Hi My house has warm air central heating using gas and my gas bill is about
£350 a year. I also use gas for cooking and hot water and have a power
shower connected to the hot water tank. Has anyone ever done a comparison on
costs, or replaced their warm air central heating with radiators and is
there, as I have been told, a significant cost saving of gas, if replacing
the warm central heating with radiators?

If I got a new heating system etc would I still be able to use my power
shower or will that have to be changed also?

The heating was installed when the house was built in 1991 and I have lived
in it since new. I ask because I just had it serviced by Scottish Gas and
the engineer said it is getting near the end of it's life and did I want
Scottish Gas to give me a quote for a replacement system using radiators. If
I did decide to replace it, it would not be with Scottish Gas.

Thinking about the cost of a service contract anyway I have paid Scottish
Gas about £100 a year since 1993 and if I had radiators, if something went
wrong with the plumbing I could easilly get that fixed (relative a plumber)
and just pay an engineer if there was something wrong with the gas so would
not need a service contract, another saving.

I live in Scotland if it is relevant

Thanks for any info Tricia

In article , Ronald
wrote:

Hi My house has warm air central heating using gas and my gas bill is about
£350 a year. I also use gas for cooking and hot water and have a power
shower connected to the hot water tank. Has anyone ever done a comparison on
costs, or replaced their warm air central heating with radiators and is
there, as I have been told, a significant cost saving of gas, if replacing
the warm central heating with radiators?

You're unlikely so save much on your gas bills. Stick with the system
you have so long as it works and you're happy with it. Even if you could
reduce your gas bills to zero it could take about 10 years to recover
the cost of installing a new system.

If I got a new heating system etc would I still be able to use my power
shower or will that have to be changed also?

No reason why not, providing the correct type of system is installed.

The heating was installed when the house was built in 1991 and I have lived
in it since new. I ask because I just had it serviced by Scottish Gas and
the engineer said it is getting near the end of it's life and did I want
Scottish Gas to give me a quote for a replacement system using radiators.

Sounds like marketing bulls**t. Our warm air system lasted 35 years
before having to be replaced due to the flue disintegrating. We were
quite happy with it while it lasted but eventually had to replace it
with a new system because the old flue followed a torturous route
through the house which would have failed to satisfy current safety regs
if re-used by a new flue. Re-routing bulky warm air ducting to
accommodate a relocated replacement warm air unit would have been
impracticable so we went for a radiator system.

If I did decide to replace it, it would not be with Scottish Gas.

If they're anything like British Gas that's probably a wise choice.

Thinking about the cost of a service contract anyway I have paid Scottish
Gas about £100 a year since 1993 and if I had radiators, if something went
wrong with the plumbing I could easilly get that fixed (relative a plumber)
and just pay an engineer if there was something wrong with the gas so would
not need a service contract, another saving.

Well with warm air there's very little that can go wrong with the
ducting (which is probably not covered in the contract anyway) so the
only potentially expensive repairs would be to the warm air unit. So the
situation isn't much different.

I paid BG similar amounts for a maintenance contract for many years only
to be told "Sorry mate, we only cover the 'primary flue' - that bit of
the flue isn't covered".

With hindsight I'd have been much better off without the maintenance
contract.
--
Mike Clarke

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
...
In article , Ronald
wrote:

Hi My house has warm air central heating using gas and my gas bill is
about
£350 a year. I also use gas for cooking and hot water and have a power
shower connected to the hot water tank. Has anyone ever done a comparison
on
costs, or replaced their warm air central heating with radiators and is
there, as I have been told, a significant cost saving of gas, if
replacing
the warm central heating with radiators?

You're unlikely so save much on your gas bills. Stick with the system
you have so long as it works and you're happy with it. Even if you could
reduce your gas bills to zero it could take about 10 years to recover
the cost of installing a new system.

If I got a new heating system etc would I still be able to use my power
shower or will that have to be changed also?

No reason why not, providing the correct type of system is installed.

The heating was installed when the house was built in 1991 and I have
lived
in it since new. I ask because I just had it serviced by Scottish Gas and
the engineer said it is getting near the end of it's life and did I want
Scottish Gas to give me a quote for a replacement system using radiators.

Sounds like marketing bulls**t. Our warm air system lasted 35 years
before having to be replaced due to the flue disintegrating. We were
quite happy with it while it lasted but eventually had to replace it
with a new system because the old flue followed a torturous route
through the house which would have failed to satisfy current safety regs
if re-used by a new flue. Re-routing bulky warm air ducting to
accommodate a relocated replacement warm air unit would have been
impracticable so we went for a radiator system.

If I did decide to replace it, it would not be with Scottish Gas.

If they're anything like British Gas that's probably a wise choice.

Thinking about the cost of a service contract anyway I have paid Scottish
Gas about £100 a year since 1993 and if I had radiators, if something
went
wrong with the plumbing I could easilly get that fixed (relative a
plumber)
and just pay an engineer if there was something wrong with the gas so
would
not need a service contract, another saving.

Well with warm air there's very little that can go wrong with the
ducting (which is probably not covered in the contract anyway) so the
only potentially expensive repairs would be to the warm air unit. So the
situation isn't much different.

I paid BG similar amounts for a maintenance contract for many years only
to be told "Sorry mate, we only cover the 'primary flue' - that bit of
the flue isn't covered".

With hindsight I'd have been much better off without the maintenance
contract.

Many warm air units have long flexible fan flues, that take air from outside
only, not from inside the house. They can also have electrostatic air
filters on them - well worth getting. Also you can have a ventilation aspect
incorporated, although maybe with some ducting changes in the loft or
wherever. They also circulate air in summer to keep the place cool.
Humidification can be incorporated as well. Keep the warm air ducting and
no rads on walls. New registers can be fitted if you want nice shiny chrome
versions. Do your research if replacing as the likes of Scottish gas will
only replace the nearest type for type and will not install one say with a
more flexible room sealed flue. They don't have that much experience of
system design at all, just maintenetance and replacing type of type. See
Johnson & Starley.




_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"....said it is getting near the end of it's life"

If so, then the only part that would need relacing would be the
heater/fan unit. There'd be no point in ripping out the ducts. I think
Johnson & Starley are the only UK manufacturers of direct gas fired &
probably made your unit. Ring them, get numbers for a few local
installers and get costs for replacement and service for your model. I
think they may say it has lots of life left in it. Dump the Gas
contract if you find a reliable or cheaper alternative service
contractor.

Another option would be to fit a gas boiler with a water/air heater
battery in an air handler/fan. Fairly simple but probably beyond the
ability of most heating contractors.

Mike Clarke wrote:
If I did decide to replace it, it would not be with Scottish Gas.
If they're anything like British Gas that's probably a wise choice.

Scottish Gas *are* British Gas. They even re-use British Gas posters
with an extra bit in not-quite-matching blue to change the British into
Scottish.

I wonder why they don't call themselves English Gas down south...

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Mike Clarke wrote:
If I did decide to replace it, it would not be with Scottish Gas.
If they're anything like British Gas that's probably a wise choice.

Scottish Gas *are* British Gas. They even re-use British Gas posters
with an extra bit in not-quite-matching blue to change the British into
Scottish.

I wonder why they don't call themselves English Gas down south...

The English are so sensitive to identity. I know one Scot whop gets ****ed
off because the M6 says Carlisle North, Not Scotland North. He say the
English are sneering Scotland.






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Aidan" wrote in message
oups.com...
"....said it is getting near the end of it's life"

If so, then the only part that would need relacing would be the
heater/fan unit. There'd be no point in ripping out the ducts. I think
Johnson & Starley are the only UK manufacturers of direct gas fired &
probably made your unit. Ring them, get numbers for a few local
installers and get costs for replacement and service for your model. I
think they may say it has lots of life left in it. Dump the Gas
contract if you find a reliable or cheaper alternative service
contractor.

Another option would be to fit a gas boiler with a water/air heater
battery in an air handler/fan. Fairly simple but probably beyond the
ability of most heating contractors.

I prefer this as the boiler can be used to heat the DHW. A high flow combi
would do, so no space taken by a cylinder. Designed from the outset, the
air handling unit , and boiler, could be in the loft.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Aidan" wrote in message
oups.com...
"....said it is getting near the end of it's life"

If so, then the only part that would need relacing would be the
heater/fan unit. There'd be no point in ripping out the ducts. I think
Johnson & Starley are the only UK manufacturers of direct gas fired &
probably made your unit. Ring them, get numbers for a few local
installers and get costs for replacement and service for your model. I
think they may say it has lots of life left in it. Dump the Gas
contract if you find a reliable or cheaper alternative service
contractor.

Another option would be to fit a gas boiler with a water/air heater
battery in an air handler/fan. Fairly simple but probably beyond the
ability of most heating contractors.

I prefer this as the boiler can be used to heat the DHW. A high flow
combi
would do, so no space taken by a cylinder. Designed from the outset, the
air handling unit , and boiler, could be in the loft.

Also, I have never come across a cheap air handling unit with a copper coil
heater battery and fan inside. There is little in them but they cost the
earth bacuse they are commercial. I know someone who made his own super
cheaply out of marine ply, coated in varnish on all sides. He bought a fan
and copper heater battery, cut it all out and put it together with screws
and silicon. An access piece on hinges, for cleaning. Worked wonderfully.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:
The English are so sensitive to identity. I know one Scot whop gets ****ed
off because the M6 says Carlisle North, Not Scotland North.

I thought whops began at Calais, not Carlisle? :-)

Owain

I know someone who made his own super cheaply out of marine ply....

Me, too.

Wonder if it's the same bloke. Nah.

In message , Ronald
writes
Hi My house has warm air central heating using gas and my gas bill is about
£350 a year. I also use gas for cooking and hot water and have a power
shower connected to the hot water tank. Has anyone ever done a comparison on
costs, or replaced their warm air central heating with radiators and is
there, as I have been told, a significant cost saving of gas, if replacing
the warm central heating with radiators?

We did just that about 5 years ago, replacing a J & S warm air unit with
a Combi-boiler. It was a DIY job, which cost £1000 all in. Our gas bill
dropped by around £90 per year, so we're still some way off it paying
for itself :-)

If I got a new heating system etc would I still be able to use my power
shower or will that have to be changed also?

We've a mixer shower direct off the combi, AFAIK you can't run a power
shower off a combi.

The heating was installed when the house was built in 1991 and I have lived
in it since new. I ask because I just had it serviced by Scottish Gas and
the engineer said it is getting near the end of it's life and did I want
Scottish Gas to give me a quote for a replacement system using radiators.

Our GWA unit was 22 years old & still going strong, but SWMBO wanted
radiators, so radiators we got.

Thinking about the cost of a service contract anyway I have paid Scottish
Gas about £100 a year since 1993 and if I had radiators, if something went
wrong with the plumbing I could easilly get that fixed (relative a plumber)
and just pay an engineer if there was something wrong with the gas so would
not need a service contract, another saving.

The biggest benefit for us was the space reclaimed by ripping out the
cupboards containing the unit (in kitchen) and the DHW tank (first floor
bedroom). Two square metres doesn't sound much, but both rooms became
square and feel a lot bigger, and the boiler's now in a utility room,
out of the way. Plus the positioning of furniture's more flexible, with
no vents to keep clear of.

I live in Scotland if it is relevant

Snap, Glenrothes.

cheers
--
Keith

"Aidan" wrote in message
oups.com...

I know someone who made his own
super cheaply out of marine ply....

Me, too.

Wonder if it's the same bloke. Nah.

No. I only associate with intelligent people.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Jeanette" wrote in message
...
In message , Ronald
writes
Hi My house has warm air central heating using gas and my gas bill is
about
£350 a year. I also use gas for cooking and hot water and have a power
shower connected to the hot water tank. Has anyone ever done a comparison
on
costs, or replaced their warm air central heating with radiators and is
there, as I have been told, a significant cost saving of gas, if
replacing
the warm central heating with radiators?

We did just that about 5 years ago, replacing a J & S warm air unit with
a Combi-boiler. It was a DIY job, which cost £1000 all in. Our gas bill
dropped by around £90 per year, so we're still some way off it paying
for itself :-)

If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have dropped by
around £100 per ann.

If I got a new heating system etc would I still be able to use my power
shower or will that have to be changed also?

We've a mixer shower direct off the combi, AFAIK you can't run a power
shower off a combi.

The heating was installed when the house was built in 1991 and I have
lived
in it since new. I ask because I just had it serviced by Scottish Gas and
the engineer said it is getting near the end of it's life and did I want
Scottish Gas to give me a quote for a replacement system using radiators.

Our GWA unit was 22 years old & still going strong, but SWMBO wanted
radiators, so radiators we got.

Did you write that properly? She wanted "radiators" when none were there?

Thinking about the cost of a service contract anyway I have paid Scottish
Gas about £100 a year since 1993 and if I had radiators, if something
went
wrong with the plumbing I could easilly get that fixed (relative a
plumber)
and just pay an engineer if there was something wrong with the gas so
would
not need a service contract, another saving.

The biggest benefit for us was the space reclaimed by ripping out the
cupboards containing the unit (in kitchen) and the DHW tank (first floor
bedroom). Two square metres doesn't sound much, but both rooms became
square and feel a lot bigger, and the boiler's now in a utility room,
out of the way. Plus the positioning of furniture's more flexible, with
no vents to keep clear of.

Should have put the warm air unit in the loft, where all equipment should
go.




_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

Our gas bill
dropped by around £90 per year, so we're still some way off it paying
for itself :-)

If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have dropped by
around £100 per ann.

Ever tried politics? Make wild assertions based on figures plucked from
thin air whilst knowing sod all about my lifestyle or house.


Our GWA unit was 22 years old & still going strong, but SWMBO wanted
radiators, so radiators we got.

Did you write that properly? She wanted "radiators" when none were there?


Did you read it properly? That's exactly what I said.


The biggest benefit for us was the space reclaimed by ripping out the
cupboards containing the unit (in kitchen) and the DHW tank (first floor
bedroom). Two square metres doesn't sound much, but both rooms became
square and feel a lot bigger,

Should have put the warm air unit in the loft, where all equipment should
go.


Yup, a new equipment room and insulated ducting on my flat roof would
have saved me a fortune.


--
Keith

"Keith" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

Our gas bill
dropped by around £90 per year, so we're still some way off it paying
for itself :-)

If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have dropped by
around £100 per ann.

Ever tried politics? Make wild assertions
based on figures plucked from
thin air whilst knowing sod all about my
lifestyle or house.

As I designed the things I know what I am on about. Forced air is cheaper
to run than rads. You can have the room temperature lower as cold stops are
eliminated using a positive pressure system. If you have a lifestyle of
unset hours they are business. They are on-demand heat. The warm up is
super fast.

Our GWA unit was 22 years old & still going strong, but SWMBO wanted
radiators, so radiators we got.

Did you write that properly? She wanted "radiators" when none were
there?

Did you read it properly? That's exactly what I said.

I am amazed! It's always the other way around. She wanted to have rads on
the wall? And you let her?

The biggest benefit for us was the space reclaimed by ripping out the
cupboards containing the unit (in kitchen) and the DHW tank (first
floor
bedroom). Two square metres doesn't sound much, but both rooms became
square and feel a lot bigger,

Should have put the warm air unit in the
loft, where all equipment should go.

Yup, a new equipment room and insulated
ducting on my flat roof would
have saved me a fortune.

Glad to hear.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

As I designed the things I know what I am on about. Forced air is cheaper
to run than rads.

By your calculations a whopping 2.7 pence per day.

You can have the room temperature lower as cold stops are
eliminated using a positive pressure system. If you have a lifestyle of
unset hours they are business. They are on-demand heat. The warm up is
super fast.


Horses for courses, some people actually like temperature variations
throughout a room, SWMBO revels in warming her arse on a hot rad, doing
the same over a floor mounted vent doesn't seem so appealing, somehow.

Our GWA unit was 22 years old & still going strong, but SWMBO wanted
radiators, so radiators we got.


I am amazed! It's always the other way around. She wanted to have rads on
the wall? And you let her?

A conversion had left a new bedroom unheated and it's much easier
running 10mil copper under floorboards than 8 by 4 ducting, an 'old'
heating system was replaced by new as daughter's asthma was perceived to
be worsened by the 'dusty' system, and I've already listed the other
deciding factors:

The biggest benefit for us was the space reclaimed by ripping out the
cupboards containing the unit (in kitchen) and the DHW tank (first
floor
bedroom). Two square metres doesn't sound much, but both rooms became
square and feel a lot bigger,



--
Keith

In article ,
Keith wrote:
If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have dropped by
around £100 per ann.

Ever tried politics? Make wild assertions based on figures plucked from
thin air whilst knowing sod all about my lifestyle or house.

The IMM ****** recommends removing header tanks and storage cylinders 'to
save space'. But is in favour of warm air heating.

Draw your own conclusions...

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith wrote:
If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have dropped by
around £100 per ann.

Ever tried politics? Make wild assertions based on figures plucked from
thin air whilst knowing sod all about my lifestyle or house.

The

...this man is mad
...not just a tad
...he's clearly all the way
...the tossing of cabers
...he practices each day






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith wrote:
If you replaced it with a modern arm air unit you would have
dropped by
around £100 per ann.

Ever tried politics? Make wild assertions based on figures plucked
from
thin air whilst knowing sod all about my lifestyle or house.

The IMM ****** recommends removing header tanks and storage
cylinders 'to
save space'. But is in favour of warm air heating.

Draw your own conclusions...


Yes indeed, but I suspect his 'thinking' is along the lines of
theoretical efficiencies, the space use for hot and cold water tanks
is better used for forced air heating equipment.

As you say, if one understands modern forced air systems, draw your
own conclusions...