Got a bit of a problem with a leaking soil pipe and would appreciate
some advice...

I have a boxed-in, steel (not cast iron) soil pipe, which feeds into
what I assume to be the top of a clay drain pipe at ground level (ie,
inside the house). Sort of like this...


steel soil pipe
| |
| |
| | | |
-----|__|_ _|__|------------ground level
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | clay drain


The gap/interface between the steel and clay pipes had been plugged and
sealed with mortar, but this had cracked (radially), and there's been
quite a bit of slow leakage within the boxing over time (fair bit of wet
rot).

I've tried to gently chip out the mortar 'interface' in order to reseal
it with new mortar, but not unsurprisingly have managed to bust the clay
pipe. That is itself embedded in concrete - see
http://tinyurl.com/ap2fg for a photo of the current situation! (there's
also a new crack now, just visible at the 3 o'clock position).

At this point I really don't know what the hell to do. Digging out the
broken clay pipe - which is embedded in the solid floor and then
presumably turns to pass through the foundations - looks a non starter,
and the only thing I can think of is just to lather the whole broken
joint in oodles of wet mortar and hope for the best. Is that likely to
work, though? It would make matters a lot worse if it doesn't! If
that's the only way, any top tips to ensure a waterproof seal?

--
Thanks
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Got a bit of a problem with a leaking soil pipe and would appreciate
some advice...

I have a boxed-in, steel (not cast iron) soil pipe, which feeds into
what I assume to be the top of a clay drain pipe at ground level (ie,
inside the house). Sort of like this...


steel soil pipe
| |
| |
| | | |
-----|__|_ _|__|------------ground level
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | clay drain


The gap/interface between the steel and clay pipes had been plugged and
sealed with mortar, but this had cracked (radially), and there's been
quite a bit of slow leakage within the boxing over time (fair bit of wet
rot).

I've tried to gently chip out the mortar 'interface' in order to reseal
it with new mortar, but not unsurprisingly have managed to bust the clay
pipe. That is itself embedded in concrete - see
http://tinyurl.com/ap2fg for a photo of the current situation! (there's
also a new crack now, just visible at the 3 o'clock position).

At this point I really don't know what the hell to do. Digging out the
broken clay pipe

Is the pipe broken below floor level ? If not try to cut it off with and
angle grinder to restore a clean edge and then go off to your local
specialist plumbing merchants and they will sell you a 'precision fit' (i.e.
hammer job) fixing which slides inside and provides a new fresh standard
ring connector on the other end. Of course this will be for PVC pipe so
you'll then need to convert this to the steel pipe which hopefully they can
also provide.

In article , Mike
writes

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

At this point I really don't know what the hell to do. Digging out the
broken clay pipe

Is the pipe broken below floor level ? If not try to cut it off with and
angle grinder to restore a clean edge and then go off to your local
specialist plumbing merchants and they will sell you a 'precision fit' (i.e.
hammer job) fixing which slides inside and provides a new fresh standard
ring connector on the other end. Of course this will be for PVC pipe so
you'll then need to convert this to the steel pipe which hopefully they can
also provide.

Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)
but sized for your steel pipe, sure your merchant will find something if you
go armed with the right measurements. Mentioning you want something
like a WC pan adaptor but different might save on the explanations.

--
fred

fred wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

At this point I really don't know what the hell to do. Digging out the
broken clay pipe

Is the pipe broken below floor level ? If not try to cut it off with and
angle grinder to restore a clean edge and then go off to your local
specialist plumbing merchants and they will sell you a 'precision fit' (i.e.
hammer job) fixing which slides inside and provides a new fresh standard
ring connector on the other end. Of course this will be for PVC pipe so
you'll then need to convert this to the steel pipe which hopefully they can
also provide.

Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)
but sized for your steel pipe, sure your merchant will find something if you
go armed with the right measurements. Mentioning you want something
like a WC pan adaptor but different might save on the explanations.

Ah, right - I've used these before in a horizontal situation but for
some reason it hadn't occurred to me they'd work vertically too! Having
said that, I'm not entirely sure what interface I have with the clay
pipe... if you look at my photo, the steel pipe is sitting on a
horizontal, flat section of the clay pipe, and *that* is level with the
floor - ie, presumably the internal bore of the clay pipe must be less
than the external diameter of the steel pipe. Or is there likely to be
some form of internal rim on the clay pipe, which the steel pipe's
sitting on? Can't really see what's going on, and I'm not familiar with
the geometry of the 'socket' on a clay pipe. Don't want to cut it all
off flush with the floor unless it will definitely work, obviously!

--
Thanks
David

Lobster wrote:
The gap/interface between the steel and clay pipes had been plugged and
sealed with mortar, but this had cracked (radially), and there's been
quite a bit of slow leakage within the boxing over time (fair bit of wet
rot).

I've tried to gently chip out the mortar 'interface' in order to reseal
it with new mortar, but not unsurprisingly have managed to bust the clay
pipe. That is itself embedded in concrete - see
http://tinyurl.com/ap2fg for a photo of the current situation! (there's
also a new crack now, just visible at the 3 o'clock position).

It's difficult to get cement out of the socket, as you've found. The
bedt way is very gently with a gentle hammer drill and a small bit,
making lots and lots of holes, and drilling at an angle. However.

At this point I really don't know what the hell to do. Digging out the
broken clay pipe - which is embedded in the solid floor and then
presumably turns to pass through the foundations - looks a non starter,
and the only thing I can think of is just to lather the whole broken
joint in oodles of wet mortar and hope for the best. Is that likely to
work, though? It would make matters a lot worse if it doesn't! If
that's the only way, any top tips to ensure a waterproof seal?

You need to get the metal pipe out of the way, & push in an adaptor
which you can get from a BM or PM. It's a plastic version of the
clay one, with rubber fins which seal between the clay & plastic.
Break off the rest of the socket as cleanly as you can, then push
the adaptor in. Re-position the metal pipe. Fill the socket with
cement as normal.

In article , Lobster davidlobs
writes
fred wrote:

Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)
but sized for your steel pipe, sure your merchant will find something if you
go armed with the right measurements. Mentioning you want something
like a WC pan adaptor but different might save on the explanations.

Ah, right - I've used these before in a horizontal situation but for
some reason it hadn't occurred to me they'd work vertically too! Having
said that, I'm not entirely sure what interface I have with the clay
pipe... if you look at my photo, the steel pipe is sitting on a
horizontal, flat section of the clay pipe, and *that* is level with the
floor - ie, presumably the internal bore of the clay pipe must be less
than the external diameter of the steel pipe. Or is there likely to be
some form of internal rim on the clay pipe, which the steel pipe's
sitting on? Can't really see what's going on, and I'm not familiar with
the geometry of the 'socket' on a clay pipe. Don't want to cut it all
off flush with the floor unless it will definitely work, obviously!

I think the steel pipe will just be sitting there, no socket other than the part
that has broken and just the mortar will have been holding it in place. Now
that it is broken I don't think you can rely on it sealing properly again so a
rubber sealed adaptor socket is the way to go. I think your confidence will
be raised if you go to your PM to have a chat and see what they have.
Locally I have a drainage specialist who doesn't stock regular plumbing
stuff at all and it is there that I would go if I was in your spot, perhaps you
have a similar outfit in your area. Ideal would be to remove the steel pipe to
check socket & pipe dims but I can understand you not wanting to do that
until you get the necessary bits. Get the to the PM :-)

Btw, the fact that it has leaked at all (if the socket wasn't broken before)
suggest that the soil pipe may be backing up a bit, just thought I'd mention
it.
--
fred

fred wrote:
In article , Lobster davidlobs
writes

fred wrote:

I think the steel pipe will just be sitting there, no socket other than the part
that has broken and just the mortar will have been holding it in place. Now
that it is broken I don't think you can rely on it sealing properly again so a
rubber sealed adaptor socket is the way to go. I think your confidence will
be raised if you go to your PM to have a chat and see what they have.
Locally I have a drainage specialist who doesn't stock regular plumbing
stuff at all and it is there that I would go if I was in your spot, perhaps you
have a similar outfit in your area. Ideal would be to remove the steel pipe to
check socket & pipe dims but I can understand you not wanting to do that
until you get the necessary bits. Get the to the PM :-)

Thanks Fred - yes I'm sure you're right about the mortar being the only
seal. I didn't mention it before, but in fact if you look at the photo
(http://tinyurl.com/ap2fg), at the very back of the area now exposed by
the lump having broken away, there is a cavity beneath the mortar seal,
which AFAICS goes right round the pipe. There was the rotting remnants
of some sort of fibrous material inside there, which I suspect may have
been some form of spacer or washer? Make any sense? Also, if you look
at the base of the lump which has broken away (now positioned upside
down) you can just see annular grooves, with a corresponding pattern on
the opposing face in the pipe. I'm wondering whether this lump has not
broken off the pipe per se, but off a separate annular component? Might
make a difference as to whether the Kwickfit adapter will work?

Anyway - having reinspected the 'project' this morning, I find that
there is certainly no easy way to raise or move the steel pipe; it goes
upwards through the ceiling (mating with the loo upstairs) and then
continues straight up through the roof to a vent cowl. It's all very
rigidly fixed and sealed in place and would be a nightmare to shift it.
So I'm thinking, cut through the pipe about 1m above the floor so I
can move out the bottom section. How would I successfully rejoin the
cut ends - another Kwickfit adapter, assuming there's a suitable one
available?

Oh, deep joy...

--
David








Btw, the fact that it has leaked at all (if the socket wasn't broken before)
suggest that the soil pipe may be backing up a bit, just thought I'd mention
it.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fred wrote:


Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)

Maybe the way to go is to use a 12716 pushed into the socket, and to shorten
the steel pipe so that it just buts up to it. You can then use a
http://tinyurl.com/a5lww to join the steel pipe to the top of the 12716.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fred wrote:


Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)

Maybe the way to go is to use a 12716 pushed into the socket, and to shorten
the steel pipe so that it just buts up to it. You can then use a
http://tinyurl.com/a5lww to join the steel pipe to the top of the 12716.

Yep thought that might be the way to go and as were already placing an
order to BES we can use theirs http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/132.asp ,
about half way down.

Right dave get on with it then ;-)
--
fred

In article , Lobster
writes

Oh, deep joy...
I think we've got it sussed, have a look at my reply to Set Square, now get
your rubber gloves on ;-)
--
fred

fred wrote:
In article , Set Square
writes

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fred wrote:


Sorta like 12710/12716 he
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp (near the bottom)

Maybe the way to go is to use a 12716 pushed into the socket, and to shorten
the steel pipe so that it just buts up to it. You can then use a
http://tinyurl.com/a5lww to join the steel pipe to the top of the 12716.


Yep thought that might be the way to go and as were already placing an
order to BES we can use theirs http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/132.asp ,
about half way down.

Right dave get on with it then ;-)

Thanks again! Yes I suppose I'd better, hadn't I! I won't be able do
so now until early next week (don't worry, soil pipe is now out of
service!) so stand by for panicked cries for help after I've cut the
pipe and it turns out that all assumptions made were wrong.... ;-)

--
David

In article , "Lobster"
says...
snip
Anyway - having reinspected the 'project' this morning, I find that
there is certainly no easy way to raise or move the steel pipe; it goes
upwards through the ceiling (mating with the loo upstairs) and then
continues straight up through the roof to a vent cowl. It's all very
rigidly fixed and sealed in place and would be a nightmare to shift it.
So I'm thinking, cut through the pipe about 1m above the floor so I
can move out the bottom section. How would I successfully rejoin the
cut ends - another Kwickfit adapter, assuming there's a suitable one
available?

I'd remove the remaining mortar and cut the pipe down flush, clean
everything very throughly, apply a large fillet of silicone sealant
then build up a ring of mortar so it looks like it did in the first
place.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Lobster"
says...
snip
Anyway - having reinspected the 'project' this morning, I find that
there is certainly no easy way to raise or move the steel pipe; it goes
upwards through the ceiling (mating with the loo upstairs) and then
continues straight up through the roof to a vent cowl. It's all very
rigidly fixed and sealed in place and would be a nightmare to shift it.
So I'm thinking, cut through the pipe about 1m above the floor so I
can move out the bottom section. How would I successfully rejoin the
cut ends - another Kwickfit adapter, assuming there's a suitable one
available?

I'd remove the remaining mortar and cut the pipe down flush, clean
everything very throughly, apply a large fillet of silicone sealant
then build up a ring of mortar so it looks like it did in the first
place.

I am sure once when I fiddled around with a cemented soil pipe joint, the
cast iron pipe (in my case) went into the vitreous pipe and the bottom of
the joint was filled with something like "rope soaked in plumbers mait",
with cement ontop. In my case the iron pipe was replaced with plastic and a
rubber seal into the vitreous pipe.

Rob Morley wrote;

I'd remove the remaining mortar and cut the pipe down flush, clean
everything very throughly, apply a large fillet of silicone sealant
then build up a ring of mortar so it looks like it did in the first
place.

My thoughts exactly. I had a similar leak on a cast iron soil pipe. Just
built a box around it as formwork & filled it with fine concrete. That was
10 years ago and it's still K.

Dave