Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C

In article ,
Simon C wrote:
Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C

After moving, and ensuring hte tank is well supported, reconnect using
plastic push fit connectors and tubing. You may want to totaly replace
the run with plastic tubing since it can go round corners without
fittings, so less resistance to flow. Also consider a seperate pipe from
cold tank to shower so other users of cold water don't make the shower hot.

See screwfix.co.uk for prices of fittings and tubing.

Neil

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Simon C wrote:

Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C

The height above the hot tank is irrelevant - what matters is the level of
the water in the cold tank above the shower head. If you can double this
vertical distance, you should notice the difference.

However, installing a shower pump instead may well be easier.

If you raise the cold tank, you will need to extend:
* the mains feed to the ball valve
* the cold feed to the hot tank
* the vent pipe from the hot tank
* the cold feed to the shower - assuming this has a dedicated cold feed
* the cold feed to any cold taps which are fed from this tank
* the overflow pipe

Is this the original plumbing? Is the tank galvanised steel or plastic? Are
the pipes copper, iron - or even lead?

If - and only if - it's all been replaced recently with metric copper pipes,
and if you're simply raising the tank vertically in the same position, you
might get away with cutting each pipe in a straight part and inserting an
additional length of pipe, joining it together with push-fit connectors. The
inserted pipes could be copper - or you could use plastic pipe such as Hep2O
to give more flexibility.

If you have imperial copper pipe, I doubt whether you can get push fit
connectors, so you'll need to use metric compression joints with imperial
olives (assuming 3/4" pipes joined to 22mm etc.).

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

Never seen Leadlok? ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article 40fdad7b$0$240$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader03.plus.net,
says...
Set Square wrote:

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

Never seen Leadlok? ;-)

I haven't and Google isn't particularly forthcoming.
Can you point me some information please?

"nog" wrote in message
...
In article 40fdad7b$0$240$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader03.plus.net,
says...
Set Square wrote:

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

Never seen Leadlok? ;-)

I haven't and Google isn't particularly forthcoming.
Can you point me some information please?

http://www.bes.ltd.uk

In article 40fe234f_2@mk-nntp-
1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
says...

"nog" wrote in message
...
In article 40fdad7b$0$240$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader03.plus.net,
says...
Set Square wrote:

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

Never seen Leadlok? ;-)

I haven't and Google isn't particularly forthcoming.
Can you point me some information please?

http://www.bes.ltd.uk

Thanks. :-)

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

Set Square wrote:

If it's a metal tank with iron or lead pipes, it ain't a DIY job!

Never seen Leadlok? ;-)


Yes I have, and if it were mine, I would fit a new plastic tank with copper
pipes - and either join them to the lead pipes with Leadlok - or get rid of
the lead altogether.

But that seemed a bit beyond the scope of someone who appeared never to have
done any plumbing.

Maybe I should have said "it ain't a *first time* DIY job" rather than a DIY
job per se.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:


Never seen Leadlok? ;-)



Yes I have, and if it were mine, I would fit a new plastic tank with copper
pipes - and either join them to the lead pipes with Leadlok - or get rid of
the lead altogether.

But that seemed a bit beyond the scope of someone who appeared never to have
done any plumbing.

Fair enough :-) - I did not read the OP carefully enough regarding
plumbing experiance.

Maybe I should have said "it ain't a *first time* DIY job" rather than a DIY
job per se.

Probably true - although I suppose you could count Leadlok as a
variation on "push fit".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Simon C" wrote in message
om...
Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C
In my experience 3 ft will have sod all effect.
To be really noticable it has to be 1 bar = 30ft.

If poss hold the shower head 3ft (or more) lower than its normal position to
get an idea of any gain ... I doubt you'll notice the difference.

"BillV" wrote in
:

In my experience 3 ft will have sod all effect.
To be really noticable it has to be 1 bar = 30ft.

If poss hold the shower head 3ft (or more) lower than its normal
position to get an idea of any gain ... I doubt you'll notice the
difference.


Mine too, BTDT etc

LOadsa work for nowt

mike

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:22:03 +0100, BillV wrote:


"Simon C" wrote in message
om...
Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C
In my experience 3 ft will have sod all effect.
To be really noticable it has to be 1 bar = 30ft.


IME
Evaluation of poor/OK/good pressure and flow showers can vary between
people by a magnitude. Some people (can you beleive it) are satified with
a 7kW electric shower. Others with a gravity fed unit at as little as 0.2
bar. Yet again others expect the experince to be akin to accupucture.
Others wish to be drenched. Some will only be happy with a fire hose.

Typically rasing the tank from 1m to 2m of pressure can make a lot of
difference for some people. Also replacing the hose with wide bore unit
can make a big difference.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Simon C" wrote in message
om...
Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)


The important measurement is the vertical distance between the water level
in the tank, and the shower head. If this is 10ft, you can generally expect
a fantastic shower. If it's less than 3-4ft, it's going to be pretty poor.

So raising the tank by 3ft is likely to yield good results.

Don't be tempted to rig up some sort of temporary arrangement - it only has
to go wrong once to cost you a fortune in flood damage. If you're worried
about soldering, there are "proper" push-fit plumbing systems that you can
use - have a look at screwfix.com

Don't forget, you can ask here if you are worried about any details. And
remember when you're moving the header that water is heavy (1litre = 1Kg),
so the tank must be suitably supported.

Good Luck!

Thanks for all of your answers! I'll definately give the Push fir
connections a go - for those who were interested, it's a metal tank
(very rusty, hence the requirement to do any work on this) with
standard copper pipes going in and out. I repleace the ball cock
assembly and it all fitted OK. I'll get a set of push fit connectors
and fingers crossed for a better shower experience!

Thanks again!

Simon C

"David P" wrote in message ...
"Simon C" wrote in message
om...
Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)


The important measurement is the vertical distance between the water level
in the tank, and the shower head. If this is 10ft, you can generally expect
a fantastic shower. If it's less than 3-4ft, it's going to be pretty poor.

So raising the tank by 3ft is likely to yield good results.

Don't be tempted to rig up some sort of temporary arrangement - it only has
to go wrong once to cost you a fortune in flood damage. If you're worried
about soldering, there are "proper" push-fit plumbing systems that you can
use - have a look at screwfix.com

Don't forget, you can ask here if you are worried about any details. And
remember when you're moving the header that water is heavy (1litre = 1Kg),
so the tank must be suitably supported.

Good Luck!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Simon C wrote:

Thanks for all of your answers! I'll definately give the Push fir
connections a go - for those who were interested, it's a metal tank
(very rusty, hence the requirement to do any work on this) with
standard copper pipes going in and out. I repleace the ball cock
assembly and it all fitted OK. I'll get a set of push fit connectors
and fingers crossed for a better shower experience!

Thanks again!

Simon C

If it's a rusty metal tank you should certainly consider replacing it with a
new plastic one rather than just moving the metal one.

As I said in an earlier post, copper pipe may be imperial size or metric
size, depending on when it was installed. I don't recall ever having seen
any push-fit connectors in imperial sizes. Doubtless someone will reply if
they *are* available! [In any event, your new pipes will be metric - so
you'd need fittings which were imperial one end and metric the other].
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On 21 Jul 2004 00:25:02 -0700, Simon C wrote:

it's a metal tank (very rusty, hence the requirement to do any work
on this) with standard copper pipes going in and out.

Hum, I wonder how much movement it will tolerate before turning into a
colander? Plastic tanks are cheap amd *much* lighter to move about
when empty. But do remember that water is heavy and that your new tank
support needs to be substantial, a plastic tanks needs support over
it's entire base area as well unlike a metal one.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Simon C wrote:

Hi there...

Please bear with me! I'm in a 1920's house with pretty old gravity fed
plumbing installed. The shower is OK, but not great. It was sugested
to me that I move the cold water to higher up in the loft to improve
the flow to the shower (it's not an electric shower, just a mixer
type). The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher than the hot water
tank. Will raising it another 3ft or so help any?

Would I be able to extend the pipes going in and waste out by using
something like tap extention flexible pipes? I have not soldered any
pipes together and not sure if I should takle something like that!

Oh, as if you didn't already guess, money is tight! (when isnt' it!?)

TIA

Simon C
Have you thought about dumping the tanks, and fitting a double return
value [which costs a couple of quid] and running the whole system off
mains pressure.

Going back to your message: "The cold tank is already about 4 ft higher
than the hot water tank", do you mean 'hot water tank', I'm no expert
but in a normal setup you have:
- A large cold water tank which feeds the cold water taps + the hot
water cylinder, which in turn feeds the hot water taps.
- A smaller tank which is just used to top up your boiler/central
heating system and never comes out of a tap.

For a quick test. If the temperature of the shower is much better when
held 1" from the bottom of the bath, than it is when held 4' in the air
then yep that sounds like raising the 'cold' water tank would achieve
your aims.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, James
wrote:

Have you thought about dumping the tanks, and fitting a double return
value [which costs a couple of quid] and running the whole system off
mains pressure.

No? Good - *don't * do it!!

Your hot cylinder isn't designed to withstand mains pressure - and doesn't
have all the additional safety features which mains-pressure hot water
systems need.

Mains pressure is fine - provided your mains supply can provide adequate
flow - but you need the right kit, and it has to be installed by someone
with the right qualifications.
--
Cheers,
Set Square