out and
replacing but I don't have pipe spreaders or any other plumbing
specific tools (wood is more my thing).

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I have
to drain the tank before the water stops?

Could you tie up the ball valve and drain the tank by opening the taps?

I could, being an uninsulated roof in Scotland said tank is heavily
wrapped up and as such I am loathe to interfere unless forced to do so.

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

If it turns out to be faulty, then yes - it'll be relativly easy to replace
it.

I shall endeavour to find one then, thanks.

Peter



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Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Peter Ashby wrote:

Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back
down check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling
with it, tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought.
Conclude valve is bust.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only
is the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full
stretch. Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might
be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a
1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services
come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs
cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to
flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I
have to drain the tank before the water stops?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate
valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly
straightforward to drop a new one in?

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate.
Off to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

It's not at all clear from your post whether the cistern is fed from the
cold header tank or from the rising main. It's very important to establish
this - otherwise you'll be turning off the wrong thing!

As I explained to Dave it supplies the bath tap and doesn't stop that
one. I have also observed in the past that the continuation of that pipe
runs under bath and disappears under the floorboards heading in the
direction of the sink and cistern. Not completely conclusive but it
would be a strange system that supplies mains to the cistern but not the
bath. Doesn't seem high enough pressure. Our house back in NZ had mains
water, I remember that pressure.....

Are you sure that the 1/4 turn service valve doesn't work? That's your best
bet if you can make it work - and it then doesn't matter where the feed
comes from. To get the 'off' position, the screwdriver slot must be exactly
at right-angles to the water flow direction - turn it too far and it'll be
on again!

It was at 90 degrees and water flowed freely, I turned so it aligned and
nothing. Unfortunately the area is heavily painted and the screw slot is
near knackered. Both of which imply to me a replacement might be an idea
while the water is off.

Of course after sending my original post and walking out the front door
the two small access hatches I have walked past every day.... Will
investigate might be easier than clearing the cupboard and crawling
around under the floor.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Rob Morley wrote:

In article , "Peter
Ashby" says...
Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Stick a carrot in the pipe inside the tank.

Wouldn't a parsnip be more robust?

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

(Peter Ashby) wrote in
uk:


Wouldn't a parsnip be more robust?

A carrot's more the right diameter and tapered.

But it could break off.

A set of plugs would be better.

And I'd suggest replacing the isolating valve, *and* any gatevalves,
stopcocks etc you find with fullbore lever ballvalves - far superior

mike

mike ring wrote:

(Peter Ashby) wrote in
uk:


Wouldn't a parsnip be more robust?

A carrot's more the right diameter and tapered.

But it could break off.

A set of plugs would be better.

And I'd suggest replacing the isolating valve, *and* any gatevalves,
stopcocks etc you find with fullbore lever ballvalves - far superior

I think I know what you mean and see your point. I will keep my eyes
open, thanks.

Peter

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Peter Ashby wrote:
Dave wrote:


"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
.ruk...

Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Could the tap you're trying be on the rising main and therfore unaffected by
the tank? You might find the loo is on the rising main too, in which case
shutting off the mains is the best way unless you have a local isolating
valve - see below.


That thought did occur except if the pipe emanating from the header tank
supplies something I haven't found it.

Cold feed to shower?

etillet wrote:

Peter Ashby wrote:
Dave wrote:


"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
.ruk...

Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke
unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this
morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits
directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove
the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn
the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down
check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it,
tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve
is bust.

Could the tap you're trying be on the rising main and therfore unaffected by
the tank? You might find the loo is on the rising main too, in which case
shutting off the mains is the best way unless you have a local isolating
valve - see below.


That thought did occur except if the pipe emanating from the header tank
supplies something I haven't found it.

Cold feed to shower?

Nope shower/bath taps one and the same.

Peter
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Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country