http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...ation_accident

On Aug 30, 2:45*pm, Ignoramus17616 ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
17616.invalid wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...nskaya_hydroel...

Thanks Iggy - we will have to wait for the "official" report to know
the true cause, but one phrase in the Wikipedia entry caught my eye,
vis

"and the energy system of the region is near collapse, as the main
goal of its owners is to take out as much profit as possible cutting
down on maintenance, investment, safety, and educational costs."

Now, perhaps if they had been running under their old political
system, this might have been avoided. Or proper government oversight
might have helped by enforcing standards.

Sorta like the GFC, dont ya think.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
On Aug 30, 2:45 pm, Ignoramus17616 ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
17616.invalid wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...nskaya_hydroel...

Thanks Iggy - we will have to wait for the "official" report to know
the true cause, but one phrase in the Wikipedia entry caught my eye,
vis

"and the energy system of the region is near collapse, as the main
goal of its owners is to take out as much profit as possible cutting
down on maintenance, investment, safety, and educational costs."

Now, perhaps if they had been running under their old political
system, this might have been avoided. Or proper government oversight
might have helped by enforcing standards.

Sorta like the GFC, dont ya think.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

The old political system did not have the best track record either.
Chernobyl.

CarlBoyd

On Aug 30, 10:28 pm, CarlBoyd wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
On Aug 30, 2:45 pm, Ignoramus17616 ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
17616.invalid wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...nskaya_hydroel...

Thanks Iggy - we will have to wait for the "official" report to know
the true cause, but one phrase in the Wikipedia entry caught my eye,
vis

"and the energy system of the region is near collapse, as the main
goal of its owners is to take out as much profit as possible cutting
down on maintenance, investment, safety, and educational costs."

Now, perhaps if they had been running under their old political
system, this might have been avoided. Or proper government oversight
might have helped by enforcing standards.

Sorta like the GFC, dont ya think.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

The old political system did not have the best track record either.
Chernobyl.

CarlBoyd

Ouch! - well fielded Carl.
AAndrew VK3NFA.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:52:56 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Aug 30, 10:28 pm, CarlBoyd wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
On Aug 30, 2:45 pm, Ignoramus17616 ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
17616.invalid wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...nskaya_hydroel...

Thanks Iggy - we will have to wait for the "official" report to know
the true cause, but one phrase in the Wikipedia entry caught my eye,
vis

"and the energy system of the region is near collapse, as the main
goal of its owners is to take out as much profit as possible cutting
down on maintenance, investment, safety, and educational costs."

Now, perhaps if they had been running under their old political
system, this might have been avoided. Or proper government oversight
might have helped by enforcing standards.

Sorta like the GFC, dont ya think.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

The old political system did not have the best track record either.
Chernobyl.

CarlBoyd

Ouch! - well fielded Carl.
AAndrew VK3NFA.


TMI II???

G


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:45:53 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus17616
scrawled the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...ation_accident

Ouch! Proof that preventive maintenance is worth its price?

--
If you turn the United States on its side,
everything loose will fall to California.
--Frank Lloyd Wright

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:45:53 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus17616
scrawled the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...ydroelectric_p
ower_station_accident

Ouch! Proof that preventive maintenance is worth its price?

"Crisis Maintenance" is an oxymoron, and is usually practiced by morons
who are wastes of oxygen.

In article ,
Ignoramus17616 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sayano%E2%80%93Shushenskaya_hydroelectric_pow er_station_accident

A Wiki? Man, that was fast. In the Discussion tab, they said that the
Russian-Language version of this Wiki entry has far more information. A
button to enter the Russian Portal is provided.

Very informative, but I suspect that the release of the official report
in September 2009 (if it indeed is released then) will settle anything.
There will be a major blame-deflection war, which will take years to run
its course.

I bet that the turbines never got any periodic inspection for cracks
(which requires complete disassembly of the turbine), at least not
recently, allowing cracks to grow unobserved, and the rotor of Turbine
No 2 finally burst. The other turbines probably also have cracks, but
#2 was the worst. I imagine that all turbines at all hydroelectric
plants will now be inspected.


Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

I bet that the turbines never got any periodic inspection for cracks
(which requires complete disassembly of the turbine),

That would be a strong possibility. I wonder how the facility was
supported, funding wise. Was it government supported, or from the
customers. Neither one would be too dependable.

If they took one turbine off-line, how much would it cost, power-wise,
until it came back up? Evil thought... If the turbines were operating at
a lower level to baby them, and one was taken off-line, could the others
stand the performance level necessary to keep the overall power levels
up? Aluminum plants need lots of juice...

On 2009-08-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus17616 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sayano%E2%80%93Shushenskaya_hydroelectric_pow er_station_accident

A Wiki? Man, that was fast. In the Discussion tab, they said that the
Russian-Language version of this Wiki entry has far more information. A
button to enter the Russian Portal is provided.

Very informative, but I suspect that the release of the official report
in September 2009 (if it indeed is released then) will settle anything.
There will be a major blame-deflection war, which will take years to run
its course.

I bet that the turbines never got any periodic inspection for cracks
(which requires complete disassembly of the turbine), at least not
recently, allowing cracks to grow unobserved, and the rotor of Turbine
No 2 finally burst. The other turbines probably also have cracks, but
#2 was the worst.

That seems like a safe bet.

I imagine that all turbines at all hydroelectric
plants will now be inspected.

I am a little more pessimistic.

i

On Aug 31, 6:17�pm, Ignoramus25738 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25738.invalid wrote:
On 2009-08-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:





In article ,
�Ignoramus17616 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sayano%E2%80%93Shushenskaya_hydroel....

A Wiki? �Man, that was fast. �In the Discussion tab, they said that the
Russian-Language version of this Wiki entry has far more information. �A
button to enter the Russian Portal is provided.

Very informative, but I suspect that the release of the official report
in September 2009 (if it indeed is released then) will settle anything. �
There will be a major blame-deflection war, which will take years to run
its course.

I bet that the turbines never got any periodic inspection for cracks
(which requires complete disassembly of the turbine), at least not
recently, allowing cracks to grow unobserved, and the rotor of Turbine
No 2 finally burst. �The other turbines probably also have cracks, but
#2 was the worst.

That seems like a safe bet.

�I imagine that all turbines at all hydroelectric
plants will now be inspected.

I am a little more pessimistic.

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have been following news of this accident in detail. The press
release from ITAR-TASS had nothing but vague generalities about the
final report (15 Sep 09). If, however, you read ALL the 'body count'
notes, you find some interesting details. The most provocative was,
'human factors could have exacerbated the failure' since the event
developed in a period of over ONE HOUR.
I urge everyone to look at the Brasilian PowerPoint presentation. It
is a good starting point for an international discussion.

Based on our experience with Chernobyl, I feel the cause of the
several failures will be 'human-caused' and even political in nature.
All of the truth is certainly presently in hands of local engineers,
but it is not forthcoming to the rest of the world.

We can be assured thet the facts will eventually come out. "Bent
machinery never lies".
John Kessler

In article
,
jkftl [John Kessler] wrote:

On Aug 31, 6:17?pm, Ignoramus25738 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25738.invalid wrote:
On 2009-08-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:


In article ,
?Ignoramus17616 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sa...nskaya_hydroel...


A Wiki? ?Man, that was fast. ?In the Discussion tab, they said that the
Russian-Language version of this Wiki entry has far more information. ?A
button to enter the Russian Portal is provided.

Very informative, but I suspect that the release of the official report
in September 2009 (if it indeed is released then) will settle anything. ?
There will be a major blame-deflection war, which will take years to run
its course.

I bet that the turbines never got any periodic inspection for cracks
(which requires complete disassembly of the turbine), at least not
recently, allowing cracks to grow unobserved, and the rotor of Turbine
No 2 finally burst. ?The other turbines probably also have cracks, but
#2 was the worst.

That seems like a safe bet.

?I imagine that all turbines at all hydroelectric
plants will now be inspected.

I am a little more pessimistic.

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have been following news of this accident in detail. The press
release from ITAR-TASS had nothing but vague generalities about the
final report (15 Sep 09).

I expected as much. There must be quite the blame-shifting fight going
on.


If, however, you read ALL the 'body count'
notes, you find some interesting details. The most provocative was,
'human factors could have exacerbated the failure' since the event
developed in a period of over ONE HOUR.

One hour. I thought it just up and exploded. They must have had no
idea what was causing the funny noises and vibrations, and were all
crowded around looking and arguing. If they had had any idea, they
would have run for their lives. Or tried to shut turbine #2 down.
Perhaps they tried, and failed.


I urge everyone to look at the Brasilian PowerPoint presentation. It
is a good starting point for an international discussion.

Based on our experience with Chernobyl, I feel the cause of the
several failures will be 'human-caused' and even political in nature.
All of the truth is certainly presently in hands of local engineers,
but it is not forthcoming to the rest of the world.

It will be human caused for sure. I'm betting on neglect and the urge
for production at any cost.


We can be assured thet the facts will eventually come out. "Bent
machinery never lies".

Bent machinery may never lie, but for a billion dollars the people that
bent the machinery will most assuredly lie. We may not live to hear the
truth of this.


Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:57:44 -0400, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following:

In article
,
jkftl [John Kessler] wrote:

It will be human caused for sure. I'm betting on neglect and the urge
for production at any cost.


We can be assured thet the facts will eventually come out. "Bent
machinery never lies".

Bent machinery may never lie, but for a billion dollars the people that
bent the machinery will most assuredly lie. We may not live to hear the
truth of this.

Some day soon, we may find out that it was AGWK(tm) that caused the
horrible mess.

("Anthropogenic Global Warming, Kumbaya" to you anthropomorphic
critters from Rio Linda)

--
The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn
are composed entirely of lost airline luggage.
--Mark Russell