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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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New front door - any advice welcome
Hi
I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy |
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#2
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Whitfield wrote: Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy Have you considered an aluminium door? A powder-coated thermal-break aluminium door looks good, and is strong and secure. Obviously, it's dearer than uPVC - but hopefully not two grand's worth. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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#3
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy The Swedes make highly insulated front doors. Well with getting. |
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#4
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:11:50 +0100, "Andy Whitfield"
wrote: Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy I had a hardwood door with three point locking ( similar to a PVC door ) except the pins retract into a metal box top and bottom which is housed in a mortice, so they are, or were, available. Andy |
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#5
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! A local window installer had, for some years, a uPVC window clamped down to a piece of chipboard. There was a tenner underneath the glass. They challenged anyone to get the tenner without breaking the glass or cutting through the chipboard. No-one managed it during the time I was dealing with them. uPVC is very tough and the multi-locking is very sound. When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. Kev |
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#6
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Uno Hoo! wrote:
When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. You just need to make sure she doesn't get hold of a key then...? (Greets Kev - long time since we saw you in uk.legal, btw) |
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#7
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. There are many wooden doors with multi-point locking available. I think Wickes offer pre-hung ones with 3 point but you can also get more than this from the specialists. |
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#8
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Wooden doors can have multi-point locks. However, the Police recommendation is two BS thief resistant mortise locks, one at 1/3 and one at 2/3 of the door height. All external doors should also be hung on three metal hinges, not less than 100mm long. Colin Bignell |
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#9
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I've never tried it, but I'm told uPVC doors and windows are easy to
get through with the help of a blow lamp. Plastic melts. Of course the burglar may suffer from dioxin poisoning. :-) |
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#10
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Steve Walker wrote: Uno Hoo! wrote: When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. You just need to make sure she doesn't get hold of a key then...? No, it it would need to be key-only from the *inside* for that idea to work!g -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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#11
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"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Andy Whitfield wrote: Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy Have you considered an aluminium door? A powder-coated thermal-break aluminium door looks good, and is strong and secure. Obviously, it's dearer than uPVC - but hopefully not two grand's worth. Cheers, Set Square Are the aluminium doors just an aluminium subframe with uPVC panels or they solid aluminium? I forgot to mention the door must have a wood grain finish to match other doors in the stairwell. Do you know if the aluminium comes with a wood grain finish? Thanks Andy |
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#12
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy The Swedes make highly insulated front doors. Well with getting. Insulation isn't a problem as front door opens on to stairwell. Andy |
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#13
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"Andy Pandy" wrote in message news
 On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:11:50 +0100, "Andy Whitfield" wrote: Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! Regards Andy I had a hardwood door with three point locking ( similar to a PVC door ) except the pins retract into a metal box top and bottom which is housed in a mortice, so they are, or were, available. Andy I haven't seen multipoint locking wooden doors but will do a search for them. My concern with wooden doors is that they are weak around the lock due to the wood has to be cut out to fit the lock. Did your door have a wooden frame (the bit fixed to the wall)? Andy |
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#14
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"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! A local window installer had, for some years, a uPVC window clamped down to a piece of chipboard. There was a tenner underneath the glass. They challenged anyone to get the tenner without breaking the glass or cutting through the chipboard. No-one managed it during the time I was dealing with them. uPVC is very tough and the multi-locking is very sound. I've been to a local firm that make the doors on-site. The uPVC box sections look pretty tough to me but they are plastic welded together. I'm not so sure how tough a plastic weld is? Maybe that's a weak point of uPVC doors? The panels in a uPVC door are rather thin and they look vulnerable to me. The ones I saw are a 5 layer sandwich. Layer of uPVC, then insulation polystyrene, then thin bit of MDF or aluminium, then polystyrene and then uPVC. To counter the weakness of the panels I'm thinking of going for an 8 panels door, so if a panel or two is removed the gap left should be too small for anyone to get through. When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. Kev Surely all front doors are key operated only from outside?? Andy |
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#15
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"Mike" wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. There are many wooden doors with multi-point locking available. I think Wickes offer pre-hung ones with 3 point but you can also get more than this from the specialists. The is a specialist wooden door shop just down the road from me. They've twice told me you can't have multipoint locking on a wooden door! I'll go and have a look at Wickes. What's the door frame (the bit fixed to the wall) made of? wood or something more solid? Andy |
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#16
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wrote in message oups.com...
I've never tried it, but I'm told uPVC doors and windows are easy to get through with the help of a blow lamp. Plastic melts. Of course the burglar may suffer from dioxin poisoning. :-) Good point! The uPVC doors I looked at, had steel inserts in the uPVC sections. Though the steel inserts weren't very big and weren't fixed to the uPVC; they were just slotted in. Andy |
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#17
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"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Wooden doors can have multi-point locks. However, the Police recommendation is two BS thief resistant mortise locks, one at 1/3 and one at 2/3 of the door height. All external doors should also be hung on three metal hinges, not less than 100mm long. Colin Bignell So the police don't recommend multipoint locking wooden doors? (by multipoint, I mean operated from one handle & key) Thanks for the info Andy |
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#18
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In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote: Wooden doors can have multi-point locks. However, the Police recommendation is two BS thief resistant mortise locks, one at 1/3 and one at 2/3 of the door height. All external doors should also be hung on three metal hinges, not less than 100mm long. To me, the idea of having two locks is silly, as they'll rarely both get used. -- *Virtual reality is its own reward* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#19
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"Andy Whitfield" writes:
A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Ironmongery direct sell a 5 point locking system for wooden doors (code AB-YWH418). It says in the catalogue that it is for "single and double rebated doors", but the picture looks like it should fit perfectly well to a non-rebated door. It needs a separate euro-profile cylinder and handle and is GBP99 each. I tried to find it on the website but couldn't, but it is definitely in the paper catalogue. There seems to be a remnant of it online http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/Level_3.asp?Code1=WH&Desc1=Window+Hardware&Code2=E &Desc2=Espagnolettes&Colour=ff6600&FONTCOLOUR=FFFF FF but not the actual product. ISTR a 3-point system in Screwfix but again cannot find it. HTH Peter |
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#20
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:11:50 +0100, "Andy Whitfield"
wrote: A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A good kick with a steel toecap boot will go straight through a uPVC door. A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. 3 point locks *are* available for wooden doors. The door will need a channel routed down the lock side to fit, however. sonix |
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#21
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"s--p--o--n--i--x" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:11:50 +0100, "Andy Whitfield" wrote: A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a good thing) but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is? Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door? A good kick with a steel toecap boot will go straight through a uPVC door. A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. 3 point locks *are* available for wooden doors. The door will need a channel routed down the lock side to fit, however. sonix Do you mean a kick to the uPVC panels or the box sections? The panels look weak-ish to me. But the box sections look quite strong but I was concerned about the plastic weld joints. Are they vulnerable? How big is the channel routed down the door? IE. does it weaken the door? Andy |
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#22
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Whitfield wrote: Are the aluminium doors just an aluminium subframe with uPVC panels or they solid aluminium? They're made out of an aluminium box section - usually with one or more double-glazed glass panels. For an outside door, a good standard of insulation is usually required (even if not in your case). This is usually achieved with a thermal break - where the box section is in two half-boxes joined together with resin. I have also seen aluminium doors with a thin layer of uPVC cladding on the inside. I forgot to mention the door must have a wood grain finish to match other doors in the stairwell. Do you know if the aluminium comes with a wood grain finish? You didn't say anything about wood-grain in the original question - nor did you say whether it was to be partially or wholly glazed. I was assuming - rightly or wrongly - that it was to be glazed. I have never seen a wood-grain aluminium door. The usual finish is powder coating in either white or brown - which is very smart, but looks nothing like wood grain. In my view, wood-grain effect uPVC is not very convincing - the best way of achieving wood grain being to make it out of *wood*! -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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#23
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"Peter Riocreux" wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" writes: A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Ironmongery direct sell a 5 point locking system for wooden doors (code AB-YWH418). It says in the catalogue that it is for "single and double rebated doors", but the picture looks like it should fit perfectly well to a non-rebated door. It needs a separate euro-profile cylinder and handle and is GBP99 each. I tried to find it on the website but couldn't, but it is definitely in the paper catalogue. There seems to be a remnant of it online http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/L...ur=ff6600&FONT COLOUR=FFFFFF but not the actual product. ISTR a 3-point system in Screwfix but again cannot find it. HTH Peter Umm not sure what's meant by rebated door? Can you explain? My concern with wooden doors and frames is that the wood is weak around the lock due to the amount of wood removed to fit the lock. Would you agree? The Ironmongery website is due to be re-launched in June, so I'll keep an eye on it. Andy |
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#24
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Whitfield wrote: Surely all front doors are key operated only from outside?? Andy Not necessarily. I have a porch door with an outside handle - so we can get under cover in a hurry when it's raining. There's another lockable door between the porch and the house. We only lock the porch at night or when staying away from home. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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#25
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"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... Uno Hoo! wrote: When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. You just need to make sure she doesn't get hold of a key then...? (Greets Kev - long time since we saw you in uk.legal, btw) Hi Steve - yes, I don't know why particularly. I'll perhaps have to take another look. Kev |
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#26
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... "Uno Hoo!" wrote in message ... When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. Kev Surely all front doors are key operated only from outside?? Nope - it's up to you to specify how you want it to operate. My porch door can be opened from the outside with the handle when the door is unlocked although the actual house door cannot of course. I have two sets of friends, however, who had new UPVC front doors and were never asked how they wanted them configured. As a result, unless the physically lock the door from the inside, anyone can just turn the outside handle and walk in ! Kev |
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#27
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"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Andy Whitfield wrote: Are the aluminium doors just an aluminium subframe with uPVC panels or they solid aluminium? They're made out of an aluminium box section - usually with one or more double-glazed glass panels. For an outside door, a good standard of insulation is usually required (even if not in your case). This is usually achieved with a thermal break - where the box section is in two half-boxes joined together with resin. I have also seen aluminium doors with a thin layer of uPVC cladding on the inside. Sorry, didn't mention no window in door. What else are the panels made of? aluminium sheet? I forgot to mention the door must have a wood grain finish to match other doors in the stairwell. Do you know if the aluminium comes with a wood grain finish? You didn't say anything about wood-grain in the original question - nor did you say whether it was to be partially or wholly glazed. I was assuming - rightly or wrongly - that it was to be glazed. I have never seen a wood-grain aluminium door. The usual finish is powder coating in either white or brown - which is very smart, but looks nothing like wood grain. In my view, wood-grain effect uPVC is not very convincing - the best way of achieving wood grain being to make it out of *wood*! Cheers, Set Square Because it's in a block of flats I have to a door of similar appearance to the other original front doors. Doesn't matter if uPVC wood grain finishing not very convincing; just has to blend in. My concern about wooden doors and frames, is they are weak around the lock because of the wood removed to fit the lock. I am assuming here wooden doors are hung in to wooden frames but maybe I can have a steel frame? Andy |
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#28
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wrote in message oups.com... I've never tried it, but I'm told uPVC doors and windows are easy to get through with the help of a blow lamp. Plastic melts. Of course the burglar may suffer from dioxin poisoning. :-) Clearly, any house is only as secure as its glass. A brick through a window and you're in (unless you have bars across every window of course). Wooden doors can be attacked with an axe - or a simple ram like the police use to gain entrance to properties. Steel doors in a steel frame are probably the toughest option available but, as has been pointed out - very expensive and not very pretty! Kev |
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#29
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"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message ...
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... "Uno Hoo!" wrote in message ... When I had a uPVC front door installed at my Mother in law's just over a year ago I specified that it should only be openable from the outside with the key, even if the door was 'unlocked'. I'm quite satisfied that the door is very secure. Kev Surely all front doors are key operated only from outside?? Nope - it's up to you to specify how you want it to operate. My porch door can be opened from the outside with the handle when the door is unlocked although the actual house door cannot of course. I have two sets of friends, however, who had new UPVC front doors and were never asked how they wanted them configured. As a result, unless the physically lock the door from the inside, anyone can just turn the outside handle and walk in ! Kev I'll definitely add that to be list of requirements! Thanks Andy |
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#30
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"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message ...
wrote in message oups.com... I've never tried it, but I'm told uPVC doors and windows are easy to get through with the help of a blow lamp. Plastic melts. Of course the burglar may suffer from dioxin poisoning. :-) Clearly, any house is only as secure as its glass. A brick through a window and you're in (unless you have bars across every window of course). Wooden doors can be attacked with an axe - or a simple ram like the police use to gain entrance to properties. Steel doors in a steel frame are probably the toughest option available but, as has been pointed out - very expensive and not very pretty! Kev I live on the top floor, so any burglar would need a 3 story ladder to reach my windows plus overlooked front and back by neighbours. Though whether neighbours would pay any attention to someone climbing in and out of my windows is another matter! Andy |
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#31
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#32
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Whitfield wrote: My concern about wooden doors and frames, is they are weak around the lock because of the wood removed to fit the lock. You've said that several times - but I don't think it's particularly true. A 1/2" slot for a mortice lock inside a 1 3/4" hardwood door still leaves plenty of meat either side. I am assuming here wooden doors are hung in to wooden frames but maybe I can have a steel frame? Andy Possibly - but are you trying to create Fort Knox? Obviously you want to take reasonable steps to make it secure - but at the end of the day, if any self-respecting villain is sufficiently determined to get it, he will do so whatever sort of door you've got! -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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#33
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"Rob Morley" wrote in message t...
In article , "Andy Whitfield" says... Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much. I expect you could get one for rather less than that if you find a friendly steel fabricator who likes a challenge. Probably could but then it's not just the door, got to have the frame made as well, plus a 3 point lock has to be bought and installed in the door and then the is the cost of labour to fit everything. As I've been typing these emails, it struck me the is a business opportunity for someone to manufacture steel doors at a lower price. Once built one door and frame, etc then easier to do more. Don't think it's rocket science! ;-) Andy |
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#34
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote: Wooden doors can have multi-point locks. However, the Police recommendation is two BS thief resistant mortise locks, one at 1/3 and one at 2/3 of the door height. All external doors should also be hung on three metal hinges, not less than 100mm long. To me, the idea of having two locks is silly, as they'll rarely both get used. To me, it is automatic to use both, although I do have a common key system, so it only needs one key. Colin Bignell |
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#35
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Andy Whitfield wrote:
Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted ?2000+ which is too much. snip A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking system. And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Any comments or advice very much appreciated! You could always take the half-way-house between steel and wood - ironwood  |
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#36
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"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message ... "nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... .... Wooden doors can have multi-point locks. However, the Police recommendation is two BS thief resistant mortise locks, one at 1/3 and one at 2/3 of the door height. All external doors should also be hung on three metal hinges, not less than 100mm long. Colin Bignell So the police don't recommend multipoint locking wooden doors? (by multipoint, I mean operated from one handle & key) BS 3621 thief-resistant locks will have protection against drilling, bolts that are resistant to hacksaws and will be resistant to being picked. While there may be multi-point locks that offer equivalent protection, there is no provision in BS 3621 for them, so there is no easy way to tell which they are. That is why the Police do not recommend them. However, your insurers may accept a multi-point lock as being a suitable alternative to a BS 3621 lock. Colin Bignell |
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#37
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"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Andy Whitfield wrote: My concern about wooden doors and frames, is they are weak around the lock because of the wood removed to fit the lock. You've said that several times - but I don't think it's particularly true. A 1/2" slot for a mortice lock inside a 1 3/4" hardwood door still leaves plenty of meat either side. Sorry I've repeated myself but I assume most 'posters' are more likely to read replies to their posts rather than all the other replies. Would also need similar frame width for the lock keep. I don't know if it would be possible to fit a door frame with 1 3/4" wood. I am assuming here wooden doors are hung in to wooden frames but maybe I can have a steel frame? Andy Possibly - but are you trying to create Fort Knox? Obviously you want to take reasonable steps to make it secure - but at the end of the day, if any self-respecting villain is sufficiently determined to get it, he will do so whatever sort of door you've got! Cheers, Set Square Lol, not Fort Knox. I like to know my options and how secure each one is and, of course, cost. My main reservation about uPVC was the strength of the plastic (particularly the panels) and the strength of the plastic welds. As you can see there are differing opinions on the strength of uPVC. Andy |
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Derek Geldard wrote:
And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Mortise locks are generally more secure but a good one with hardened steel plates to resist drilling requires more wood to be removed, similarly the re-inforced box staple (that the bolt shoots into) needs a lot of wood to be removed from the frame. However it's not particularly difficult or expensive to put a bit of steel reinforcement in, especially adjacent to the box staple, or even a sheet of steel over the whole door. Owain |
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#39
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"Owain" wrote in message ... Derek Geldard wrote: And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force. Mortise locks are generally more secure but a good one with hardened steel plates to resist drilling requires more wood to be removed, similarly the re-inforced box staple (that the bolt shoots into) needs a lot of wood to be removed from the frame. Most box staples can be secured directly to the masonary behind if you are installing a new frame as I think the OP was However it's not particularly difficult or expensive to put a bit of steel reinforcement in, especially adjacent to the box staple, or even a sheet of steel over the whole door. That's not so pretty though :-) |
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#40
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Hi Andy,
Andy Whitfield wrote: Hi I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget. [snip] Any comments or advice very much appreciated! We replaced our wooden front door a few years ago (it was warped) and chose to replace it with another wooden door. Close friends replaced their door a few years prior to this and chose a uPVC door - it looks pretty chunky but looks are deceptive. The problem with the friends door is that the frame was uPVC too (or so it seems) - resulting in a terrible job. That's what caused us to stick to wood for our replacement. Regarding security, I'd advocate a mortice lock in the middle, a hand operated turn-buckle bolt at the base (without key) AND a nightlatch fitted higher than the mortise. The nightlatch's keeper fits into an electric strike release. Keypad outside the door too. Thus: at night you can have the mortice AND the nightlatch AND the deadbolt securing the door. When you leave the house empty during the day the nightlatch and the mortice are used. When you are in the house the nightlatch keeps any old punter out but lets in people that know the keypad number. If you provide any kids with a door key there is less worry if they lose it because anyone finding the key and knowing which door it is for still has to get around the keypad mortice. I bought a twenty-quid door closer from Screwfix to ensure that the door is closed automatically after use. Next idea (when I get time) is to employ the services of another solenoid which will be energised via a simple timer circuit to keep the door open for (say) five minutes. Enough time to unload the shopping without wedging the door open permanently then forgetting about it. The other idea regarding the "Door Sentinel" is in final stages on my electronic breadboard... :-) HTH Mungo |
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