Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested
all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Thanks! |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"Charles" wrote in message ... I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Thanks! Is there a memory backup battery in it? Is it good? |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Nov 7, 7:18*pm, "Charles" wrote:
I fired it up today and no joy. * Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. *Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? *I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. *Any suggestions? Thanks! Bad switch contacts, did you check for any voltages after the pwer switch? |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:18:39 -0500, "Charles"
wrote: I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Power wiring, switch contacts, flakey fuse, corroded PCB contacts, etc. However, it could also be bad power supply capacitors, which is my best guess. Use an ESR tester to check the caps or just replace them. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote:
I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Thanks! Assume the first thing you did was test it in another mainframe? Or at least moved it to another socket in the same mainframe? I also assume that you have something else in the mainframe so you can rule out a bad power switch or corroded fuse holder or any other common stuff. The FG507 post-dates my tenure with TM500 engineering. It's been 35 years and I'm OLD...so much of what I'm about to say may be correct...maybe...YMMV. The mainframe supplies unregulated DC. ~7V intended to be regulated to +5. +/- 20ish intended to be regulated to +/-15V or so. Because of the wide line voltage specs and cross loading, it's difficult to get more than +/-15V regulated under worst case conditions. There are two floating transformer windings per hole. You can get +/-20VDC if you're careful with the rectifier and regulator design. Each hole has one NPN and one PNP transistor allocated to it. These are often used as pass transistors for power supply regulation. I believe that all TM500 stuff of this era had linear regulated power supplies. A common failure is that the mainframe pass transistors come unsoldered at the backplane board and become intermittent. Some plugins run them hot, so the transistors themselves can become intermittent. FG507 schematic doesn't seem to be available, but almost any TM500 signal generator from that era will have a similar power supply topology. The tm503 manual has all the mainframe parts and pinouts. |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"mike" wrote in message ... On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote: I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Thanks! Thanks Mike. I tried it in every position in the mainframe. Also, other plug-ins work. I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator. Darn, I really liked the FG507. |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on
until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator. " You are SO looking at bad capacitors. If it stops working when you are done and you need it again, put it in the oven on keepwarm. Or change the capacitors of course. J |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
|
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
Do I have to actually fix that particular model to have enough experience to know that tings that have trouble starting up usually have bad caps ?
J |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:18:20 -0500 "Charles"
wrote in Message id: : "mike" wrote in message ... On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote: I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Thanks! Thanks Mike. I tried it in every position in the mainframe. Also, other plug-ins work. I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator. Darn, I really liked the FG507. Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual. http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/p....php?sku=82316 You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW wrote:
Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual. http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/p....php?sku=82316 You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group. Also, eBay for $14.50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:32:10 -0800 Jeff Liebermann
wrote in Message id: : On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW wrote: Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual. http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/p....php?sku=82316 You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group. Also, eBay for $14.50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761 Huh. Yet Dave's webpage doesn't list it (I checked before posting the above.) http://artekmanuals.com/manuals I'd email him and save a few bucks, that way you can also download - no waiting for a CD. |
#13
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW wrote: Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual. http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/p....php?sku=82316 You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group. Also, eBay for $14.50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Also, Qservice has it for download as a PDF for $7.49 http://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=269 Good quality scans. |
#14
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"Charles" wrote in message ... I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Lots of helpful replies here, but looking for alternatives, I found this: http://www.neobits.com/instek_sfg_21...FRRbnAodpnoAgQ No way that I am going to pay for a schematic/service manual (from a questionable source) and pay for an adaptor to power the FG507 so I can work on it when the link above promises so much more. Repair is not always the best option. Recycling and replacement is sometimes better. Sad. Really liked the FG507. Thanks! |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On 11/17/2012 4:13 PM, Charles wrote:
"Charles" wrote in message ... I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs. Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work. Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on it now. Any suggestions? Lots of helpful replies here, but looking for alternatives, I found this: http://www.neobits.com/instek_sfg_21...FRRbnAodpnoAgQ A function generator is a jack of all trades, master of none. Choosing one is the art of minimizing the problems caused by the crappy waveforms in your specific application. Without knowing which waveforms and functions are important to you and what imperfections you can tolerate, there's not much help anyone can provide. The specs in large print on the datasheet usually don't tell the whole story. It's a lot like buying an automobile and expecting to actually get 40mpg. No way that I am going to pay for a schematic/service manual (from a questionable source) and pay for an adaptor to power the FG507 so I can work on it when the link above promises so much more. Repair is not always the best option. Recycling and replacement is sometimes better. Sad. Really liked the FG507. Thanks! If you're gonna scrap it, send it to me. I'll fix it and add it to my collection of Tektronix Relics. |
#16
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:13:18 -0500, "Charles"
wrote: Repair is not always the best option. Recycling and replacement is sometimes better. Sad. Really liked the FG507. You're willing to pay $400 for a replacement function generator, but not $15 for a schematic to repair the one you currently own. It's easy enough to calculate the relative cost of repair to replace. My guess(tm) is that it would take me about 2 hrs and $20 in parts to replace all the dip tantalum capacitors in the FG507. A little Googling will show that old tantalums are a major problem in Tek products. I value my spare time at $35/hr. That's $90 cost to repair the FG507 without the risk of buying a manual from a questionable source. Working blind does offer a challenge, but I suspect that's not why you don't want to spend the $15. I would recommend a manual as it's often difficult to read the markings and color codes on old tantalums. Good luck. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#17
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:13:18 -0500, "Charles" wrote: Repair is not always the best option. Recycling and replacement is sometimes better. Sad. Really liked the FG507. You're willing to pay $400 for a replacement function generator, but not $15 for a schematic to repair the one you currently own. It's easy enough to calculate the relative cost of repair to replace. My guess(tm) is that it would take me about 2 hrs and $20 in parts to replace all the dip tantalum capacitors in the FG507. A little Googling will show that old tantalums are a major problem in Tek products. I value my spare time at $35/hr. That's $90 cost to repair the FG507 without the risk of buying a manual from a questionable source. Working blind does offer a challenge, but I suspect that's not why you don't want to spend the $15. I would recommend a manual as it's often difficult to read the markings and color codes on old tantalums. Good luck. -- I found the manual at Qservice for $8 US. Operator and service manual. Two gamma extenders would take will take about an hour to build up and you will have them for the future. Or just remove the TM50x cover and you can reach most anything. I doubt it is a shorted tantalum cap. More likely a switch or pot that needs cleaning. But I suspect the OP does not possess either the skill or desire to dig into this. So he could just put the TM and the FG up on ebay and help cover the cost of the non-repairable Chinese function generator. Also, good luck. |
#18
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On 11/18/2012 10:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:13:18 -0500, "Charles" wrote: Repair is not always the best option. Recycling and replacement is sometimes better. Sad. Really liked the FG507. You're willing to pay $400 for a replacement function generator, but not $15 for a schematic to repair the one you currently own. It's easy enough to calculate the relative cost of repair to replace. My guess(tm) is that it would take me about 2 hrs and $20 in parts to replace all the dip tantalum capacitors in the FG507. A little Googling will show that old tantalums are a major problem in Tek products. I value my spare time at $35/hr. That's $90 cost to repair the FG507 without the risk of buying a manual from a questionable source. Working blind does offer a challenge, but I suspect that's not why you don't want to spend the $15. I would recommend a manual as it's often difficult to read the markings and color codes on old tantalums. Good luck. There are many well-meaning people who probably weren't even born when the FG507 was designed. The current plague of bulging/open computer/monitor caps simply does not apply to that era. Yep, caps did fail, but ripping out all the caps probably won't fix anything intermittent from that era. A little history. In the '70's, Tek used a LOT of teardrop tantalum caps. They were very aware of the failure mode. The design guideline for tantalums was changed to require significant voltage derating and an equivalent resistance in series of something like 3 Ohms per volt...from memory... That all but eliminated use of teardrop tantalum caps in new designs by engineers who actually followed the guidelines. But there were a zillion of them still in the field. Tantalum caps have two modes. They work fine, or they're shorted. That's not leaky, or a little bit shorted. They're DEAD shorted. Once shorted, they never come back. I've never seen an intermittent tantalum cap. The short resistance is so low that it's difficult to get them hot... but if you do have a HIGH current source, you can cause them to explode. That's not an intermittent process either. You can check most tantalum caps by poking an ohm-meter at 'em in circuit. IF they're shorted, you can tell. It's rare to have a circuit resistance low enough to mask the shorted tantalum cap. |
#19
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
"mike" wrote in message ... Big snip. I am pretty sure it's a gain problem perhaps related to a low supply voltage. Once it started, it ran fine for days. When gain is on the hairy edge, oscillators get iffy. They have trouble starting. Nice people here, all trying to be helpful and I appreciate that. Thanks Mike and thanks to all of you. |
#20
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On 11/18/2012 2:19 PM, Charles wrote:
"mike" wrote in message ... Big snip. I am pretty sure it's a gain problem perhaps related to a low supply voltage. Once it started, it ran fine for days. When gain is on the hairy edge, oscillators get iffy. They have trouble starting. I've never seen the schematic, but I have done design reviews on the FG501/2/3/4. It's extremely likely that the oscillator is a cap with switched current sources and threshold detectors determining the amplitude of the triangle. "Trouble starting" is likely not relevant. You need to consult someone locally who knows how 1970's function generators work...or do some googling. Well-meaning random inputs from net denizens who don't have any relevant experience is often counter-productive. The FG507 topology is likely to be very similar to this: http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/tek/fg503 with some sweep stuff bolted on. The sweep is irrelevant except that it's possible for one of the sweep tentacles to disable an otherwise working triangle generator. The components used to implement the circuit vary over time, but the topology hasn't changed in decades. This one is probably closer to the FG507 and worth downloading, but understand the FG503 before you delve into the complexity of the FG504. There's some stuff in the 504 that is counter-intuitive and put there to patch up some fundamental design flaws without a complete redesign. http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/tek/fg504 Nice people here, all trying to be helpful and I appreciate that. Thanks Mike and thanks to all of you. |
#21
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:02:27 -0800, mike wrote:
Yep, caps did fail, but ripping out all the caps probably won't fix anything intermittent from that era. It worked nicely on a Tek 465 scope and a Wavetek 3000b service monitor. See below. Tantalum caps have two modes. They work fine, or they're shorted. That's not leaky, or a little bit shorted. They're DEAD shorted. Once shorted, they never come back. I've never seen an intermittent tantalum cap. The short resistance is so low that it's difficult to get them hot... but if you do have a HIGH current source, you can cause them to explode. That's not an intermittent process either. I've seen a third mode with tantalums on power supply lines. They act like a short when cold causing any current limiting or foldback circuit to shut down the power supply. However, if you apply voltage long enough (usually about 10-20 seconds), the cap will recover causing the circuit to recover. I learned this the hard way after designing far too many 10uf 25v tantalums (mostly Murata) into marine radios running on 12V battery power. However, it took 20-30 years for the problems to appear. You can check most tantalum caps by poking an ohm-meter at 'em in circuit. IF they're shorted, you can tell. It's rare to have a circuit resistance low enough to mask the shorted tantalum cap. If I can get the power supply to cooperate, I've have really good luck with a borrowed thermal imager, an optical IR thermometer, and/or a thermocouple thermometer. The thermocouple probe works best as I can walk it around the PCB rather quickly. It doesn't take long for the caps to get warm. When they burn up, it's rather impressive. It starts with a dull red glow, gets brighter, and eventually hits incandescence. It also belches copious amounts of toxic smoke. One of the early IBM PC clones had tantalums for bypass caps. One was in backwards. The customers called and asked "My computer is on fire. What should I do?" I answered "Turn it off". I hear the distinctive click of the IBM PC style on/off switch over the phone. From the description and details provided by the original poster, there's not much more that can be deduced without additional measurements. If something is holding down the (linear?) power supply, it would be interesting to see what the power supply is doing. A DVM on the power supply lines, or a watt meter on the AC input, will offer some indication of what it's doing. Note that an FG507 recently sold for $80. http://www.liveauctionworld.com/TEK-FG507-GENERATOR_i11032006 The most economical approach would be to find another at about this price. Then compare voltages and waveforms between the two units to fix the original. If it's that important an instrument, a spare would be a good idea. It also avoids having to spend $8 or $15 on a manual. Incidentally, the FG-507 originally sold for about $2,220. http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/Tektronix/Tektronix_-_TM-5000_Series/Tek_FG5010_short_form.pdf -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#22
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Tektronix FG507
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:01:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: (...) Also, you may need a TM502a mainframe schematic if you suspect the power supply to be at fault. http://www.ebay.com/itm/390216672603 $7.50 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Tektronix connector | Electronics Repair | |||
Tektronix 465m vs 465 | Electronics Repair | |||
Tektronix TDS210 | Electronics Repair | |||
Tektronix TDS350 PSU | Electronics Repair | |||
Tektronix 442 pot 20k | Electronics Repair |