Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they be
available and for how much ?

"Mike" wrote in message
...

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they be
available and for how much ?

A press release from Gledhill, the intelligent thermal store manufacturer.
http://www.gledhill.net/water-storag...cle14-mchp.htm

The first 550 houses are under construction right now. Powergen have been
doing trials for a few years with the Whispergen Stirling and Gledhill
thermal store. http://www.whispergen.co.uk Another company, Microgen are to
introduce a Stirling version, probably using the Gledhill store too. Their
unit is made by Rennai in Japan, although designed in the UK.
http://www.microgendirect.com/main2.swf The Microgen has a free wheeling
piston Stirling with the power generating coils in the piston and around the
cylinder. The Japanese are very keen on this technology. The UK government
is actively promoting mCHP, although it can only ever be a medium term fix.
The long term has to be not using masses amount of energy to begin with.

The gas bills are no different to using a normal condensing boiler, but the
electricity bills drop by around 1/3, depending on household. As
electricity is 4 times the price of gas here, that is a considerable saving
to the home owner. As time moves on and more energy efficient appliances
are being introduced, so savings may be greater on the electricity side as
the Stirling unit would provide more local power than drawing in off the
grid.

Then there is the environmental impact of less emissions and less power
infrastructure, which may mean less electricity pylons ruining the views of
the countryside.

See my recent post on this. The Gledhill web site has a few slide show
presentations and a page on the central control system that the power
provider may use to operate the units remotely.





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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Mike wrote:

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the
first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they
be
available and for how much ?

The unit in question is a "Whispergen", but don't get your hopes up.
They were originally designed to provide power, DHW and heating for
yachts and as such they are a tad under-sized for domestic use. The
electrical power output is laughably small and they only makes any kind
of sense if installed in large numbers and used to feed current back
into the grid when supply exceeds demand.

They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.



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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Mike wrote:

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the
first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they
be
available and for how much ?

The unit in question is a "Whispergen", but don't get your hopes up.
They were originally designed to provide power, DHW and heating for
yachts and as such they are a tad under-sized for domestic use. The
electrical power output is laughably small and they only makes any kind
of sense if installed in large numbers and used to feed current back
into the grid when supply exceeds demand.

The heat output probably demands use of a thermal store of some sortto
buffer the heat generated in the same way. I guess they may well work
wonderfully as a source of heat for underfloor heating.

If you look up "Whispergen" you will find lots of information about them
on the web. They aren't cheap either, units for boats cost in the region
£2300 to £3500.


Thanks and I will do. Hopefully costs will drop but the key advantage I can
see is we have so many short power-cuts that if the heating keeps itself,
the lights and computer on during these then it's a big gain. However I
will need an LPG one which presumably is some way off.

They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

This brings into question the safety of using such generation devices.

Generators should be isolated from back-feeding onto the supply network,
and afaik no meters are yet available to allow the "export" back onto the
network for a domestic customer.

I spotted an article about an ex-environment minister (?) Donald Dewer I
think ? - who was extolling the virtues of being the first to use a "home
generation windmill" that simply needed to be plugged into a 13A socket,
but no mention was made of a method of isolating that supply from the
network.

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"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

This brings into question the safety of using such generation devices.

Generators should be isolated from back-feeding onto the supply network,
and afaik no meters are yet available to allow the "export" back onto the
network for a domestic customer.

I spotted an article about an ex-environment minister (?) Donald Dewer I
think ? - who was extolling the virtues of being the first to use a "home
generation windmill" that simply needed to be plugged into a 13A socket,
but no mention was made of a method of isolating that supply from the
network.


There are several wind turbines for home/small business use that drive back
into the grid and turn the meter back, albeit not at a 1:1 rate. But none
use a 13A plug and socket fortunately !

In article ,
Colin Wilson writes:
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

This brings into question the safety of using such generation devices.

Generators should be isolated from back-feeding onto the supply network,
and afaik no meters are yet available to allow the "export" back onto the
network for a domestic customer.

They've been in use in the UK for some 10 years at least.
Maggie's conservative government forced the electricity suppliers
to buy back any excess electricity a domestic consumer manages to
generate and offer to the grid. To encourage the market to get
started, the supplier had to pay for the metering and safety
equipment required to prevent backfeeding a failed supply (I don't
know if that's still the case). Actually, because the CHP equipment
has to sychronise to the grid supply frequency, to a first approximation
it can't actually work when there is a mains supply failure. There
were some add-on optional products proposed to enable a CHP system
to operate when the mains supply has failed, but when I last looked
(some time ago), none were actually at product status, only planning.

I spotted an article about an ex-environment minister (?) Donald Dewer I
think ? - who was extolling the virtues of being the first to use a "home
generation windmill" that simply needed to be plugged into a 13A socket,
but no mention was made of a method of isolating that supply from the
network.

You get a whole replacement meter setup which does the business.
(There's no dial going backwards. You have separate digital meters
recording what you used, and what you supplied back to the grid,
as the cost per unit in each direction can be quite different.)

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

Well yes. In the same way as your 'most' baths have about two inches of
tepid water.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You get a whole replacement meter setup which does the business.
(There's no dial going backwards. You have separate digital meters
recording what you used, and what you supplied back to the grid,
as the cost per unit in each direction can be quite different.)

Not from the meter people i`ve spoken to who are in at the sharp end...
(i`m talking at a REC here)

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"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
You get a whole replacement meter setup which does the business.
(There's no dial going backwards. You have separate digital meters
recording what you used, and what you supplied back to the grid,
as the cost per unit in each direction can be quite different.)

Not from the meter people i`ve spoken to who are in at the sharp end...
(i`m talking at a REC here)

Obviously this REC doesn't talk to its energy retailers then :

http://www.powergen.co.uk/Pub/Dom/A/...ndInitiative.a
spx?id=9

Not from the meter people i`ve spoken to who are in at the sharp end...
(i`m talking at a REC here)
Obviously this REC doesn't talk to its energy retailers then :
http://www.powergen.co.uk/Pub/Dom/A/...ndInitiative.a
spx?id=9

Interesting - thanks !

It was about 18 months ago when I asked, so the position might have
changed since...

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

Well yes. In the same way as your 'most' baths have about two inches of
tepid water.

Having killfiled the dribbling idiot a while ago its refreshing to
know combi knows nothing about metering either (in addition to
everything else). The era of induction disc meters being able to turn
backwards disappeared some 10-15 years ago. There is no way any
generation would be permitted at any level (transmission or
distribution) without islanding protection and proper bi directional
metering in place. It's a reality in some areas of the USA for
instance to have "Net Metering" but in the UK its just not going to
happen because of entrenched interests. Also it would appear that yet
again Dr Combi has probably only read about whispergen online -
whereas i've used one as a sole source of heat and electricity for
months at a time.

I some ways I miss his "two combi's mean you never have to have a cold
bath because there is always one working if one goes wrong" ramblings
- but then again perhaps not.

Hi,

I think the turbine referred to is this one touted by one time Energy
Minister Brian Wilson -

http://www.windsave.com/

There is no information on how it deals with islanding (preventing it
from energising the grid when the grid is down) or how you would go
about getting a rebate from your electricity supplier.

Just in case anyone reading this is thinking of buying one - do some
research first. My personal opinion is that this looks well dodgy. For
instance, it is rated at 1KW at 12m/s - i.e. 27mph - not a wind speed
commonly found in urban areas.

Alan.

"Alan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I think the turbine referred to is this one touted by one time Energy
Minister Brian Wilson -

http://www.windsave.com/

There is no information on how it deals with islanding (preventing it
from energising the grid when the grid is down) or how you would go
about getting a rebate from your electricity supplier.

Just in case anyone reading this is thinking of buying one - do some
research first. My personal opinion is that this looks well dodgy. For
instance, it is rated at 1KW at 12m/s - i.e. 27mph - not a wind speed
commonly found in urban areas.

Go and stand on your roof (or ask any roofer) and you might be surprised.
Perhaps not 27mph but certainly regularly 20mph.

"Roland" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is
below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

Well yes. In the same way as your 'most' baths have about two inches of
tepid water.

It's a reality in some areas of the USA for
instance to have "Net Metering" but in the UK
its just not going tohappen because of
entrenched interests.

A pair of idiotic fools. The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation". Don't
you just like the Internet? Any halfwit fool can said what he likes, even
though he knows sweet FA about the topic. Even though I gave the links to
the info he still got it wrong. Such fun.



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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...
The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation".

And the information you provided previously was most useful as well.


Don't you just like ....

Why when you are giving useful information do you need to knock others ? If
you didn't do it they wouldn't do it back.

(Steve Firth) wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:

Any halfwit fool can said what he likes

And you always do.

.....and the dim idiot Dr Combi evidently doesn't even know what Net
Metering is and how this is a completely different concept to Grid
Tied.

The whispergen units along with many other types of embedded
generation can and are grid tied in the UK. BUT I repeat it again as
apparently the stupid ****wit failed to understand what I said the
first time:

net metering isn't going to happen in the UK because of entrenched
interests.

Got it dim wit or is your head completely full of dual combi plumbing
arrangements?



--

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
A pair of idiotic fools. The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation". Don't
you just like the Internet? Any halfwit fool can said what he likes, even
though he knows sweet FA about the topic. Even though I gave the links to
the info he still got it wrong. Such fun.

Don't you just love internet fools who believe everything they read there?

Presumably you now have a 15 inch cock?

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Roland" wrote in message
...
net metering isn't going to happen in the UK because of entrenched
interests.

Could you please explain what you mean by "net metering".

http://www.powergen.co.uk/Pub/Dom/A/...ndInitiative.a
spx?id=9
makes it quite clear you can sell self generated electricity back to your
supplier so I am not sure what it is you say won't happen.

"Roland" wrote in message
...
(Steve Firth) wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:

Any halfwit fool can said what he likes

And you always do.

....and

...another nut. Comes from nowhere and knows all the answers - alas knows few
and gives "opinions" of how it "will" be. Only on the internet. Go climb
back down your sewer.




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"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation".

And the information you provided
previously was most useful as well.

Don't you just like ....

Why when you are giving useful
information do you need to knock others ?

Knock others? Did you read what the arsehole wrote?



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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Evil wrote:

Any halfwit fool can said what he likes

And you always do.

we all thought you were ****ing off to Italy. Why haven't you gone? Go
quickly!


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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation".

And the information you provided
previously was most useful as well.

Don't you just like ....

Why when you are giving useful
information do you need to knock others ?

Knock others? Did you read what the arsehole wrote?

Yes. It wasn't needed. But insulting back doesn't actually help.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

A pair of idiotic fools. The Whispergen/Powergen units going in, in
Manchester are grid-tied. They are "distributed power generation".
Don't
you just like the Internet? Any halfwit fool can said what he likes,
even
though he knows sweet FA about the topic. Even though I gave the links
to
the info he still got it wrong. Such fun.

Don't you just love internet fools who believe everything they read there?

Presumably you now have a 15 inch cock?

...the man is mad, not just a tad
...he's clearly all the way
...babbling drivel and tripe he clearly has a say
...his saying it is very dire
...of it he will never tire

...the man is mad, not just a tad
...he's clearly all the way
...giving bad advice we know not why
...thinking he is wise on DIY

...the man is mad, not just a tad
...he's clearly all the way
...of large private parts he likes to drool
...the parts he can't measure with his one foot rule




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"Mike" wrote:

"Roland" wrote in message
.. .
net metering isn't going to happen in the UK because of entrenched
interests.

Could you please explain what you mean by "net metering".

http://www.powergen.co.uk/Pub/Dom/A/...ndInitiative.a
spx?id=9
makes it quite clear you can sell self generated electricity back to your
supplier so I am not sure what it is you say won't happen.


The example you gave is unique in the industry and unfortunately does
not apply to whispergen chp from powergen nor indeed any other
embedded domestic generation in the uk.

Pricing of demand and generation Its the critical thing on all these
schemes. When you are on net metering you purchase electricity from
the grid at the same instantaneous price that you sell it back. With
the right incentives and price structures in place you can defer
consumption at peak times and sell your surplus back to the grid.
Bearing in mind that the instantaneous network price can easily change
by an order of magnitude during a normal day you can see the
advantages in doing this. Most consumers however pay a smoothed price
that stays the same or drops to a low rate at night (economy 7)

If you are on the usual schemes for embedded generation at the
domestic level promoted in the UK you might pay 8 pence per unit for
your electricity taken from the grid, but only receive 2.5p for
electricity you supply. This discrimination vastly increases the time
to repay your investment making it unprofitable to install in the
first place without other incentives such as direct grants. The whole
system is a mess but its all a deliberate act as this disincentive is
there purely because if embedded generation was rolled out on a larger
scale it would defer capital expenditure by both distribution and
possibly transmission networks directly reducing their income.
Despite it being plainly a very good thing its not welcomed by the UK
electricity industry.

On 18 Apr 2005 08:56:54 -0700, Alan wrote:

For instance, it is rated at 1KW at 12m/s - i.e. 27mph - not a wind
speed commonly found in urban areas.

Quite, we are at 1400' and exposed to the SW'lys very nicely. We do
get storms with sustained speeds in the 40 and 50mph range but normal
sustained speed is more like 15mph (6m/s ish). It's very noticeable
when you drop down into the town how much reduced the wind is.

Flipin heck I've just looked at the Techinical spec page and I quote

"Supplementary 240v - 50Hz feeding into the property via a 13amp
plug."

Feeding into! WTF... Is there no automatic protection in event of a
grid failure or maybe there is and the invertor trips out unless it
can detect grid 240v on the socket. So no nice little backup supply
which surely must be a selling point?

I'd also pay attention to the acoustic noise figures and see if you
can find out what the noise sounds like. There have been several small
modern turbines around here that I wouldn't like in my back garden or
bolted to the house vibrating the walls... And don't think it's one of
those little yacht battery top up turbines either it is 5' 8" in dia.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
..the man is mad, not just a tad
..he's clearly all the way
..babbling drivel and tripe he clearly has a say
..his saying it is very dire
..of it he will never tire

You've not found a cure for your 'poetry' infection?

Seek professional help before it's terminal.

Or perhaps not.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Evil wrote:

we all thought you were ****ing off to Italy.

That's "we" as in you and the voices in your head is it?

When are you going?


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"Roland" wrote in message
...

If you are on the usual schemes for
embedded generation at the
domestic level promoted in the UK
you might pay 8 pence per unit for
your electricity taken from the grid,
but only receive 2.5p for electricity
you supply. This discrimination
vastly increases the time
to repay your investment making it
unprofitable to install in the
first place without other incentives
such as direct grants.

So the rumour goes. Electricity is a "by-product" of these units. So, if you
are in winter and heating the house and DHW you will get 1.1/1.2 kW of
elecricty, which you will not be paying 4 times the price of gas to use. Any
suplus that goes into the grid, that you get money for is a bonus. You don't
use these unit for electricity only use, as there is too much waster heat.
Although, depending on the cost of producing electity, It still may be
financially worth it, even wasting heat.

They work well with large thermal stores. One long burn to heat it up and
use the stored heat on demand. A control system to monitor stored energy in
the store and electricity demand may be useful. If say there is electricty
demand for a tumble dryer the units can cut in and store the surplus heat in
the store. A level of spare storage may have to be kept, when for large
electrity demands, then it stores to maximum capacity, in volume and
temperature.

As long as gas is 4 times cheaper it will be feasible. With large takeup,
and mass production, the units will be well priced. But I would prefer to
use two combi's.



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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Evil wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Evil wrote:

we all thought you were ****ing off to Italy.

That's "we" as in you and the voices in your head is it?

When are you going?

I wouldn't **** in your mouth if your teeth were on fire. So stop
begging me to.

You are not going? How disappointing.


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"Roland" wrote in message
...
"Mike" wrote:

"Roland" wrote in message
.. .
net metering isn't going to happen in the UK because of entrenched
interests.

Could you please explain what you mean by "net metering".


http://www.powergen.co.uk/Pub/Dom/A/...yAndInitiative.
a
spx?id=9
makes it quite clear you can sell self generated electricity back to your
supplier so I am not sure what it is you say won't happen.


The example you gave is unique in the industry and unfortunately does
not apply to whispergen chp from powergen nor indeed any other
embedded domestic generation in the uk.

That's fair enough. Generators have an obligation to generate green
electricity so anybody selling them green power allows them to meet this but
a microCHP is definitely not green. I would imagine there will be similar
schemes for wind and hydro power in due course.

In message , Mike
writes

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Mike wrote:

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the
first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they
be
available and for how much ?

Thanks and I will do. Hopefully costs will drop but the key advantage I can
see is we have so many short power-cuts that if the heating keeps itself,
the lights and computer on during these then it's a big gain. However I
will need an LPG one which presumably is some way off.


We have been thinking about geothermal underfloor heating and possibly
using a domestic windmill to power the pumping. Reading this thread has
given me something to think about. Does anyone know if the small
windmills have a cut off if the winds are strong? Because here in the
NE Scotland our winds are usually strong and it would seem silly to
install a system that is not going to work when it is cold and windy and
the heating is really needed.
--
Sue Begg
Remove my clothes to reply

Do not mess in the affairs of dragons - for
you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

"Sue Begg" wrote in message
...
In message , Mike


We have been thinking about geothermal underfloor heating and possibly
using a domestic windmill to power the pumping. Reading this thread has
given me something to think about. Does anyone know if the small
windmills have a cut off if the winds are strong?

Yes - the clutch lets go to stop over-driving.

Because here in the
NE Scotland our winds are usually strong and it would seem silly to
install a system that is not going to work when it is cold and windy and
the heating is really needed.

I think they first try turning away from the wind to calm down the spin so I
doubt if you will lose much. I doubt if in a hurricane your heating isn't
the first thing on your mind :-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

Don't you just love internet fools who believe everything they read
there?

Presumably you now have a 15 inch cock?

I heard of one guy who calculated all the cumulative claimed results of
his spam, and concluded that if he'd bought them all, he could be up to
7' by now.

NT

In message ,
Sue Begg wrote:

In message , Mike
writes

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Mike wrote:

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the
first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they
be
available and for how much ?

Thanks and I will do. Hopefully costs will drop but the key advantage I can
see is we have so many short power-cuts that if the heating keeps itself,
the lights and computer on during these then it's a big gain. However I
will need an LPG one which presumably is some way off.


We have been thinking about geothermal underfloor heating and possibly
using a domestic windmill to power the pumping. Reading this thread has
given me something to think about. Does anyone know if the small
windmills have a cut off if the winds are strong? Because here in the
NE Scotland our winds are usually strong and it would seem silly to
install a system that is not going to work when it is cold and windy and
the heating is really needed.

I once downloaded some brochures from Cholwell Energy Systems (whose
website now seems to be offline). They sold several generating solutions
including windmills. Their larger models had some kind of automatic
feathering on the blades which enabled them to produce full rated output
up to 150mph windspeed (no mention of what happened over that). The
small model, the "AIR 403", had "aeroelastic carbon fibre blades" which
bent (or twisted I suppose) in the wind having a similar effect to
feathering but without all of the mechanics.

I still have the PDFs if anyone's interested.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)

In article .com,
wrote:
Don't you just love internet fools who believe everything they read
there?

Presumably you now have a 15 inch cock?

I heard of one guy who calculated all the cumulative claimed results of
his spam, and concluded that if he'd bought them all, he could be up to
7' by now.

Well, reduction is needed by some.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Mike wrote:

Visited the Homebuilding and Renovation show at NEC and saw for the
first
time a MicroCHP which really looked the dog's doodahs. It was on the
PowerGen stand but of course nobody had any details on how to buy one.

Does anybody know the commercial situation with these ? When will they
be
available and for how much ?

The unit in question is a "Whispergen", but don't get your hopes up.
They were originally designed to provide power, DHW and heating for
Thanks and I will do. Hopefully costs will drop but the key advantage I can
see is we have so many short power-cuts that if the heating keeps itself,
the lights and computer on during these then it's a big gain. However I
will need an LPG one which presumably is some way off.
o
As I understand it, it won't do this if the mains goes off, as it's designed
to pump it back into the grid.

Roland wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They can supply about 50% of a homes electricity usage, as most is below
1.1kW. If using below 1.1 kW it turns the meter backwards. Grid-tied.

Well yes. In the same way as your 'most' baths have about two inches of
tepid water.

Having killfiled the dribbling idiot a while ago its refreshing to
know combi knows nothing about metering either (in addition to
everything else). The era of induction disc meters being able to turn
backwards disappeared some 10-15 years ago. There is no way any

Looks at my 40 year old meter.

On 21 Apr 2005 00:07:00 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

The era of induction disc meters being able to turn backwards
disappeared some 10-15 years ago. There is no way any

Looks at my 40 year old meter.

It may look 40yrs old but lecky meters are supposed to be replaced
every 10 years by your local supplier as a matter of routine...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article om,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On 21 Apr 2005 00:07:00 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

The era of induction disc meters being able to turn backwards
disappeared some 10-15 years ago. There is no way any

Looks at my 40 year old meter.

It may look 40yrs old but lecky meters are supposed to be replaced
every 10 years by your local supplier as a matter of routine...

All the ones I know of are much older than that, mostly very much so.
My parents' one is nearly 50 years old, although it had a new glass
fitted about 35 years ago when the ironing board fell out of the
cupboard landing on my dad, and he kicked it back in again anger.

I was involved in a remote meter reading project in the early 1990's.
At that time, the meters were spec'ed with a 40 year life expectancy
and a 10 year replacement guarantee. The 40 year life expectancy ruled
out the use of LCD and LED displays, and anything but the most basic
semiconductor components (certainly nothing microcontroller based).
Things seem to have changed since then though -- I don't think anyone
in the industry thinks anything like 40 years ahead anymore.

--
Andrew Gabriel