Now that we're nearing the end of work on the inside of the house, it's
time to start considering the outside. The biggest change there will be
a deck across the back of the house. I'd really like to have a hot tub
sunk into the deck.

I've looked around a lot, and there seem to be two types of commercially
available tubs. There are the GRP shell type tubs
(e.g. http://www.sundance-spas.co.uk/Spa-Showroom-Index.html), and
there are the timber barrel type tubs
(e.g. http://www.woodentubs.com/index.html).

I don't really like the idea/look of the GRP ones at all. In addition,
the bigger ones get very expensive, and most of them are a little on the
shallow side.

I like the timber ones, but they tend to be lacking in insulation. I'd
like a well insulated tub.

So I'm thinking about building one from scratch. The water heating and
circulation aspects I'm pretty happy with. What I'm not sure about is
the actual construction and waterproofing of the tub.

I can think of two main ways of doing this. Timber frame faced with
marine ply which is then tiled, or concrete block which is then tiled.

One of the main requirements will be to insulate the tub with 100mm
kingspan. I can see how it's achieve this on the sides and bottom of the
timber framed version, but I can't quite picture how I'd do it on the
block version, without doing a double skin of blockwork. One option is
to not insulated, and just use aerated blocks, but I haven't looked at
the U values yet.

As far as size goes, I'm thinking aound 2.5-3m long by 1.5-2m wide, and
about 1m deep. If done in ply this will be rounded to nearest board sizes.

So, any thoughts? Anyone done/seen/heard of anything similar? How was it
built? How was it insulated? How would you do this?


--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:

So, any thoughts? Anyone done/seen/heard of anything similar? How was it
built? How was it insulated? How would you do this?

How about casting it in concrete? Build a former with shuttering ply and
then fill. Once set insulate the inside and insert second former and
fill it again so the insulation ends up cast inside.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

How about casting it in concrete? Build a former with shuttering ply and
then fill. Once set insulate the inside and insert second former and
fill it again so the insulation ends up cast inside.

Hmmm... I hadn't considered that. But it does sound like a lot of work!
Given the size of it, I'd want to get readymix, and because it has to be
done in two shots I'd need two partial loads.

Just been looking at the U values for thermalite - for 9" thickness it's
0.08, which doesn't compare favourably with 50mm of kingspan (0.022). If
I do it in block, I think I'll have to figure out a way of insulating as
well.

--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:
I'd really like to have a hot tub sunk into the deck.

One of the main requirements will be to insulate the tub

Seems like an ideal project for expanding PU foam.

My brother's fibreglass tub was delivered fully plumbed and open framed
which showed 200mm or so sprayed on the outside. It appeared to be the last
job they did as it was covering the pipework, lights, and pump brackets in
many places. Cover panels are fitted on site after the hook up and mounting
has been completed, maintenance is via these panels.

The spec meant the deck had to be lowered in that area so the tub could be
ground supported, the bonus was it gave it more privacy and cosiness to the
installation.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

I'd really like to have a hot tub sunk into the deck.

One of the main requirements will be to insulate the tub

Seems like an ideal project for expanding PU foam.

My brother's fibreglass tub was delivered fully plumbed and open framed
which showed 200mm or so sprayed on the outside. It appeared to be the last
job they did as it was covering the pipework, lights, and pump brackets in
many places. Cover panels are fitted on site after the hook up and mounting
has been completed, maintenance is via these panels.

The spec meant the deck had to be lowered in that area so the tub could be
ground supported, the bonus was it gave it more privacy and cosiness to the
installation.

Probably the first Japanese hot tub built in this country was built by
a bloke I know who was in the Korean war (and presumably spent most of
the war in a hot tub) He used a stainless steel milk container, bought
cheap at some farm disposal sale. Its a very good hot tub (speaking
from experience here) and since then he has built several more the
same way for other friends

Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:56:45 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Now that we're nearing the end of work on the inside of the house, it's
time to start considering the outside. The biggest change there will be
a deck across the back of the house. I'd really like to have a hot tub
sunk into the deck.

Fair do's if that's where you want it, but I wonder just how much use
it'll get once the novelty's worn off. You need to keep it covered to
stop the debris getting in, and to keep the heat in. That short bit from
indoors to the tub might seem like a mile hike when it's cold and wet! I
know the Americans always show them outside, even with snow on the
ground, but I do wonder how much use they get.

We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year use,
even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even the undercover
walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a thought......

wanderer wrote:

Fair do's if that's where you want it, but I wonder just how much use
it'll get once the novelty's worn off.

Hehe.. This is exactly what SWMBO said.


You need to keep it covered to
stop the debris getting in, and to keep the heat in. That short bit from
indoors to the tub might seem like a mile hike when it's cold and wet! I
know the Americans always show them outside, even with snow on the
ground, but I do wonder how much use they get.

We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year use,
even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even the undercover
walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a thought......

That is a very good thought. There's a bit of me that really wants to
sit outsie in hot water in the freezing cold. But there's another, more
logical bit which thinks you may be spot on.

--
Grunff

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:30:38 +0100, Grunff wrote:

wanderer wrote:

Fair do's if that's where you want it, but I wonder just how much use
it'll get once the novelty's worn off.

Hehe.. This is exactly what SWMBO said.


You need to keep it covered to
stop the debris getting in, and to keep the heat in. That short bit from
indoors to the tub might seem like a mile hike when it's cold and wet! I
know the Americans always show them outside, even with snow on the
ground, but I do wonder how much use they get.

We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year use,
even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even the undercover
walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a thought......

That is a very good thought. There's a bit of me that really wants to
sit outsie in hot water in the freezing cold. But there's another, more
logical bit which thinks you may be spot on.

FWIW, I have a friend in northern California who has a sunk in hot tub
and pool in his back yard. I've been invited to use it a few times
when I've visited. The coldest was on a February evening, and I
guess the temperature was about the same as it is in late September
here. They don't tend to get serious freezing there - it touches
zero overnight perhaps a couple of nights a year.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:30:38 +0100, Grunff wrote:

wanderer wrote:

snip

We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year use,
even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even the undercover
walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a thought......

That is a very good thought. There's a bit of me that really wants to
sit outsie in hot water in the freezing cold.

Yers, but remember, your shoulders will almost certainly be out of the
water........

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:37:19 +0100, wanderer
wrote:


Fair do's if that's where you want it, but I wonder just how much use
it'll get once the novelty's worn off. You need to keep it covered to
stop the debris getting in, and to keep the heat in. That short bit from
indoors to the tub might seem like a mile hike when it's cold and wet! I
know the Americans always show them outside, even with snow on the
ground, but I do wonder how much use they get.

You certainly will need to keep it covered.

My parents had an open air swimming pool in the back garden.

Even with a pool filtration system, it was necessary to hoover the
base of the pool one a week.

Graham

"Grunff" wrote
| We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year
| use, even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even
| the undercover walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a
| thought......
| That is a very good thought. There's a bit of me that really wants
| to sit outsie in hot water in the freezing cold. But there's another,
| more logical bit which thinks you may be spot on.

I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate* them.

I know global warming's coming, but I think a sauna would be more practical,
especially it access from the house can be arranged. And if the OP's missus
loses interest in using it after a while, it's ripe for conversion into a
super-insulated shed.

Owain

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Owain" writes:
"Grunff" wrote
| We have an above ground spa in our conservatory, that gets all-year
| use, even with a scattering of snow on the roof, and TBH, even
| the undercover walk can seem a bit chilly at times. Just a
| thought......
| That is a very good thought. There's a bit of me that really wants
| to sit outsie in hot water in the freezing cold. But there's another,
| more logical bit which thinks you may be spot on.

I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for
buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate* them.

Any idea why?


Wonder if we'll find out tonight..., 20:00

http://www.five.tv/home/frameset/?content=98887&


Will probably take some viewer discretion for separating the wheat from the
meeeja-type journalistic chaff though.

Last week's "20 ways to make money..." was about 50% actually adding value
through doing stuff, and 50% acheiving the actual market potential of your
house by not detracting from it (subtle, but think "do the washing up - wow,
an instant £10k added" as opposed to "add extension - wow an instant £10k
added" kind of thing).


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Owain wrote:

I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate* them.

Thanks for pointing it out, but I really couldn't care less. I do stuff
to our house because we live here and that's how we want things. I
cannot understand how so many people can think that the 'future resale
vlaue' of the house needs to be considered every time you consider doing
something!


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Now that we're nearing the end of work on the inside of the house, it's
time to start considering the outside. The biggest change there will be
a deck across the back of the house. I'd really like to have a hot tub
sunk into the deck.

Neighbours of ours have a hot tub on their back patio (I think it is
fibreglass with a wood surround).

We were quite taken with the idea until we discovered that it is filled then
chemicals are added to stop the water going manky - so you are tubbing in a
chemical stew (much like a swimming pool).

They love it, and use it most days winter and summer, but we were a little
put off, liking the thought of fresh water each time.

I realise that a hot tub hold several times the amount of water that a
normal bath holds, and also that most times the location is not chosen for
suitability for drainage or filling directly from the hot&cold, but has
anyone seen or built a hot tub which is plumbed in more like a normal bath?

I guess you could run H&C in insulated pipes, and have a 'sump with a pump'
if you are in the wrong gravitational direction from your main drainage, but
this would make life somewhat more complicated.

Cheers
Dave R

David W.E. Roberts wrote:

We were quite taken with the idea until we discovered that it is filled then
chemicals are added to stop the water going manky - so you are tubbing in a
chemical stew (much like a swimming pool).

Nah, 'chemicals' aren't so bad. Really depends what you're putting in
and how much. Also, if you're really fussy, you could go for a filter/UV
arrangement, with no chemical treatment.


I realise that a hot tub hold several times the amount of water that a
normal bath holds

About 10x


and also that most times the location is not chosen for
suitability for drainage or filling directly from the hot&cold, but has
anyone seen or built a hot tub which is plumbed in more like a normal bath?

I think that would be an abomination. The idea of wasting 1.5 tonnes of
water, and a huge amount of energy for a one off use is terrible. In
addition, you'd need a *huge* heater to get the water up to temp in any
reasonable timescale.


--
Grunff

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:01:07 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Owain wrote:

I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate* them.

Thanks for pointing it out, but I really couldn't care less. I do stuff
to our house because we live here and that's how we want things. I
cannot understand how so many people can think that the 'future resale
vlaue' of the house needs to be considered every time you consider doing
something!


Hear, hear.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Huge" wrote
| I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according
| to one of the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest
| turn-offs for buyers in this country is an outside swimming pool.
| A lot of people *hate* them.
| Any idea why?

1970s footballer naff?
High running costs (cleaning, heating, etc)?
Most people don't swim outdoors all year round?
Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
Kiddies might fall in and drown?


Owain

In article , says...
I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate* them.
Any idea why?

Heh, my ex-inlaws in NZ have a pool. They hate it too. It adds about two
hours per week to the chores list, two hours of quite tedious cleaning
and wiping and measuring out smelly chemicals. And that is /with/ one of
those automatic skuttling things that sucks the algae off the bottom.
Plus, with all the regulations, it all has to be gated-in in a quite
unattractive way so passing children don't fall in (they are 10km from
town).

With their work and the farm, they use it about twice a year.

If they weren't about to sell up and move to the coast, they'd have
filled it in years ago.




--
David J Rainey

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:32:24 +0100, Grunff wrote:

David W.E. Roberts wrote:

We were quite taken with the idea until we discovered that it is filled then
chemicals are added to stop the water going manky - so you are tubbing in a
chemical stew (much like a swimming pool).

Nah, 'chemicals' aren't so bad. Really depends what you're putting in
and how much. Also, if you're really fussy, you could go for a filter/UV
arrangement, with no chemical treatment.

You should have a filter anyway - cartridge works best with a small
water volume.

As to chemicals, beware those with a chlorine/bromine base - Aquatabs I
think was the brand I started with. They are marketed specifically for
hot tubs and spas coz the bromine is more stable at the higher
temperature (nominally 40ºC for a spa) but some people can have skin
problems with bromine - me for instance! I stoppeed using the spa for a
week and the rashes went! I now use Bayroklar Spa. It's a two part
treatment, a capful of liquid once a week and one or two tablets daily,
although after the first few days, I drop back to one tab every two or
three days. The water stays nice and clear and largely free from foam.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Owain wrote:

I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according to one
of
the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest turn-offs for
buyers
in this country is an outside swimming pool. A lot of people *hate*
them.

Thanks for pointing it out, but I really couldn't care less. I do stuff
to our house because we live here and that's how we want things. I
cannot understand how so many people can think that the 'future resale
vlaue' of the house needs to be considered every time you consider doing
something!

Absolutely. The only really good reason for doing
some work on your own house is because it's something
you're going to get the benefit of.

Al

"Huge" wrote
| Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
| Kiddies might fall in and drown?
| Naah, the last one's a benefit.

Okay, I'll rewrite that then:

- Can't drown kiddies without the neighbours watching

Owain

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:56:45 +0100, Grunff wrote:

So, any thoughts? Anyone done/seen/heard of anything similar? How was it
built? How was it insulated? How would you do this?
Hi,

Never built one but I would think about whether it's in the sun and
sheltered it is from the wind, and how much privacy there was.

cheers,
Pete.

In message , Huge
writes
"Owain" writes:
"Huge" wrote
| I don't know if hot tubs count as swimming pools, but according
| to one of the How To Sell A House programmes, one of the biggest
| turn-offs for buyers in this country is an outside swimming pool.
| A lot of people *hate* them.
| Any idea why?

1970s footballer naff?
High running costs (cleaning, heating, etc)?
Most people don't swim outdoors all year round?
Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
Kiddies might fall in and drown?

Naah, the last one's a benefit.

Come to think of it, the previous one might be a laugh - I have a couple
of nuns for neighbours

--
geoff

When we go skiing we usually get a place with a hot tub and it gets
used every day. I guess it's below freezing outside and sometimes it's
actually been snowing while we were out there. The heat coming off
the water keeps your head & shoulders warm & if anything it's nice to
be able to get a little cool air. In the UK though, the weather is
usally so crap that I doubt it'll get much use. I guess they're no
fun if it's raining!

In message , Owain
writes
"raden" wrote
| Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
| Kiddies might fall in and drown?
| Naah, the last one's a benefit.
| Come to think of it, the previous one might be a laugh -
| I have a couple of nuns for neighbours

Tell them you're going out for the day and would they like to use it while
your'e away, and leave a video camera running? ;-)

Nah, it might turn into a habit

--
geoff

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:21:35 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Owain
writes
"raden" wrote
| Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
| Kiddies might fall in and drown?
| Naah, the last one's a benefit.
| Come to think of it, the previous one might be a laugh -
| I have a couple of nuns for neighbours

Tell them you're going out for the day and would they like to use it while
your'e away, and leave a video camera running? ;-)

Nah, it might turn into a habit

Not bad. I thought we were going to go down the path of blind man
and holy water jokes for a minute. :-)




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:


Nah, it might turn into a habit


Not bad. I thought we were going to go down the path of blind man
and holy water jokes for a minute. :-)

Or to paraphrase the old vampire joke...

Nun1: "Ech! Sister there is a weird looking man peeping at us through
the fence, I think he might be possesed of evil intent"

Nun2: "What shall I do?"

Nun1: "Carfully lean out of the bath, and show him your cross"

Nun2: "Hey geezer! Stop peeping through that friggin fence!"



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:21:35 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Owain
writes
"raden" wrote
| Can't swim in the nude without the neighbours watching?
| Kiddies might fall in and drown?
| Naah, the last one's a benefit.
| Come to think of it, the previous one might be a laugh -
| I have a couple of nuns for neighbours

Tell them you're going out for the day and would they like to use it while
your'e away, and leave a video camera running? ;-)

Nah, it might turn into a habit

Not bad. I thought we were going to go down the path of blind man
and holy water jokes for a minute. :-)

Of course, if it was a Jacuzzi, the bath would be holey.

--
geoff