I'm quite pleased with myself today. We have a 1911 Sunshine tractor ( Very
rare! only one other in existance as far as I know) in the shop and I have
been working on it for a few weeks now. It had a crack in the engine water
jacket and the carburettor flooded all over the place. The float was made of
cork and was completely stuffed. I made a new one from a large thermos flask
top and sealled it with epoxy, then made a new needle and seat. I finished
that last week and then started on the crack repair. Put a magnaflux on it
and found that the crack was about 125 mm long. I drilled the ends of it
then cut it open with a small disk in a Dremel ( actually a lot of disks,
they are pretty fragile) then bogged it up with a Epoxy steel putty.
I had to remove the water pump to get at the crack . It drives the magnito
as well. Despite my marking everything, somewhere the timing got lost. I
spent this morning figureing out where it all should go. It started on the
second crank!
We ran it for a bout half an hour without leaks or flooding.
The next task is to get the second carburettor sorted out so it can run on
kereosene as well. I can't find a throttle on the carbby so there must be
something I'm missing.
Anybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

On Dec 21, 1:22*am, "Grumpy" wrote:
*I'm quite pleased with myself today. We have a 1911 Sunshine tractor ( Very
rare! only one other in existance as far as I know) in the shop and I have
been working on it for a few weeks now. It had a crack in the engine water
jacket and the carburettor flooded all over the place. The float was made of
cork and was completely stuffed. I made a new one from a large thermos flask
top and sealled it with epoxy, then made a new needle and seat. I finished
that last week and then started on the crack repair. Put a magnaflux on it
and found that the crack was about 125 mm long. I drilled the ends of it
then cut it open with a small disk in a Dremel ( actually a lot of disks,
they are pretty fragile) then bogged it up with a Epoxy steel putty.
*I had to remove the water pump to get at the crack . It drives the magnito
as well. Despite my marking everything, somewhere the *timing got lost. I
spent this morning figureing out where it all should go. It started on the
second crank!
*We ran it for a bout half an hour without leaks or flooding.
*The next task is to get the second carburettor sorted out so it can run on
kereosene as well. I can't find a throttle on the carbby so there must be
something I'm missing.
*Anybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Would that be an eairler version of the engine used to run the
hydraulics on WWII aircraft landing gear? Also Allis Chalmers used
it on their model G.
IIRC it was the "Continental Red Ball"

http://users.cin.net/~milgil/CNC_xmas.jpg
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Santa_checkup.jpg

--

ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Gil© ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª

cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

LLoyd

"William Wixon" fired this volley in
:

lloyd, i think that's what he said, i would assume "large thermos
flask top" = cork.


One could assume that, I guess, but I haven't seen one of those made from
cork in about three decades. Most are polyethylene. Maybe it was an OLD
thermos top.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

LLoyd


wow grumpy, bravo, congratulations and good luck! post some pics somewhere
so we all can see.
lloyd, i think that's what he said, i would assume "large thermos flask top"
= cork.

b.w.

Have you asked at:

http://www.smokstak.com

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Grumpy wrote:

snip

The next task is to get the second carburettor sorted out so it can run on
kereosene as well. I can't find a throttle on the carbby so there must be
something I'm missing.
Anybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.
Old style cork floats were sealed with Shellac. Shellac melts in Ethanol, so
isn't any good in modern gasoline, but should be fine in straight Kerosene.
I have made a few carb floats and tank sender floats out of brass sheet
soldered together.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

"Stupendous Man" fired this volley in news:7p9io4F3ucU1
@mid.individual.net:

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.

Probably not a lot more than an equivalent film thickness of shellac.
Epoxies can be thinned with solvents before curing, just as can shellac, so
penetration and pore-filling aren't any more of an issue with epoxies than
with the bug juice.

LLoyd

Grumpy wrote:
I'm quite pleased with myself today. We have a 1911 Sunshine tractor ( Very
rare! only one other in existance as far as I know) in the shop and I have
been working on it for a few weeks now. It had a crack in the engine water
jacket and the carburettor flooded all over the place. The float was made of
cork and was completely stuffed. I made a new one from a large thermos flask
top and sealled it with epoxy, then made a new needle and seat. I finished
that last week and then started on the crack repair. Put a magnaflux on it
and found that the crack was about 125 mm long. I drilled the ends of it
then cut it open with a small disk in a Dremel ( actually a lot of disks,
they are pretty fragile) then bogged it up with a Epoxy steel putty.
I had to remove the water pump to get at the crack . It drives the magnito
as well. Despite my marking everything, somewhere the timing got lost. I
spent this morning figureing out where it all should go. It started on the
second crank!
We ran it for a bout half an hour without leaks or flooding.
The next task is to get the second carburettor sorted out so it can run on
kereosene as well. I can't find a throttle on the carbby so there must be
something I'm missing.

Dual fuel engines, ie gas and kero usually have a hot spot somewhere to
vapourise the kero.
You start on gas then when the exhaust manifiold hot spot is hot enough,
you switch to kero.
Look to trace the inlet flow path to see where the hot spot might be.
Had a continental engine from Chicago? 1917 , the block casting looked
as if it had been lost wax moulded. Just so clean and accurate.
That was on gas only in a bull nose Morris.
Usually the kero carb fed the kero /air mixturethrough the same butter
fly valve as the gas carb.

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:37:37 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Stupendous Man" fired this volley in news:7p9io4F3ucU1
@mid.individual.net:

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.

Probably not a lot more than an equivalent film thickness of shellac.
Epoxies can be thinned with solvents before curing, just as can shellac,
so penetration and pore-filling aren't any more of an issue with epoxies
than with the bug juice.

For that matter, epoxy resins can be had with pretty low viscosity --
epoxy glues are thick because they have filler added.

Supposedly isopropyl alcohol is 100% compatible with epoxy as a thinner;
I've certainly had good success with using 99% isopropyl to thin garden-
variety epoxy glue for fuel-proofing model airplane engine compartments.
You're supposed to not use anything less than 99% pure, though.

Epoxy glue + isopropyl will flash off to a very thin layer that will then
harden quite nicely if you got your initial proportions right; I wouldn't
hesitate to use it to coat cork. I would want to check it against all
possible fuels, although I can't imagine it not doing well with cork.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:37:37 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Stupendous Man" fired this volley in news:7p9io4F3ucU1
@mid.individual.net:

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.

Probably not a lot more than an equivalent film thickness of shellac.
Epoxies can be thinned with solvents before curing, just as can shellac,
so penetration and pore-filling aren't any more of an issue with epoxies
than with the bug juice.

For that matter, epoxy resins can be had with pretty low viscosity --
epoxy glues are thick because they have filler added.

Small nit: While it's true there are lots of filled epoxies on the consumer
market, the viscosity of many industrial types of epoxy has to do with the
chemistry of the epoxy and catalyst themselves. I have some 100% solids pure
epoxy that's somewhat thicker than petroleum jelly that I use for
lubricating and then bonding fishing-rod grips to the blanks. It's an
industrial product.

Epoxy is often anti-thixotropic; it flows when it just sits there (I say it
"drools"), but it gets stiffer when you brush it. That should make it good
for filling gaps and it can be; however, its capillary action (wicking)
often is poor, so it doesn't soak into porous surfaces as well as its
viscosity would suggest.

Watch out adding thinners to epoxy. The volatiles have to go somewhere, and
they come from somewhere, so they can leave a porous material behind, or
they can become trapped in the epoxy and degrade it over time. 10% is the
rule-of-thumb maximum for bonding or laminating. Much less for casting or
thick applications.

(This information comes from several of the large suppliers, who I once
interviewed for a 16-page article on adhesive assembly in metalworking.)

--
Ed Huntress


Supposedly isopropyl alcohol is 100% compatible with epoxy as a thinner;
I've certainly had good success with using 99% isopropyl to thin garden-
variety epoxy glue for fuel-proofing model airplane engine compartments.
You're supposed to not use anything less than 99% pure, though.

Epoxy glue + isopropyl will flash off to a very thin layer that will then
harden quite nicely if you got your initial proportions right; I wouldn't
hesitate to use it to coat cork. I would want to check it against all
possible fuels, although I can't imagine it not doing well with cork.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:54:01 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:37:37 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Stupendous Man" fired this volley in
news:7p9io4F3ucU1 @mid.individual.net:

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.

Probably not a lot more than an equivalent film thickness of shellac.
Epoxies can be thinned with solvents before curing, just as can
shellac, so penetration and pore-filling aren't any more of an issue
with epoxies than with the bug juice.

For that matter, epoxy resins can be had with pretty low viscosity --
epoxy glues are thick because they have filler added.

Small nit: While it's true there are lots of filled epoxies on the
consumer market, the viscosity of many industrial types of epoxy has to
do with the chemistry of the epoxy and catalyst themselves. I have some
100% solids pure epoxy that's somewhat thicker than petroleum jelly that
I use for lubricating and then bonding fishing-rod grips to the blanks.
It's an industrial product.

Huh. I'll have to remember that. OTOH, you _can_ get epoxy laminating
resins that flow pretty well.

Epoxy is often anti-thixotropic; it flows when it just sits there (I say
it "drools"), but it gets stiffer when you brush it. That should make it
good for filling gaps and it can be; however, its capillary action
(wicking) often is poor, so it doesn't soak into porous surfaces as well
as its viscosity would suggest.

Watch out adding thinners to epoxy. The volatiles have to go somewhere,
and they come from somewhere, so they can leave a porous material
behind, or they can become trapped in the epoxy and degrade it over
time. 10% is the rule-of-thumb maximum for bonding or laminating. Much
less for casting or thick applications.

Watch out when adding thinners to anything! I only add thinner when it's
going to have a chance to flash off, i.e. when I'm putting on a thin
layer that's exposed to open air. If the solvent can't evaporate before
the pot life of the stuff is over, then you'll have exactly the problems
that you describe.

Which is why you won't see me suggesting thinner for laminating...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

LLoyd

Yes, it was a cork plug that I made it from. I turned it on the lathe with
the shop vac taped to the tool post to collect the dust, screwed it to
thefloat arm as per the original,then mixed up some 2 part epoxy and dipped
it. The consevation department gave it its blessing so it's pretty
authentic. It looks exactly like the shellac dipped ones but will last a lot
longer.

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

LLoyd


wow grumpy, bravo, congratulations and good luck! post some pics
somewhere so we all can see.
lloyd, i think that's what he said, i would assume "large thermos flask
top" = cork.

b.w.


There is a picture of the tractor at this site
http://museumvictoria.com.au/about/m...adiator-found/
The guy standing next to it is a memeber of the stores staff. He was the
one that found a radiator from the only other onein existance. The radiator
is, as you can see,a peculiar beast. It consists of a bunch of horizontal
tubes fixed into a ring on each end. A radial fan is in the middle and is
driven by a flat belt from the same shaft that runs the water pump and
magnito. Looks strange, but seems to work.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"William Wixon" fired this volley in
:

lloyd, i think that's what he said, i would assume "large thermos
flask top" = cork.


One could assume that, I guess, but I haven't seen one of those made from
cork in about three decades. Most are polyethylene. Maybe it was an OLD
thermos top.

LLoyd

It was a VERY old themos top. I found it in a little suburban hardware
shop. We should move that to the museum as well. They are almost as rare as
the tractor.

"Stupendous Man" wrote in message
...
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.
Old style cork floats were sealed with Shellac. Shellac melts in Ethanol,
so isn't any good in modern gasoline, but should be fine in straight
Kerosene.
I have made a few carb floats and tank sender floats out of brass sheet
soldered together.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

I was told that the original cork float had up to 15 coats of shellac. A
gentleman of vintage years, who still runs a carburettor shop, told me that
his first job every day, when he was an apprentice was to dip a bunch of
cork floats in shellac.
I only used one coat of epoxy so I suspect that the coating thickness would
be sinilar.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:37:37 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Stupendous Man" fired this volley in news:7p9io4F3ucU1
@mid.individual.net:

I haven't tried epoxy, it must add some weight.

Probably not a lot more than an equivalent film thickness of shellac.
Epoxies can be thinned with solvents before curing, just as can shellac,
so penetration and pore-filling aren't any more of an issue with epoxies
than with the bug juice.

For that matter, epoxy resins can be had with pretty low viscosity --
epoxy glues are thick because they have filler added.

Small nit: While it's true there are lots of filled epoxies on the
consumer market, the viscosity of many industrial types of epoxy has to do
with the chemistry of the epoxy and catalyst themselves. I have some 100%
solids pure epoxy that's somewhat thicker than petroleum jelly that I use
for lubricating and then bonding fishing-rod grips to the blanks. It's an
industrial product.

Epoxy is often anti-thixotropic; it flows when it just sits there (I say
it "drools"), but it gets stiffer when you brush it. That should make it
good for filling gaps and it can be; however, its capillary action
(wicking) often is poor, so it doesn't soak into porous surfaces as well
as its viscosity would suggest.

Watch out adding thinners to epoxy. The volatiles have to go somewhere,
and they come from somewhere, so they can leave a porous material behind,
or they can become trapped in the epoxy and degrade it over time. 10% is
the rule-of-thumb maximum for bonding or laminating. Much less for casting
or thick applications.

(This information comes from several of the large suppliers, who I once
interviewed for a 16-page article on adhesive assembly in metalworking.)

--
Ed Huntress


Supposedly isopropyl alcohol is 100% compatible with epoxy as a thinner;
I've certainly had good success with using 99% isopropyl to thin garden-
variety epoxy glue for fuel-proofing model airplane engine compartments.
You're supposed to not use anything less than 99% pure, though.

Epoxy glue + isopropyl will flash off to a very thin layer that will then
harden quite nicely if you got your initial proportions right; I wouldn't
hesitate to use it to coat cork. I would want to check it against all
possible fuels, although I can't imagine it not doing well with cork.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Thanks, that is usefull inforation.

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
Have you asked at:

http://www.smokstak.com

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
Not yet, but I will.

"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
Grumpy wrote:
I'm quite pleased with myself today. We have a 1911 Sunshine tractor (
Very rare! only one other in existance as far as I know) in the shop and
I have been working on it for a few weeks now. It had a crack in the
engine water jacket and the carburettor flooded all over the place. The
float was made of cork and was completely stuffed. I made a new one from
a large thermos flask top and sealled it with epoxy, then made a new
needle and seat. I finished that last week and then started on the crack
repair. Put a magnaflux on it and found that the crack was about 125 mm
long. I drilled the ends of it then cut it open with a small disk in a
Dremel ( actually a lot of disks, they are pretty fragile) then bogged it
up with a Epoxy steel putty.
I had to remove the water pump to get at the crack . It drives the
magnito as well. Despite my marking everything, somewhere the timing got
lost. I spent this morning figureing out where it all should go. It
started on the second crank!
We ran it for a bout half an hour without leaks or flooding.
The next task is to get the second carburettor sorted out so it can run
on kereosene as well. I can't find a throttle on the carbby so there must
be something I'm missing.

Dual fuel engines, ie gas and kero usually have a hot spot somewhere to
vapourise the kero.
You start on gas then when the exhaust manifiold hot spot is hot enough,
you switch to kero.
Look to trace the inlet flow path to see where the hot spot might be.
Had a continental engine from Chicago? 1917 , the block casting looked as
if it had been lost wax moulded. Just so clean and accurate.
That was on gas only in a bull nose Morris.
Usually the kero carb fed the kero /air mixturethrough the same butter fly
valve as the gas carb.


This one has two completely seperate carbys, that run in parallel. The Kero
one is at one end of the exhaust/inlet manifold casting, with a sort of
semirotary valve that selects which fuel is used. It also has a closed
position to stop the beast. The magnito ingnition has noshorting switch.

"Grumpy" wrote in message
. au...

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in
news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars,
no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you
couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

LLoyd


wow grumpy, bravo, congratulations and good luck! post some pics
somewhere so we all can see.
lloyd, i think that's what he said, i would assume "large thermos flask
top" = cork.

b.w.


There is a picture of the tractor at this site
http://museumvictoria.com.au/about/m...adiator-found/
The guy standing next to it is a memeber of the stores staff. He was the
one that found a radiator from the only other onein existance. The
radiator is, as you can see,a peculiar beast. It consists of a bunch of
horizontal tubes fixed into a ring on each end. A radial fan is in the
middle and is driven by a flat belt from the same shaft that runs the
water pump and magnito. Looks strange, but seems to work.



Here are some more pictures and some informationon the tractor. Its been
restored pretty well and is in good condition.
We are making some "bolt on" steel bands to go around the wheels so we can
drive it on "action days" without destroying the track.

"Grumpy" wrote in message
. au...



There is a picture of the tractor at this site
http://museumvictoria.com.au/about/m...adiator-found/
The guy standing next to it is a memeber of the stores staff. He was the
one that found a radiator from the only other onein existance. The
radiator is, as you can see,a peculiar beast. It consists of a bunch of
horizontal tubes fixed into a ring on each end. A radial fan is in the
middle and is driven by a flat belt from the same shaft that runs the
water pump and magnito. Looks strange, but seems to work.



Here are some more pictures and some informationon the tractor. Its been
restored pretty well and is in good condition.
We are making some "bolt on" steel bands to go around the wheels so we can
drive it on "action days" without destroying the track.



holy ****! cool! congrats and good luck! thanks for the link to the pic.
i totally didn't expect to see that (i was imagining a much more
conventional looking "tractor"). you go grumpy! sa-weet. rock on!

b.w.

I should have added that the float weight isn't really critical, as long as
you adjust it for proper fuel level. Brass is heavier than cork, but when
its setup right it does the same thing.
I have seen much trouble with 70's Mikuni bike carbs caused by ethanol, they
used that weird foam material that can make crossing Utah a nightmare

"William Wixon" wrote in message
news

"Grumpy" wrote in message
. au...



There is a picture of the tractor at this site
http://museumvictoria.com.au/about/m...adiator-found/
The guy standing next to it is a memeber of the stores staff. He was the
one that found a radiator from the only other onein existance. The
radiator is, as you can see,a peculiar beast. It consists of a bunch of
horizontal tubes fixed into a ring on each end. A radial fan is in the
middle and is driven by a flat belt from the same shaft that runs the
water pump and magnito. Looks strange, but seems to work.



Here are some more pictures and some informationon the tractor. Its been
restored pretty well and is in good condition.
We are making some "bolt on" steel bands to go around the wheels so we
can drive it on "action days" without destroying the track.



holy ****! cool! congrats and good luck! thanks for the link to the
pic. i totally didn't expect to see that (i was imagining a much more
conventional looking "tractor"). you go grumpy! sa-weet. rock on!

b.w.


Thanks for the encouragement!
I spent the previous 35 years as a professional engineer, mostly as chief
engineer or engineering manager for large food & beverage manufacturing
companies. The last 4 years as a volunteer have been a lot more fun. I'm now
doing things myself, that were always done by my staff. I've learned TIG
welding,machining,and a lot of other skills that I only had a theroretical
knowledge of before. Admittedly, I used to hang around the crew and ask a
lot of questions,but "hands on" is a lot better teacher.
We have worked on some pretty unconventional stuff, including a replica of
Henry Ford's Quadricyle, a steam roller, a steam mining drill and anything
else that happens to need restoration.
The next couple of jobs are the restoration and recommissioning of a 190?
two cycle stationary farm engine of about 6 horsepower ( hope to have it
going in a month or two) , and the partial restoration of one of the first
steam traction engines ever built in Australia. The boiler on it is
kackered, but we hope the refurbish the motionworks( steam engine) so it can
be run on compressed air. This will take at least a year, but probably more
as we are mostly volunteers who only work a couple of days a week. (When
things get interesting though, I'm sometimes there all week) We will have to
machine a number of new parts as the originals have disappeared or rusted
beyond repair.
The web site http://www.cliffandbunting.com.au/history.htm will be a help
as it shows a photo of one of the original machines.


So again, thanks for the encouragement, but I'd do it for the fun of it
anyway

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:41:06 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:


Thanks for the encouragement!
I spent the previous 35 years as a professional engineer, mostly as chief
engineer or engineering manager for large food & beverage manufacturing
companies. The last 4 years as a volunteer have been a lot more fun. I'm now
doing things myself, that were always done by my staff. I've learned TIG
welding,machining,and a lot of other skills that I only had a theroretical
knowledge of before. Admittedly, I used to hang around the crew and ask a
lot of questions,but "hands on" is a lot better teacher.
We have worked on some pretty unconventional stuff, including a replica of
Henry Ford's Quadricyle, a steam roller, a steam mining drill and anything
else that happens to need restoration.
The next couple of jobs are the restoration and recommissioning of a 190?
two cycle stationary farm engine of about 6 horsepower ( hope to have it
going in a month or two) , and the partial restoration of one of the first
steam traction engines ever built in Australia. The boiler on it is
kackered, but we hope the refurbish the motionworks( steam engine) so it can
be run on compressed air. This will take at least a year, but probably more
as we are mostly volunteers who only work a couple of days a week. (When
things get interesting though, I'm sometimes there all week) We will have to
machine a number of new parts as the originals have disappeared or rusted
beyond repair.
The web site http://www.cliffandbunting.com.au/history.htm will be a help
as it shows a photo of one of the original machines.


So again, thanks for the encouragement, but I'd do it for the fun of it
anyway


I found, during 30 years of construction supervision, that the best
way to learn how things should be done is to watch the person doing
the work. That, plus knowledge of the theory behind the work and a
liberal application of common sense will quickly develop a grasp for
how things should be done.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing rod
building supplier.

speaking of floats - for what it's worth, I made a new float for one of my
cars (don't remember which one right now -maybe the 51 dodge) when the old
stamped brass one cracked and leaked - I used a foam float from a Holley
carb and cut off the metal hinge and soldered on the hinge from the old
float - that fuel resistant foam stuff is used on a lot of fuel gauge
senders now so it should be easy enough to find - that would be superior to
messing with cork

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing
rod building supplier.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be --
air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing
rod building supplier.

I have remade the float from cork, ( sealed with epoxy)and made a new
needle and seat as well.
It now runs well, after we discovered that the float was touching the side
of the bowl, and causing the flooding.
A little more research, showed that the carburettor that we were using on
petrol was in fact attached to the wrong flange on the intake manifold. This
explained why the other carburettor had no throttle valve. Throtle duties
were taken up by the valve that changed from kero to petrol. At the moment,
the tractor has been taken apart for painting so I don't have anything to do
with it for a while.
Presently, I am restoring a small steam powered water pump. I have managed
to get all the parts apart but have spent a few days drilling out corroded
studs. (some were stripped in the ancient past) Helicoils are very useful
things!
The steam cylinder had been cracked and repaired ( by rivetting a patch on
the outside ) but I intend to sleeve it with a suitable machined piece of
cast iron sewer pipe.

On 4/12/2010 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be
-- air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No
spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing
rod building supplier.




And, for what it's worth, most (all?) epoxies will not stand up to the
solvents in modern gasoline...



--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

"cavelamb" ""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net" wrote in message
m...
On 4/12/2010 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in
news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

ÿAnybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be
-- air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No
spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing
rod building supplier.




And, for what it's worth, most (all?) epoxies will not stand up to the
solvents in modern gasoline...


I checked that out with the epoxy supplier,and they said that it was ok with
the hydrocarbons in the fuel, but they don't know about the additives in
modern fuel. As a result we drain the fuel from the bowl when its not in use
( which is about 95 % of the time)

On Apr 13, 2:29*am, cavelamb ""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net" wrote:
On 4/12/2010 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:





"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.3.70...
cncmillgil fired this volley in news:81d820a5-cba3-4f78-
:

Anybody know anything about early kero carburettors?

Almost all of the 8-10HP Briggs updraft carbs made before 1975 were
designed to run on kerosene. It's about as simple a design as can be
-- air bleed, main jet and needle valve, and nothin' else. No
spraybars, no
pumps, no extra nothin' at all; conventional float/valve combo.

BTW... You ought to re-make that float from cork to keep the original
design intact. Cork seals up just fine with epoxy. Even if you couldn't
find a solid slab of it large enough, you could glue up cork sheets to
the required size.

You could probably get some larger pieces of cork from a custom fishing
rod building supplier.

And, for what it's worth, most (all?) epoxies will not stand up to the
solvents in modern gasoline...

--

Richard Lambhttp://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Went through this looking for patch material for a gas tank filler
neck and you're right. Most hardware store epoxies won't stand up to
continual exposure. Ace carries a product called Seals All that
does. Did the patch with that and some gasket material and it's
stayed fuel tight for years. Silicone RTV is worse than the epoxy,
turns into a jelly material which then gets into the fuel and clogs up
stuff, almost worse than sugar. There is some RTV that's gas-proof,
last I looked it was up in the $100/100 gram area. Have to really
watch what you get these days, most gas(all of it around here) has
alcohol in it. At least MTBE has been phased out.

Stan