I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

If applying turcite and re-scraping the saddle is not too much, I will
have them do it too. My thinking is that after this, I will have a
lathe that is as good as a new one.

My current question is, how hard is it to take the headstock off this
clausing colchester master, and, no less important, how to align it
again once I get the bed casting back home.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

0.002 isn't much for hobby use. Do the math. For a tool on centerline, how much change
in diameter does a 0.002 drop produce?

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

If applying turcite and re-scraping the saddle is not too much, I will
have them do it too. My thinking is that after this, I will have a
lathe that is as good as a new one.

Don't have an idea on that. Most lathe bed grindings I've read about are 2x the price w/o
any fitting.

My current question is, how hard is it to take the headstock off this
clausing colchester master, and, no less important, how to align it
again once I get the bed casting back home.

Well cutting a rod and measuring it will show if it is off as far as taper. Loosen bolts
tap it in correcting direction and try again.

If you really have 0.002 wear, just use it as is.

Wes


--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

It is no big problem to remove the headstock and reinstall it, but the use
of a test bar is best for alignment. Machining a test bar indicates error
but not direction of error, where a proper predision test bar does. Most
hobbyists will not own one, but after having done this job using both
methods, the use of a test bar is much easier and more accurate. They can be
found on ebay from time to time. I now have a set of them.
Steve

"Ignoramus14986" wrote in message
...
I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

If applying turcite and re-scraping the saddle is not too much, I will
have them do it too. My thinking is that after this, I will have a
lathe that is as good as a new one.

My current question is, how hard is it to take the headstock off this
clausing colchester master, and, no less important, how to align it
again once I get the bed casting back home.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their
inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Steve Lusardi wrote:
It is no big problem to remove the headstock and reinstall it, but
the use of a test bar is best for alignment. Machining a test bar
indicates error but not direction of error, where a proper predision
test bar does. Most hobbyists will not own one, but after having done
this job using both methods, the use of a test bar is much easier and
more accurate. They can be found on ebay from time to time. I now
have a set of them. Steve

A description of your test bars , please ? Precision ground between
centers bar ?
--
Snag
I've learned a couple of ways to test accuracy , but always open for a new
idee !

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

0.002 isn't much for hobby use. Do the math. For a tool on centerline, how much change
in diameter does a 0.002 drop produce?

Unfortunately, the inverted vee that holds the saddle, is also very
worn and so the saddle moves crosswise when I move it along the
lathe. I think that it is because the the vee wear. The difference in
diameter at various points is perhaps 0.2mm.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:15:58 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus14986
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I went to submit feedback for a book yesterday and it kept prompting
me for more info. I then realized that they had a one hundred
character minimum (vs. their old 78 character maximum) and are now
calling these "reviews" instead of feedback.

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh

--
Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous
delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
--e e cummings

Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

If applying turcite and re-scraping the saddle is not too much, I will
have them do it too. My thinking is that after this, I will have a
lathe that is as good as a new one.

I did the same, although I ground the bed myself. I must say, the
result was spectacular, and I can cut stuff effortlessly that would have
been impossible on a lighter lathe in the home shop class like an Atlas.


My current question is, how hard is it to take the headstock off this
clausing colchester master, and, no less important, how to align it
again once I get the bed casting back home.


Generally, all "American pattern" lathes set the headstock on the
tailstock ways. If the regrinder redoes the tailstock ways in the same
sitting, or makes sure the reground ways are perfectly parallel to the
tailstock ones, then there should be no problem. The headstock will
have a scraped inverted Vee that mates to the rear tailstock Vee, and a
scraped flat that mates to the flat. You have to make sure all surfaces
are clean, and the headstock will be perfectly aligned to the ways.
One possible problem could be if different amounts, vertically, are
taken off the tailstock ways, then the two mating surfaces won't sit
flat any more. As long as the flat was taken down more than the Vee,
then it would be trivial to put shims under the flat to get the
headstock to seat over the full surface.

I chose not to grind my tailstock ways for this reason. I have the
technology to scrape it in, but My Sheldon's headstock weighs something
like 700 Lbs, so lifting it off with an engine hoist after every
scraping pass would have worn me into the ground.

Note that the flame hardening process induces a warp into the bed (and
anything else that has been hardened or flame sprayed.) It induced
about a .003" dip in the middle of the bed of my Sheldon 15" lathe,
which has an absolutely MASSIVE bed casting. After regrinding, the
carriage ways are straight to .00025" or so, but that .003" dip is still
there in the tailstock ways. I haven't found that to be even
noticeable, yet.

Jon

Ignoramus14986 wrote:
On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.
0.002 isn't much for hobby use. Do the math. For a tool on centerline, how much change
in diameter does a 0.002 drop produce?

Unfortunately, the inverted vee that holds the saddle, is also very
worn and so the saddle moves crosswise when I move it along the
lathe. I think that it is because the the vee wear. The difference in
diameter at various points is perhaps 0.2mm.

Yup, I think you are probably right. Use a dial test indicator against
a piece of smooth bar, and reverse the saddle with the handwheel. If
the dial shifts, that pretty much confirms the saddle is not riding on
the Vee. It could be the wear has progressed so far the saddle is
hitting the tailstock ways or flat parts beyond the Vee ways. If you
can spot where that interference is, you can file something down to get
clearance, and let the carriage ride the Vee again. If the carriage is
not riding on some surface other than the ways, then it has gotten worn
into a funnel shape, rather than a mirror image of the ways. This can
be scraped fairly easily, or recast in Moglice.

If you are going to pull the lathe apart, you can use some spotting dye
to mark where the high spots are and see how poor the contact area is on
the underside of the carriage.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.
Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.



Yeah, it has gone downhill, both the eBay side and the customers. I
think the current economic climate has really shut down many of the
buyers that were there four or five years ago.

Not buying anything new? Can you REALLY resist?

Jon

On 2008-09-17, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:15:58 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus14986
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I went to submit feedback for a book yesterday and it kept prompting
me for more info. I then realized that they had a one hundred
character minimum (vs. their old 78 character maximum) and are now
calling these "reviews" instead of feedback.

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh


I think that eBay is digging its own grave, by trying to become what
it could never be, and in the process, losing what it always has been
good at.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Terry Coombs wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:
It is no big problem to remove the headstock and reinstall it, but
the use of a test bar is best for alignment. Machining a test bar
indicates error but not direction of error, where a proper predision
test bar does. Most hobbyists will not own one, but after having done
this job using both methods, the use of a test bar is much easier and
more accurate. They can be found on ebay from time to time. I now
have a set of them. Steve

A description of your test bars , please ? Precision ground between
centers bar ?
Really, a piece of hardened and ground shafting (like Thompson glide
rails) works very well with the types of indicators the typical home
shop would have. There is a tiny bit of sag due to weight, but it isn't
real bad. The indicator with the lightest touch is best to avoid
deflecting the shaft. (Oh, you have to verify the straightness of the
shaft with indicator and surface plate, first. You can't assume any
shaft is straight.)

Jon

On 2008-09-17, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

If applying turcite and re-scraping the saddle is not too much, I will
have them do it too. My thinking is that after this, I will have a
lathe that is as good as a new one.

I did the same, although I ground the bed myself. I must say, the
result was spectacular, and I can cut stuff effortlessly that would have
been impossible on a lighter lathe in the home shop class like an Atlas.

Grinding aside, how much time (hours) did it take you?

I do believe that aside from bed wear, there are no big issues with
this lathe.

Also, I think that I should avoid grinding the tailstock ways, and
grind only the sddle ways. The tailstock ways, look "like new" across
the whole lathe.

My thinking is that, this way, I will have an easy reference based on
good condition ways whose elevation was not changed by grinding.



My current question is, how hard is it to take the headstock off this
clausing colchester master, and, no less important, how to align it
again once I get the bed casting back home.


Generally, all "American pattern" lathes set the headstock on the
tailstock ways. If the regrinder redoes the tailstock ways in the
same sitting, or makes sure the reground ways are perfectly parallel
to the tailstock ones, then there should be no problem. The
headstock will have a scraped inverted Vee that mates to the rear
tailstock Vee, and a scraped flat that mates to the flat.

Makes it very simple, then, all I have to do is clean and set it where
it was.

You have
to make sure all surfaces are clean, and the headstock will be
perfectly aligned to the ways. One possible problem could be if
different amounts, vertically, are taken off the tailstock ways,
then the two mating surfaces won't sit flat any more. As long as
the flat was taken down more than the Vee, then it would be trivial
to put shims under the flat to get the headstock to seat over the
full surface.

I chose not to grind my tailstock ways for this reason.

And I think that I will not grind mine either.

I have the technology to scrape it in, but My Sheldon's headstock
weighs something like 700 Lbs, so lifting it off with an engine
hoist after every scraping pass would have worn me into the ground.

Note that the flame hardening process induces a warp into the bed (and
anything else that has been hardened or flame sprayed.) It induced
about a .003" dip in the middle of the bed of my Sheldon 15" lathe,
which has an absolutely MASSIVE bed casting. After regrinding, the
carriage ways are straight to .00025" or so, but that .003" dip is still
there in the tailstock ways. I haven't found that to be even
noticeable, yet.

That's a good point. Anyway, my lathe bed is induction hardened. Don't
know if that is any better, wrt warping of the bed.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Setting up a lathe is not high tech. You must be careful, keep everything
spotlessly clean and make multiple measurements with every step. Regrinding
the bed of a lathe rarely produces increased accuracy, but what it does do
is allow tight carraige adjustments which reduces chatter and adds overall
machine stiffness. This increases consistancy making every step more
repeatable. A worn out, loose lathe is capable of accuracy, but takes a lot
of patience and experience to do that. When you service a lathe bed, every
surface on the bed should be remachined to original specs. Any attempt to do
otherwise is a waste of money. For those folks that have never done this,
let me assure you that lathe beds look massive and enormously stiff, but
they are not. They can and do bend and twist quite easily. That is why the
bed leveling operation is so critical. Please do not misunderstand that
statement, a level lathe is NOT important. They are quite successfully
installed on ships. What is important, is bed straightness and reference to
a water level is nothing more that a common base line reference. All lathe
beds will twist with the weight of the carraige simply sliding across them.
A lathe carraige is not balanced. It is much heavier on the apron side and
when moved to the center between bed supports, will exert a twist as much as
..004" worst case. Contrary to popular opinion, this will not cause an
observable change to the dimensions of the cut because the position change
of the tool rotates about the bed center. This is the reason a worn bed does
not cause inaccuracy.

Head alignment does effect the lathe's accuracy. It is critical, so getting
the spindle line parallel to the lathe bed is the second step in setting up
a lathe. That is why a precision test bar is so important, because it easily
shows these position errors. Every spindle comes with a precisionly ground
inside cone. Typically it is a morse taper and the test bar seats there and
provides a spindle extension on which a simple dial indicator is placed. The
top of the bar has a ground flat which is positioned during testing,
parallel to the bed. Observed deviation is vertical head misalignment. When
the indicator is positioned 90 degrees away at the horizontal center any
deviation along the bar's length indicates horizontal deviation. This
deviation can be compensated with shims under the headstock.

These statements are verifyable with two tools, a precision machine level
and a test bar and if you don't have access to them, get access or buy them.
These are necessary to install a lathe, let alone repair one.
Steve

Ignoramus19342 wrote:

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh


I think that eBay is digging its own grave, by trying to become what
it could never be, and in the process, losing what it always has been
good at.


eBay could go back 5 or so years in time and be a fairly decent company again.

I don't care for ebay from the buyers side. Hiding bidding id's, that just turned me off
100%.

Wes

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus19342 wrote:

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh


I think that eBay is digging its own grave, by trying to become what
it could never be, and in the process, losing what it always has been
good at.


eBay could go back 5 or so years in time and be a fairly decent company again.


Yes, indeed, everything that they have done, lately, is for their
benefit and not for their users'.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Steve Lusardi" wrote:

For those folks that have never done this,
let me assure you that lathe beds look massive and enormously stiff, but
they are not. They can and do bend and twist quite easily. That is why the
bed leveling operation is so critical. Please do not misunderstand that
statement, a level lathe is NOT important. They are quite successfully
installed on ships. What is important, is bed straightness and reference to
a water level is nothing more that a common base line reference.

The tool room guy came to asking if I'd take a look at his 22 x 120" lathe. He was
getting 0.001" taper per inch after it was moved from one place in the plant to another.

A bit of time with some precision levels resting on 123 blocks to clear parts of the bed
and tweeking the 10 leveling jacks got the man back in to happy land.

As far as level, on land, level across, level fore and aft. I think the levels I used
were 0.0005" over 12" iirc. Scraped bottoms on them. Must have spent a half hour getting
both to agree with each other.

Wes

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:12:23 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus19342
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:15:58 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus14986
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I went to submit feedback for a book yesterday and it kept prompting
me for more info. I then realized that they had a one hundred
character minimum (vs. their old 78 character maximum) and are now
calling these "reviews" instead of feedback.

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh


I think that eBay is digging its own grave, by trying to become what
it could never be, and in the process, losing what it always has been
good at.

PRECISELY! And it's all driven by greed at the top. They'll get what
they deserve sometime soon, and we'll all suffer for it.

I've found all sorts of -outrageous- bargains there for 8 years now,
my first being in November of 1999, especially used books. Lots of 40
books for $24 delivered is just some kind of wonderful, Maynard.


--
Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous
delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
--e e cummings

Ignoramus14986 wrote:
On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I was quoted about 400-500 dollars if I bring in my lathe bed, to have
it reground. The bed is relatively worn (carriage drops about 0.002 inch
near headstock), and the rest of the lathe is not.

0.002 isn't much for hobby use. Do the math. For a tool on centerline, how much change
in diameter does a 0.002 drop produce?

Unfortunately, the inverted vee that holds the saddle, is also very
worn and so the saddle moves crosswise when I move it along the
lathe. I think that it is because the the vee wear. The difference in
diameter at various points is perhaps 0.2mm.

I love the mix of units. Do you work for nasa?

Ignoramus19342 wrote:
On 2008-09-17, Jon Elson wrote:

I did the same, although I ground the bed myself. I must say, the
result was spectacular, and I can cut stuff effortlessly that would have
been impossible on a lighter lathe in the home shop class like an Atlas.

Grinding aside, how much time (hours) did it take you?

Just for completeness, the grinding took some 22 months of part-time
work. I started out not having the right tools to measure flatness of a
6 foot bed, and not really knowing what I was doing, either. I hours, I
have no idea, but probably several hundred.

There were other issues that required some backtracking, figuring out
who manufactured a part and how to get a replacement, etc. I bought the
wrong oil metering orifices first, and then found out how to get the
right ones. A gear was broken in the QC box, and after being quoted
$475 by the receivers of Sheldon to make one, I brazed the tooth back on
myself.

What I think you were interested in was the Moglice casting. You can
get the book on Moglice free for the asking from Devitt Machinery's web
page. Very interesting, lots of pictures. I bought mold release agent,
de-greaser and wax for molded-in oil grooves with the Moglice. I
drilled and tapped 10-32 holes in the saddle for 4 brass-tipped set
screws to perch the saddle on the reference surfaces of the bed. Also 4
more to align the saddle to the front and back of the bed. I laid a
hardened and ground shaft in the Vee of the cross slide and used a dial
indicator on an arm in the chuck to make sure the carriage was precisely
perpendicular to the spindle axis of rotation. I then backed off the
rear set screws and turned the carriage over. I put the wavy thin wax
strips on the bed and then sprayed 3 coats of mold release agent on the
bed. I had already degreased the carriage, so I just started globbing
the Moglice putty on and smearing at around. When it looked like enough
I turned the carriage over and eased it down onto the bed, then
tightened the setscrews I had backed off before. 24 hours later, I
backed off the setscrews again, then used the vertical ones to pop the
carriage free. I hadn't used enough Moglice, so I had to add some more
to fill in some big bubbles and get it to contact all the way to the end
of the saddle. I made it too thick (I did not machine the saddle, as I
had no idea how much wear had ocurred on it) so the apron would bind up
if clamped to the saddle. I scraped the Moglice down (which is really
easy, it is much softer than cast iron, although abrasive) until the
apron fits pretty well. I still have a .010" shim between the carriage
and apron.

All of this took maybe 2 weekends of work.
I do believe that aside from bed wear, there are no big issues with
this lathe.

Make sure your lube system is working properly. If it is a single point
lube system, you likely should replace the metering orifices. That is
what wrecked my lathe (I think).
Also, I think that I should avoid grinding the tailstock ways, and
grind only the sddle ways. The tailstock ways, look "like new" across
the whole lathe.

I think so. Other than sag due to flame hardening, they should be fine.
But, then the person who grinds the bed must make sure the saddle ways
are PERFECTLY parallel to the tailstock ways.


That's a good point. Anyway, my lathe bed is induction hardened. Don't
know if that is any better, wrt warping of the bed.

My guess is that it includes heating, then rapid cooling of the top
layer of the ways, so the effect is likely the same. Depending on the
overall stiffness of the bed vs the depth of the treatment, you may have
more or less warpage.


Jon

On 2008-09-17, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Setting up a lathe is not high tech. You must be careful, keep everything
spotlessly clean and make multiple measurements with every step. Regrinding
the bed of a lathe rarely produces increased accuracy, but what it does do
is allow tight carraige adjustments which reduces chatter and adds overall
machine stiffness. This increases consistancy making every step more
repeatable. A worn out, loose lathe is capable of accuracy, but takes a lot
of patience and experience to do that. When you service a lathe bed, every
surface on the bed should be remachined to original specs. Any attempt to do
otherwise is a waste of money. For those folks that have never done this,
let me assure you that lathe beds look massive and enormously stiff, but
they are not. They can and do bend and twist quite easily. That is why the
bed leveling operation is so critical. Please do not misunderstand that
statement, a level lathe is NOT important. They are quite successfully
installed on ships. What is important, is bed straightness and reference to
a water level is nothing more that a common base line reference. All lathe
beds will twist with the weight of the carraige simply sliding across them.
A lathe carraige is not balanced. It is much heavier on the apron side and
when moved to the center between bed supports, will exert a twist as much as
.004" worst case. Contrary to popular opinion, this will not cause an
observable change to the dimensions of the cut because the position change
of the tool rotates about the bed center. This is the reason a worn bed does
not cause inaccuracy.

Steve, thanks. I saved your post. I think that my issue is not so much
the worn surface of the bed itself, as it is very worn "inverted vee",
which makes the carriage move sideways as it moves along the bed.

My plan, for now, is this:

1) Set the lathe correctly so that the bed is properly level.
2) Buy, borrow or steal a test bar
3) Measure everything and check with this group again
4) If numbers warrant, take the bed for re-grinding.

Head alignment does effect the lathe's accuracy. It is critical, so getting
the spindle line parallel to the lathe bed is the second step in setting up
a lathe. That is why a precision test bar is so important, because it easily
shows these position errors. Every spindle comes with a precisionly ground
inside cone. Typically it is a morse taper and the test bar seats there and
provides a spindle extension on which a simple dial indicator is placed. The
top of the bar has a ground flat which is positioned during testing,
parallel to the bed. Observed deviation is vertical head misalignment. When
the indicator is positioned 90 degrees away at the horizontal center any
deviation along the bar's length indicates horizontal deviation. This
deviation can be compensated with shims under the headstock.

These statements are verifyable with two tools, a precision machine level
and a test bar and if you don't have access to them, get access or buy them.
These are necessary to install a lathe, let alone repair one.

I have a Starrett 98 precision level, but not a test bar. I will look
for one now.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On 2008-09-18, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:12:23 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus19342
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:15:58 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus14986
scrolled the following:

On 2008-09-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:
I am ending my ebay selling soon, so I will have some more time.

Care to share why?

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I went to submit feedback for a book yesterday and it kept prompting
me for more info. I then realized that they had a one hundred
character minimum (vs. their old 78 character maximum) and are now
calling these "reviews" instead of feedback.

Methinks eBay wants to do away with the entire feedback system. sigh


I think that eBay is digging its own grave, by trying to become what
it could never be, and in the process, losing what it always has been
good at.

PRECISELY! And it's all driven by greed at the top. They'll get what
they deserve sometime soon, and we'll all suffer for it.

Yes, very sad, a bunch of greedy people who have no idea what they are
doing, ruining the good thing that ebay once was.

I've found all sorts of -outrageous- bargains there for 8 years now,
my first being in November of 1999, especially used books. Lots of 40
books for $24 delivered is just some kind of wonderful, Maynard.

same here.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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On 2008-09-18, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus19342 wrote:
On 2008-09-17, Jon Elson wrote:

I did the same, although I ground the bed myself. I must say, the
result was spectacular, and I can cut stuff effortlessly that would have
been impossible on a lighter lathe in the home shop class like an Atlas.

Grinding aside, how much time (hours) did it take you?

Just for completeness, the grinding took some 22 months of part-time
work. I started out not having the right tools to measure flatness of a
6 foot bed, and not really knowing what I was doing, either. I hours, I
have no idea, but probably several hundred.

Since I would not want to spend as much time, and likely would screw
it up even further, I will just take the bed out for regrinding.

What I think you were interested in was the Moglice casting.

yes

You can get the book on Moglice free for the asking from Devitt
Machinery's web page.

I just spoke to them, and downloaded it and am printing it. I spoke to
their tech guy Bruce and they are very wiling to be helpful.

Very interesting, lots of pictures. I bought mold release agent,
de-greaser and wax for molded-in oil grooves with the Moglice. I
drilled and tapped 10-32 holes in the saddle for 4 brass-tipped set
screws to perch the saddle on the reference surfaces of the bed.
Also 4 more to align the saddle to the front and back of the bed. I
laid a hardened and ground shaft in the Vee of the cross slide and
used a dial indicator on an arm in the chuck to make sure the
carriage was precisely perpendicular to the spindle axis of
rotation. I then backed off the rear set screws and turned the
carriage over. I put the wavy thin wax strips on the bed and then
sprayed 3 coats of mold release agent on the bed. I had already
degreased the carriage, so I just started globbing the Moglice putty
on and smearing at around. When it looked like enough I turned the
carriage over and eased it down onto the bed, then tightened the
setscrews I had backed off before. 24 hours later, I backed off the
setscrews again, then used the vertical ones to pop the carriage
free. I hadn't used enough Moglice, so I had to add some more to
fill in some big bubbles and get it to contact all the way to the
end of the saddle. I made it too thick (I did not machine the
saddle, as I had no idea how much wear had ocurred on it) so the
apron would bind up if clamped to the saddle. I scraped the Moglice
down (which is really easy, it is much softer than cast iron,
although abrasive) until the apron fits pretty well. I still have a
.010" shim between the carriage and apron.

Seems fairly understandable.

All of this took maybe 2 weekends of work.
I do believe that aside from bed wear, there are no big issues with
this lathe.

Make sure your lube system is working properly. If it is a single point
lube system, you likely should replace the metering orifices. That is
what wrecked my lathe (I think).
Also, I think that I should avoid grinding the tailstock ways, and
grind only the sddle ways. The tailstock ways, look "like new" across
the whole lathe.

I think so. Other than sag due to flame hardening, they should be fine.
But, then the person who grinds the bed must make sure the saddle ways
are PERFECTLY parallel to the tailstock ways.


That's a good point. Anyway, my lathe bed is induction hardened. Don't
know if that is any better, wrt warping of the bed.

My guess is that it includes heating, then rapid cooling of the top
layer of the ways, so the effect is likely the same. Depending on the
overall stiffness of the bed vs the depth of the treatment, you may have
more or less warpage.

OK. I think that I am on track. I will try to start leveling it this
weekend, to make sure that I am measuring something that should be
measured. Will go from there.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus11155" wrote in message
...
snip

I have a Starrett 98 precision level, but not a test bar. I will look
for one now.

Igor - I have a Starrett #199 level in good shape that you can borrow for a
week or two. Email me at this address if you are interested.

Mike

Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I have just noticed this too. The new eBay search system is dreadful. If
you want to add any special options, such as "Item Condition: Used" it's
now really difficult to find them. As far as I can see, the new search
system hasn't added anything useful. It has just made finding items to
buy harder.

I also hate those little pop-up windows which aren't proper windows
which they've introduced. I think they're probably implemented with
JavaScript. If they had thought their interface through, they wouldn't
have needed any of those windows.

Best wishes,

Chris

On 2008-10-10, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Ignoramus14986 wrote:

I do not like the latest ebay changes. I have way too much stuff to
sell, so I will be selling for a few months without buying anything
new.

I have just noticed this too. The new eBay search system is dreadful. If
you want to add any special options, such as "Item Condition: Used" it's
now really difficult to find them. As far as I can see, the new search
system hasn't added anything useful. It has just made finding items to
buy harder.

Yep.

I also hate those little pop-up windows which aren't proper windows
which they've introduced. I think they're probably implemented with
JavaScript.

They are. Turn off JavaScript, and they go away -- but
unfortunately, so does other *needed* functionality.

And I really hate the auctions which also require Flash to be
enabled to see the images (other than one default image).

If they had thought their interface through, they wouldn't
have needed any of those windows.

They want to be "impressive", not useful. :-(

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Yep.


I also hate those little pop-up windows which aren't proper windows
which they've introduced. I think they're probably implemented with
JavaScript.


They are. Turn off JavaScript, and they go away -- but
unfortunately, so does other *needed* functionality.

And I really hate the auctions which also require Flash to be
enabled to see the images (other than one default image).

The vast majority of things for which Flash is used are totally
pointless. Playing video online is an arguable exception, although it
should be noted that most videos published online are pointless.

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

If they had thought their interface through, they wouldn't
have needed any of those windows.


They want to be "impressive", not useful. :-(

They appear to be forgetting that people go to eBay to buy stuff, not to
admire the latest trends in web design.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Yep.


I also hate those little pop-up windows which aren't proper windows
which they've introduced. I think they're probably implemented with
JavaScript.


They are. Turn off JavaScript, and they go away -- but
unfortunately, so does other *needed* functionality.

And I really hate the auctions which also require Flash to be
enabled to see the images (other than one default image).

The vast majority of things for which Flash is used are totally
pointless. Playing video online is an arguable exception, although it
should be noted that most videos published online are pointless.

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

--
"Given the low level of competence among politicians,
every American should become a Libertarian."
-- Charley Reese, Alameda Times-Star (California), June 17, 2003

On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

Hmm ... what browser are you using? I'm using Opera, which
allows you to set preferences on a site-by-site basis (after turning off
a lot of things as the default). Among other things, the sub-menu for
controlling scripting (aside from just turning on and off JavaScript
itself) includes:

================================================== ====================
[] Enable JavaScript

[] Allow moving and resizing of windows

[] Allow changing of status field

[] Allow script to receive right clicks

[] Allow script to hide address bar

[] Open Console on error

User JavaScript files

[________________________________________] [Choose]
================================================== ====================

Aside from a separate menu which allow turning on or off Flash (plugins),
Java, Content Blocking, and Animated Images

And one which allows selecting which brower your brower tells sites that
it is. :-)

It is free -- and it is a fast browser.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 11 Oct 2008 22:04:39 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:

On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

Hmm ... what browser are you using? I'm using Opera, which
allows you to set preferences on a site-by-site basis (after turning off
a lot of things as the default). Among other things, the sub-menu for
controlling scripting (aside from just turning on and off JavaScript
itself) includes:

I have Javascript and Java turned on. The above link kills HTML
keyboard characteristics in both Firefox 2 (my main browser) and MS
Internet Exploder 7 (which I only use for Netflix because Netflix
isn't sophisticated enough to work with the better browser.) Feh!


It is free -- and it is a fast browser.

I thought the free version of Opera had beaucoup integrated
advertisements. The earlier versions did, and I nuked it because of
that.

--
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without
hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.
-- George Sand

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:


DoN. Nichols wrote:


Yep.



I also hate those little pop-up windows which aren't proper windows
which they've introduced. I think they're probably implemented with
JavaScript.


They are. Turn off JavaScript, and they go away -- but
unfortunately, so does other *needed* functionality.

And I really hate the auctions which also require Flash to be
enabled to see the images (other than one default image).

The vast majority of things for which Flash is used are totally
pointless. Playing video online is an arguable exception, although it
should be noted that most videos published online are pointless.

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm


I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

I never knew the space bar did that. I've always used "Page Down" and
"Page Up".

I just figured out that backspace does the opposite, too. Cool!

Chris

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:


[ ... ]


I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!


Hmm ... what browser are you using? I'm using Opera, which
allows you to set preferences on a site-by-site basis (after turning off
a lot of things as the default). Among other things, the sub-menu for
controlling scripting (aside from just turning on and off JavaScript
itself) includes:

================================================== ====================
[] Enable JavaScript

Dare I also suggest that many (possibly most) of the things for which
JavaScript is used could better be achieved in other ways?

It's not in the same category as Flash, but it is used excessively and
often makes browsing the web slower.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:21:46 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

snip
I thought the free version of Opera had beaucoup integrated
advertisements. The earlier versions did, and I nuked it because of
that.

Have you been in a cave for the past 3-4 years maybe? Opera
lost the advertisements around that long ago ;-)

You really should get out more Larry. Maybe you have been
spending too much time perusing Usenet groups...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2008-10-12, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On 11 Oct 2008 22:04:39 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:

On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]

I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm

Having now checked it out (after verifying that I could
traceroute to the site, since I have a lot of .br blocked), I agree.
There was absolutely nothing in there which should require Flash to
display. Plain HTML would suffice for the while thing.

And this is the first site which I have found which required
Flash, but did *not* require JavaScript at the same time.

But what in the world is an English-language only lens review
doing in a site in Brazil?

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

And that seems to happen when Flash starts.

Hmm ... what browser are you using? I'm using Opera, which
allows you to set preferences on a site-by-site basis (after turning off
a lot of things as the default). Among other things, the sub-menu for
controlling scripting (aside from just turning on and off JavaScript
itself) includes:

I have Javascript and Java turned on. The above link kills HTML
keyboard characteristics in both Firefox 2 (my main browser) and MS
Internet Exploder 7 (which I only use for Netflix because Netflix
isn't sophisticated enough to work with the better browser.) Feh!

:-)

I wonder whether it would work with Opera if I turned on either
"Identify as Explorer" or "Mask as Explorer". (I'm not sure what the
distinction is, but both are there.)


It is free -- and it is a fast browser.

I thought the free version of Opera had beaucoup integrated
advertisements. The earlier versions did, and I nuked it because of
that.

That was some time ago. They long ago went to fully free for
everyone, with no ads.

With the early versions -- you could select remove (and thus
variable) ads, or compiled-in ads (a much smaller list), and since I
sometimes used it purely for local access, I went for the compiled-in
ones because it took forever to start up while it was vainly trying to
access remote ads.

I think that they make their money off other products now.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-10-12, Christopher Tidy wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... what browser are you using? I'm using Opera, which
allows you to set preferences on a site-by-site basis (after turning off
a lot of things as the default). Among other things, the sub-menu for
controlling scripting (aside from just turning on and off JavaScript
itself) includes:

================================================== ====================
[] Enable JavaScript

Dare I also suggest that many (possibly most) of the things for which
JavaScript is used could better be achieved in other ways?

I agree totally. That is why JavaScript is turned off by
default on my browser -- and only turned on if *I* decide that what is
there might be worth the risk.

It's not in the same category as Flash, but it is used excessively and
often makes browsing the web slower.

And one of the major offenders is eBay.

But for a while a web comic ("The Mows" about cats) could *only*
be viewed with Flash and JavaScript enabled. Thank goodness that they
have stopped that. I couldn't find a way to e-mail the author (who was
trying to push his Flash skills to potential purchasers -- and
eliminating a certain percentage of his audience).

And -- of course -- Flash keeps getting updated, requiring a
newer plugin -- and the availability of the newer plugin for systems
like Solaris on SPARC systems is well delayed after the introduction of
the new Flash and the new plugins for Windows (and perhaps the Mac).

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 12 Oct 2008 20:00:46 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

snip
I wonder whether it would work with Opera if I turned on either
"Identify as Explorer" or "Mask as Explorer". (I'm not sure what the
distinction is, but both are there.)
snip


"Identify as Explorer" still has Opera in the ID. It will
fool many sites though. "Mask as Explorer" removes all
traces of Opera from the browser ID. You can only set the
latter individually for each site. The first Identify choice
can be set globally until you change it to something else.

Even if you set Opera to "Mask as Explorer" there are other
ways a site can still figure out that you are using Opera if
it tries hard enough. The only surefire way is to use a
local proxy to change the string.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-10-12, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On 11 Oct 2008 22:04:39 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:


On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]


I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm


Having now checked it out (after verifying that I could
traceroute to the site, since I have a lot of .br blocked), I agree.
There was absolutely nothing in there which should require Flash to
display. Plain HTML would suffice for the while thing.

And this is the first site which I have found which required
Flash, but did *not* require JavaScript at the same time.

But what in the world is an English-language only lens review
doing in a site in Brazil?

It's plain weird. I can only think that the guy got a piece of free
software which makes web pages using Flash. Otherwise, it makes no sense.

Still, I shouldn't be too hard on the guy. We all have to start somewhere.

Best wishes,

Chris

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-10-12, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On 11 Oct 2008 22:04:39 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:


On 2008-10-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:04:56 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]


I came across this abominable piece of web design yesterday. A truly
gratuitous use for Flash:
http://www.rbfotografia.com.br/avali...05_1.8en_1.htm


Having now checked it out (after verifying that I could
traceroute to the site, since I have a lot of .br blocked), I agree.
There was absolutely nothing in there which should require Flash to
display. Plain HTML would suffice for the while thing.

And this is the first site which I have found which required
Flash, but did *not* require JavaScript at the same time.

But what in the world is an English-language only lens review
doing in a site in Brazil?

His images also need a touch of sharpening after resizing.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:15:30 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

I never knew the space bar did that. I've always used "Page Down" and
"Page Up".

I just figured out that backspace does the opposite, too. Cool!

Hmm, it doesn't for me in Firefox. Backspace on a second or further
page acts as a back button in the browser.

I love keyboard shortcuts and use every one I can find. I've been
doing that since moving up to Micro$oft Windows 3.0 from DOS.

And since I use a Logitech Portable Trackman trackball, I don't have a
wheel for paging up and down. I can use this thing in my lap, on an
chair arm, etc. It's truly portable with the thumb-activated ball.
http://tinyurl.com/3vewba or the IBM versions I found for $3 apiece
the last time I needed a new one http://tinyurl.com/4xz96x . No more
carpal problems or knotted levator!


--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:35:28 -0400, the infamous Leon Fisk
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:21:46 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

snip
I thought the free version of Opera had beaucoup integrated
advertisements. The earlier versions did, and I nuked it because of
that.

Have you been in a cave for the past 3-4 years maybe? Opera
lost the advertisements around that long ago ;-)

I fell in love with Mozilla and stopped looking around at other
browsers. So sue me.


You really should get out more Larry. Maybe you have been
spending too much time perusing Usenet groups...

Verily, Leon. vbg

--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:00:36 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:15:30 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

I never knew the space bar did that. I've always used "Page Down" and
"Page Up".

I just figured out that backspace does the opposite, too. Cool!


Hmm, it doesn't for me in Firefox. Backspace on a second or further
page acts as a back button in the browser.

Well it does on Firefox 2.0.0.3 for Solaris SPARC, which is what I'm using.

Windows XP Home/FF 2.0.0.17 here. Does anyone else on a different
platform find different behavior? Please pipe up.

--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:15:30 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I get REALLY ****ed off when someone takes my spacebar 'page down'
away from me. Grrrrrrr!

I never knew the space bar did that. I've always used "Page Down" and
"Page Up".

I just figured out that backspace does the opposite, too. Cool!


Hmm, it doesn't for me in Firefox. Backspace on a second or further
page acts as a back button in the browser.

Well it does on Firefox 2.0.0.3 for Solaris SPARC, which is what I'm using.

Chris